Syrian Rue extract for tryptamine potentiation. Is this extraction good enough?

[AlphaOdure]

Plan on having some harmala extract/"tea" around to potentiate tryptamine trips, particularly 1P-LSD i have coming on the way. I do have some yopo, which i've experimented w/ & didn't like, & heard even worse reports w/ oral yopo+MAOI.

So basically i've been trying to extract harmala from syrian rue using this simple method & want to make sure i'm getting harmala... before being bitched at; i'm aware of all the different techniques online but i'm so chemistry disinclined I used this simple method (which was somewhat mentioned as an adequate way to extract in one technique).

• I take a predetermined dosage of Syrian rue (in this case 3/4 tablespoon spoon)
• Place in coffee mug with some vinegar to make it acidic.. around 5mL, along w/5mL water
• place coffee mug directly on stove top on lowest heat setting for about 30min & stir a few times (steaming, but should i let it come to a boil?).
• use coffee filter to filter seeds out, pouring aqueous solution into New cup.
• filter 5-10mL water through left over seeds into another mug; adding 5mL of water & 5mL vineager to replace evaporated shit.. (again, on low heat- just before boil; steams a but i don't let it boil.. should i boil? boil or not to boil? lol)
• repeat this 4x total w/final solution yellow and seeds discarded.

SO-
Is this adequate for a harmala Extraction? And bc of evaporation.. I basically add 5mL of vinegar during each stage w/same amount of water. is this too much? is this necessary? not enough vinegar?? etc

I've already tried this & consumed via plugging prior to plugging yopo as i read this would be effective but didn't notice much difference after 15-20min, so i snuffed only 1 seed & got the effects of about 3-4 seeds. Only problem is, i usually pass out after the experience, but i think the harmala kept me up. took a shit ton of clonazepam & nifoxipam to knock me out.

Soo is my method working or am I doing something wrong here? b/c i plan on taking it orally to potentiate other tryptamine trips as said. And also, quick question, why is it that MAOIs can't be used w/ more pure-psychedelic phenethylamines?? I understand w/ perhaps MDMA & other stimulants may cause a hypertensive crisis.. but why does it matter w/ the more psychedelic phens? Was just curious b/c i have a small amount of bk-2c-b & would be nice to have something to potentiate it?

ANYWAY comments? suggestions? Any advice on my technique are welcome..! Please! Especially the vinegar & how much i should be adding? (basically adding 20mL over full process, but i'm sure a lot gets evaporated off)

 

[Solipsis]

Harmala alkaloids are afaik RIMA's, they inhibit MAO-A. Tryptamines are broken down by MAO-A so inhibiting the enzyme potentiates tryptamines. Lysergamides are not tryptamines but it apparently works in a similar way. I wouldn't recommend it though, I think it is pretty unpredictable and asking for problems.

You cannot or should not attempt the same potentiation for phenethylamines. Those are apparently metabolized by MAO-B. I don't know if MAO-B inhibitors are an option to potentiate phenethylamines but it could be risky. The mechanism of action of bk-2C-B is not really well understood or known afaik (the possible secondary actions besides serotonergic agonism), so I would not try to potentiate it - may be unsafe.

Don't use harmala with yopo or vilca or cebil IMO. Quite often they get mixed up, and even besides that unclarity bufotenin or associated impurities has side-effects that make it seem unsafe to potentiate, and 5-MeO-DMT is known to be physically dangerous to potentiate with MAOIs.

I haven't extracted syrian rue myself, have you checked the DMT nexus? They should have a decent extraction tek for you to follow.
Personally I have only potentiated mushrooms with syrian rue, and it was an extreme feeling for me. Like continuously going up a looping in a rollercoaster, nice and intense for a bit but way too intense to feel continuously. Felt boundless and unimpeded which scared me. Did feel very earthy and spiritual and I did have visions, but it's not for me.

 

[Humble Bumble]

If you want to do an extraction, The Tao of Rue method on the dmt-nexus is a good one:
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/The_Tao_of_Rue_Extraction
(some more) https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Category:Extraction_Tek#HARMALAS

It's a lot of work (a lot of filtering) but it's worth it if you would want to experiment with pure (pure-ish depending on effort) harmalas; and you don't need to be a chemist either- just see it as cooking.

I think the extraction you're doing now is not very efficient; could use a little more heat, boiling is ok.
I don't know how much syrian rue you have but extractions are more efficient with larger quantities.

Here's a recipe if you're in for a fun first experiment

I would suggest you use a pan instead of a coffee mug, and a little more water, maybe 400 ml - half a liter per boil, (and vinegar generously added, I feel you can't really overdo it- unless you want to drink the stuff).
Boil about four tablespoons of syrian rue seeds for half an hour or so. Not too high, but the harmala alkaloids can take some heat, and you want enough water to evaporate that you're left with a manageable amount. (say 100 - 150 ml)
Pour the water off through a filter, collect your seeds and boil them again for about half an hour, Do this three times total.
Collect the water from all your boils, filter it, and reduce it some more, until you're left with about 100 ml. Filter that again.
Dissolve sodium carbonate (washing soda)* in hot water until it's saturated.
Carefully pour some of that in your syrian rue soup (make sure to put it in a see-through container, like a drinking glass) and see what happens.

* actually sodium hydroxide, or lye, works better but you'd have to do additional steps to make sure there's no lye in your final extract so we won't be using that now- also don't want to burn our eyeballs out for a fun first experiment

 

[AlphaOdure]

I haven't extracted syrian rue myself, have you checked the DMT nexus? They should have a decent extraction tek for you to follow.
Personally I have only potentiated mushrooms with syrian rue, and it was an extreme feeling for me. Like continuously going up a looping in a rollercoaster, nice and intense for a bit but way too intense to feel continuously. Felt boundless and unimpeded which scared me. Did feel very earthy and spiritual and I did have visions, but it's not for me.

How did you do utilize your syrian rue w/ your mushrooms? Did you just eat them whole? I hear this is pretty disadvantageous due to extra & unwanted alkaloids in the whole seed that can cause a wide range of unwanted side effects.

And yes, i poked around at dmt-nexus, given my limited access to solvents (funds related) some weren't possible. Others weren't clear enough as far as ratios are concerned.

(btw- for those ever trying an extraction, a coffee grinder works much better than a mortar & pestle.

Don't use harmala with yopo or vilca or cebil IMO. Quite often they get mixed up, and even besides that unclarity bufotenin or associated impurities has side-effects that make it seem unsafe to potentiate, and 5-MeO-DMT is known to be physically dangerous to potentiate with MAOIs.

Well the shroomery had a post touting YOPO activity using rectal administration, even w/o MAOIs. I tried this, no effect. So figured utilizing an MAOI may help in that situation. But still didn't.. perhaps some tryptamine-like perceptual changes, but thats about it. It did allow to use about 1/4 my usual yopo dose to get similar effects. However, i needed an assload of extra benzos to sleep as the harmala kept me awake--a known side effect (since i usually pass out after yopo)

 

[AlphaOdure]

I think the extraction you're doing now is not very efficient; could use a little more heat, boiling is ok.
I don't know how much syrian rue you have but extractions are more efficient with larger quantities.

Here's a recipe if you're in for a fun first experiment

I haven't looked at your links yet, but your method seems easy enough. Its basically what I did aside from using too little heat. Reason i used coffee mugs was b/c I only wanted to extract one dose worth (roughly 3/4 tbl spoon).. i have an ounce of seeds though. But didn't want to try anything & mess it up, losing all my seeds.

But perhaps i'll get it over with & just do an extraction w/ the remainder of my seeds.

And i'd likely just use sodium carbonate since it can easily be made by cooking sodium bicarbonate at 200 degrees for about an hour. I have sodium hydroxide but its mixed in w/ a bunch of other crap (its in a hydrated lime product)

Dissolve sodium carbonate (washing soda)* in hot water until it's saturated.
Carefully pour some of that in your syrian rue soup (make sure to put it in a see-through container, like a drinking glass) and see what happens.

Well don't make me guess? lol... what is the purpose of this?

Boil about four tablespoons of syrian rue seeds for half an hour or so. Not too high, but the harmala alkaloids can take some heat, and you want enough water to evaporate that you're left with a manageable amount. (say 100 - 150 ml)

Then after readd half a liter or 400mL back to the solution, or bring the solution back to a total of 400-500mL? And what would be the best way of checking how many mL you have left? just using a traditional measuring cup?

Also, could you at least give me a ballpark estimate of vinegar?? lol.. i mean, should i make up half the 400mL of water w/ acetic acid? or did you mean add vinegar to this amount of water? & should i add vinegar after each filtration/boil? as doesn't sme of it boil off? Any ballpark suggestions as to how much?

 

[Humble Bumble]

If you have only an ounce of seeds then that doesn't give you much room for experimentation & it would be more economic to make tea I think.

I wrote up that recipe to show how easy it would be to extract some crude freebase harmala crystals from your tea; if you put the sodium carbonate in the tea they should promptly fall out of solution , very cool reaction to watch- your solution turns from brown to white instantly (the only reason really I said to use a see-through container. )

When you're doing an extraction I would say use 3 parts water, one part vinegar for each boil. Like I said it's much like cooking, a measuring cup does come in handy, but it doesn't come down to the ml. Coffee mugs work just as well so three mugs of water and one mug of vinegar.


If you make a tea I wouldn't use vinegar but citric acid/ lemon juice instead, or even no acid at all. Unless you enjoy the taste of strong vinegar. Use a little more water, 5 ml is too little (got to allow space for the alkaloids), maybe use two coffee mugs of water for every boil (plus a third of a mug of acid if you use any, (lemon juice)) , and let that simmer on a low fire until it's boiled down to about half a mug. Collect your three boils and reduce it further to something you can physically gulp down.

I haven't had syrian rue tea but I don't mind the taste of the seeds and I like to just chew teaspoons of them for a while, I don't get nauseated but I hear some people do indeed experience side effects. (You mentioned unwanted alkaloids but some of these are actually quite interesting and possibly positive, health-wise - unless you're a pregnant woman, then I'd avoid whole syrian rue extracts)

 

[Solipsis]

How did you do utilize your syrian rue w/ your mushrooms? Did you just eat them whole? I hear this is pretty disadvantageous due to extra & unwanted alkaloids in the whole seed that can cause a wide range of unwanted side effects.

Yes whole seed, although not whole per se - a hammer was applied IIRC, yeah I know not subtle but I had no access to other tools.

Side-effects were not really my problem. I'm pretty sure that my trip was just a result of the MAOI potentiated mushrooms, what I described above about the subjective feeling is completely in line with how that potentiation works.

assload

no pun intended?

just kidding, I've occasionally tried plugging a compound - like 2C-B and MDMA which aren't so great to snort.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Well i was actually planning on plugging the resulting solution to avoid the taste? Since i've gave up IV'ing... i've taken to this new ROA like a novelty so-to-speak; a kid in a candy store! I always used to be soo squeemish being a straight, heterosexual male..but really,a 5ml oral syringe nicely lubed is nothing.. & ya get kinda used to the prepping and all almost like you do w/ prepping your rig! Although obviously w/o somewhat less intensity lol.

So after each boil down how (assuming i'd use roughly ~1 mug for each of my 3 parts). i should be down to roughly half a mugs worth of solution w/ syrian rue sludge in it... repeat this process what..3-4x?

until the final boil down? half a mug's worth... discard seeds...

And would vinegar vs. lemon juice really make any difference is my planned ROA is plugging?

and whats w/ the sodium carbonate & harmala crystals? can i do anything w/ that? like use them instead of the tea? or is this just for show? heh heh

 

[AlphaOdure]

Also- how much sodium carbonate do i roughly need?

 

[Humble Bumble]

I never thought of plugging syrian rue tea, should work fine I guess. It's a good roa but I don't know if you would want to use so much vinegar when you plug your tea, I'm not sure how your colon reacts to a lot of acid. Same goes for lemon juice but again, not something I know anything about. Maybe it's no problem at all, maybe it stings a little I don't know

***
about the chemistry stuff
I f you add the solution of sodium carbonate to a syrian rue tea you'll see it becomes milky, and if you wait for a while you'll find a layer of brown stuff has settled on the bottom; if you filter that and let it dry you have some (depending on how much syrian rue you used) really crude harmala crystals. Those would be really, really crude and with lots of impurities but you could use them, put them in gelcaps or smoke them, plug them, or put them in a glass of orange juice and drink them down.

it was just for show, as an experiment to show you how easy the basis of the extraction process actually is, and to lure you into becoming an exthusiast: )I found the harmalas I extracted such a nice way to experiment with the effects of syrian rue that I never bothered for any other method (except from occasionally chewing the seeds).

To remove the impurities and get beautiful white and pure harmala crystals you would have to do some additional steps, as described in the dmt-nexus link above. But a proper extraction is a lot of work that's probably worth its while more when you have more seeds to spare.

So after each boil down how (assuming i'd use roughly ~1 mug for each of my 3 parts). i should be down to roughly half a mugs worth of solution w/ syrian rue sludge in it... repeat this process what..3-4x?

repeat three or four times yes, four makes your final tea a little bit stronger but it takes longer to do four boils than three so that's up to you : )

Also- how much sodium carbonate do i roughly need?

If you were to do an extraction, you can just make a saturated solution by putting a teaspoon of soda in hot water, swirling it around until it's fully dissolved, then adding more soda, repeating until the soda won't dissolve anymore, and then you could add that slowly to your syrian rue brew until it stops changing color.
You don't need a lot.
btw I have to stress for hr sake that after adding the sodium carbonate to your tea you can't drink it anymore

 

[AlphaOdure]

maybe use two coffee mugs of water for every boil (plus a third of a mug of acid if you use any, (lemon juice)) , and let that simmer on a low fire until it's boiled down to about half a mug.

Question- as i'm not a very good cook (and just started the process this morning)... how can i tell when i've boiled it down to "half a mug"? or roughly ~120-140mL? Just by eye balling it (from experience)? I do have a measuring cup i can just pour it into to see where i'm at i suppose? heh

But what, if any, disadvantages would there be to over boiling? i.e., boiling down lower than roughly 120-140mL? (OR half a coffee mug)

I never thought of plugging syrian rue tea, should work fine I guess. It's a good roa but I don't know if you would want to use so much vinegar when you plug your tea, I'm not sure how your colon reacts to a lot of acid

Its not too rough, i use it for MXP...usually up to about 15mL.. gives ya little bit of a cramp; & you definitely have to poop out some brown sludge 12 hours later lol. But i don't abuse MXP like some do, so i'd imgine i'm not damaging my colon too badly (have only used acetic acid via plugging on 3 occasions- 2x for MXP & once for my crude, un thought out syrinan rue extract)

 

[Humble Bumble]

Don't overthink it, you're making tea, not splitting atoms
Yeah just eyeball/estimate it, practice makes perfect, just make sure it doesn't boil dry and that you're left with a comfortable amount of liquid in the end.

Good luck!

 

[AlphaOdure]

yup i'm towards the end of my 2nd boil now thanks for all your help.

but it just occurred to me...

about how many doses is this going to give me (180lb 6'0" charming & dashingly handsome, yet heterosexual, naturally jet back hair male )

& i'm only doing the filtration the very end on the 4th boil correct? obviously?

 

[Humble Bumble]

about how many doses is this going to give me (180lb 6'0" charming & handsome, yet heterosexual, naturally jet back hair male )

That depends on how many seeds you start with, if one tablespoon of seeds is your desired dose and you brew 10 tablespoons for example, your tea will have ten doses and to take one dose you'd take one tenth of the amount of tea you made. That's how it works for the dashingly handsome and the appallingly ugly alike

For the filtering I would go about like this
Carefully pour off the leftover liquid after each boil, make sure as much of the seeds as possible stay behind in your pan.
Then after the fourth boil, collect the leftover water from the four boils, pour that together in a container. Anything that holds your liquid will do as a container, but it's best to use glass because you can see when all the residue has settled on the bottom, and when it has you can
[*] carefully pour the liquid off, leaving the residue behind, so that you'll end up with a clear brew that you can reduce further by boiling if you like.

At
[*] above, it can be hard to get the last bit of liquid without stirring the residue, you could pour out as much as you can and then pour the last bit and the residue through a filter. I've noticed quite a lot of the crystals stay behind in the paper, and this way you'll only use one filter.

I'm not a very good teacher and I hope I don't make things more confusing but I trust you'll do fine; I wish you good experiments

 

[AlphaOdure]

SOOOOOO i screwed up. I dosed 100mg bk2c-b in 5mL of acetic acid/vinegar which gave me horrible cramps & an enema after about 5-10 min (never had this problem w/ dosing MXP over about 10-15mL? odd? nor w/ dosing my half ass attempt w/my harmala extra in considerable amounts of acetic acid before?) soo... i waas literally on the toilet for an hour & an over burn happened. I frantically poured a lot acid into the solution, some water, filtered...

then did the sodium carbonate thing to see if anything could be salvaged? I did get about 4 solid chunks... is this likely to be any sort of harmala crude extract or just carbonate chunks??

 

[AlphaOdure]

I also screwed up by not saving each extract... i just kept addinig an additional 2 parts water 1 part acetic acid... lol... sheesh how embarrassing of a novice i must seem 8(

i read back through the thread to see that it was conspicuously stated that each extract should be SAVED & combined at the end. w/ each new boil filtered thru w/ JUST the seeds & the acetic acid+water. But silly me in my zeal & rambunctiousness must have overlooked that.

So yea, anyway, a good 15-30 min burn w/ just the seeds (on 4th boil)... i frantically added quite a bit of acetic acid (can't remember how much) & some water & extracted (enough for half a mugs full). Did the sodium carbonate thing & did get about 4 white crystals i saved.. however these are likely just carbonate clumps due to my fuck ups eh? Well, was only 6 bucks worth... may just order again when i get some funds in

Any answers?solutions? recommendations? Is this a total fuck up job or do i have some harmala crystals & tea?

 

[AlphaOdure]

any help? anything salvageable here @Humble Bumble

 

[Humble Bumble]

Yeah sounds like you fucked up sorry : )

Like you said, those crystals are probably chunks of soda. harmala crystals don't look like actual crystals, it's just a powder.

I would throw everything out and start over.
I was going to make a brew myself tonight, take pictures and make an infographic (I'm having fun here) but some friends called and now I'm going for a drink instead: ) Anyway here's the storyboard, it's a bit clearer:

1. grind seeds
2. put seeds in pan
3. add water + vinegar
4. boil for ~30 minutes until ~1/4 of your liquid is left
5. collect liquid, leave seeds in pan
6. repeat steps 3 - 5 three times
7. take combined liquid of your four boils
8. pour off/ filter
9. pour liquid in pan and reduce, by boiling on a low fire, to your desired amount.

et le voila

Sorry to hear about the bk-2c-b experience, that sounds nasty painful... I won't be squirting any vinegar up my ass then
I've only ever used lukewarm water when I plugged (aMT, 2C-D) and that was very comfortable.
I found a good way to take bk-2c-b is to wrap it in some toilet paper, put that in a gelatin capsule and swallow with a lot of orange juice to make sure your stomach has a low enough pH.
Also, just to make sure, I want to chip in with what Solipsis said above and say I have my doubts about the safety of mixing bk-2c-b with MAO inhibitors/ RIMAs like syrian rue (don't know if you were planning on doing that)

I don't know how much syrian rue you have left, if you find more I wouldn't mind explaining/ helping you with the extraction process.

btw 100th post *pop* goes the bottle

 

[AlphaOdure]

nah, no syrian rue left

gonna order another ~30g/ounce though when i get the cash. was only $6 w/ shipping.

No before my enema expeience w/ bk2c-b.. had a HELL of a time taking 140mg sublingually! then swallowed after about 10min.. took a good 1.5-2 hr come up. Was in the shower rubbing all over myself laughing my ass off, watching the wavey/melty visuals.. heh.

But nah i have 100mcg 1p-lsd i plan to combine w/ the remaing 40-50mg of bk2c-b i capped. Unless the 100mcg seems to be to over whelming. Plan on doing this tomorrow night starting at 10ish.

And no, i was only going to use the syrian rue/extract/MAO-a inhibitor IF the 1p-LSD seemed too weak on its own about an hour into the trip (if thats even possible? made a diff thread asking if the MAO-a inhibitor has to be taken prior to trip or not to see if these plans would be moot or not. But didn't get any answers yet.

Think i'll just try the combo, as i've read other good experiences w/ this combination. Tonight? just a little plugged + oral GBP (i SWEAR they must get saturated by diff LATs b/c i got wasted off same amount on the 3rd day in a row of using,when fist day only did oral!) Plus i have one dose of nifoxipaam in some 30mL of isopropyl i'm planning on taking to properly knock me out, along w/ my nightly subutex dose (after the GBP has kicked in).

And damn, well, now that i understand your extract better.. will try again when i can sell some of my extra materials i have laying around. Or if i get hired for my seasonal job? whichever comes first!