Heroin Super Heroin Etorphine

[twentyeggs]

So I have a buddy, yes a real buddy that has 3 vials of 3mg/ml of Etorphine and 1 vial of the antidote. I don't know the name of the antidote. He says they use it in tranquilizer guns to bring down large animals for surgery or medical attention, and then use the antidote as soon as the animal is back in the enclosure and everything is done and ready to go.

So he says this stuff is super strong and that it can kill him if he isn't careful. I went home and looked it up and yup, being 3,000 times more potent than morphine this stuff will kill him. So I called him and told him to throw it away that there is no way it is worth it, but he said, that he's spent well over ten thousand on heroin and if he can find out a way to dose this stuff he basically has a stash that will last him the rest of his drug career and not cost a penny. So he is very motivated to pioneer this shit out.

He's come up with a stupid method but I thought i would run it by you guys to see what you think. He plans to very slowly squeeze out one drop of this stuff from a 1cc insulin syringe onto a spoon. then dilute the drop with a full 1cc rig of water, then he is going to suck that up into a new rig and make that his stash rig. then he is going to squeeze out a single drop of that diluted solution onto a spoon and dilute it further with another full 1cc insulin syringe. and make his first dose 1 drop. He wants to start by putting one drop under his tongue and see what happens. If he feels like he's OD'ing he will use the antidote or naltrexone (he has both) if he doesn't feel anything then he will try another drop. And every hour he doesn't feel good he will double the dose until he can feel something and get a base. Then put that dose up his nose, and finally to IV it.

I realize how stupid and dangerous this is, but he wont listen to me but at the same time i actually understand the value of what he has if he can successfully dose this out. Kinda like a for an opiate user if a Colombian airplane full of heroin crashed 100 yards from your secluded camping site and you manage to stuff it all in your car, get home, and stack up the spare room from floor to ceiling in bricks of amazing chemical bliss. That is basically what he has in a vial.

There isn't much info out there on this stuff. but if anyone here knows enough maths to get a general ballpark safe dose to start out with im all ears. The vial looked to be in a 5ml container and at 3mg/ml he has 15mg of this stuff per vial. And it takes 5-15 mg to take down an elephant.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Respiratory depression will set in extreme fast, so I don't think he'll have enough time to take the antidote(I guess it's diprenorphine?) /naltrexone

Imo it's too strong to even think about taking it. We are talking about nanogram if my math is right. That's impossible to dilute and if there's a hotspot (that's likely gonna happen) he'll more or less drop dead.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Alright, I did some more math and I think he'd need to dilute one drop with around 500-1000ml water.
That's not practical and even a few ml could kill one if not more.

And tell him this: even if he survives it, imo his tolerance will be so high after those 15mg that no normal opioid would do anything, I guess he'd need to take so much of say oxycodone that he'll probably die because if respiratory depression before even feeling it.

His best bet is to somehow bring this stuff back to the Zoo

 

[My3sons]

Definitely an interesting story. Let us know what happens. Sounds like he won't listen to reason. It will end badly one way or another

 

[Nateup]

Christ! He shouldn't "just throw it away"! Imagine the level of pollution

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Sounds both genius and dangerous.

I'd try to find the LD50 of etorphine for humans and work on dilution from there.

My guess is that if 10mg is enough to put down an elephant, 1ug (microgram) should be good to go for a human, but I could be wrong and don't want to kill anyone.

Please be careful and double/triple check your dilution math! Better to start low (i.e. <0.5ug) and titrate up than to accidentally take too much at once.

Crack open your college chemistry book and refamiliarize yourself with molarity/molality in solution, determine etorphines molar mass, etc.

Leave no stone unturned.

 

[tacodude]

It is not safe to take especially if he can't do the math to figure out the microgram dosage 0.001g = 1 mg = 1000 mcg. I'd guess this would use less than 1 mcg if it could even be used without causing intstant death. It would wear off extremely fast like literally an hour and after he kills that stash he will go through hellish withdrawals probably bundles couldn't touch. Tell him not to do it.

Edit: "The lethal dose may be as low as 30 mcg or 0.03 mg total dose"

https://books.google.com/books?id=xAPa4WDzAnQC&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=etorphine+human+dosage&source=bl&ots=xZdlvN3Vtm&sig=afqAkjnUN5pU07xjsJEiZpnFFRc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZx9Ocxo7MAhVRxGMKHZqLD10Q6AEIPzAJ#v=onepage&q=etorphine%20human%20dosage&f=false

 

[kleinerkiffer]

If etorphine is 3000x as potent as morphine and we go from 1mg morphine it's 1/3000=0.00033mg or 0.3 microgram or 333 nanogram

 

[UpInFlames]

This used to be called M-99. Even carefully calibrated doses kill medium to large animals on occasion. It is considered a deadly drug for veterinary personnel to handle.

Your friend is out of his mind.

 

[tacodude]

It also seems common to be compounded with acepromazine, which is an anti psychotic. He probably doesn't want that mixed in his stash.

Edit: LEO watches this forum too and I'm sure there are easy records of when etorphine went missing from the specific zoo you mentioned without being found as it is a very controlled substance. This post could easily be used as evidence against your "friend." Better hope investigators don't show up in some weeks.

 

[rhun]

Yeah I'm calling bullshit on all of this.

 

[drewbocop]

Way to give up all the personal and pertinent information needed to incriminate you and your "friend." Moron. Mods should get rid of this.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Never use a drop as a unit of measure, especially in matters of life or death like this one. This is a terrible idea because it depends on many different factors including the device and technique used to produce the drop as well as things like the density and the surface tension of the liquid. DON'T DO IT!

If your friend insists on doing this, and you can't talk him out of it, tell him that his chosen approach will likely kill him. This isn't just to scare you, I calculated an estimate of the dose and it's way too high! Even with the antidote this is totally unsafe (I'm guessing the antidote is elephant strength too, so hopefully he has some idea how to properly dose that or else he risks treating an overdose with an overdose assuming he gets that far)

The safe and practical way to do this is with a serial dilution. It's very important he understand that the accuracy in performing these dilutions is critically dependent on his ability to measure volumes (or masses if you have the density — this may be written on the bottle) accurately. This is why his "dilute a drop" method is so dangerous. He needs to be able to estimate these errors and calculate his dose to reasonable accuracy.

As an example of general technique, he might decide to measure out 1mL of the 3mg/ml Etorphine solution with a syringe, place it in a suitable container and then dilute that by a factor of 100. In this case, he'd dilute to a final volume of 100 mL. The ratio of final volume to initial volume is the dilution factor. Make sure this concept is crystal clear to him and that he knows how to use it. This will be his stock solution which has a concentration of 30 mcg/mL with reasonable accuracy. Put the concentrated Etorphine vial in a box inside a box and then put that in a safe somewhere and don't handle it again. The 30 mcg/mL stock solution can be used in turn as the starting point for preparing more dilute solutions suitable for testing. That's the general idea. The practice of this requires very carefully considered practical considerations, like what range of doses is one likely to prepare, storage, handling, spill and contamination management, and safety of overall operations. Since this is a potent poison there is no room for mindless trial and error whatsoever. Everything needs to be thought out. Once all the parameters of this operation are defined, numbers have been checked and rechecked and the appropriate equipment is obtained, make sure to go through a trial run of the dilution with something non-toxic.

Again, this is basic technique for preparing doses with known concentration from more concentrated ones. Reading this post isn't a substitute for practice and experience doing these basic laboratory operations. I hope it explains enough though for you to help him see more clearly if he insists on doing this. Actually dosing the compound and finding a dose suitable for usage is a different discussion altogether, I don't want to go there at all except to say I hope he gets the idea of working his way from something so weak as to be imperceptible and understands that finding an active dose will require many trials. Anyways, this all sounds like a really, really bad idea and I feel dirty even entertaining the idea, except to say his current plan almost certainly deadly.

Also, assuming this story is true, you also might just as well have led the cops right to him with that post. I suggest you edit out the details of the crime.

 

[Znegative]

Your friend is going to die. You don't use elephant tranquilizers for recreational intoxication. There's too much risk, I don't know what etorphine's transdermal BA is, but I imagine that it's potent enough that it wouldn't matter, and a simple screw up could end up in a fatal overdose before he even gets to fix up the shot. If I were you, I'd steal the shit from him, and fucking take it to a pharmacy or some place that would know how to dispose of it properly, because really, your friend is going to die.

 

[twentyeggs]

So I took your suggestion and edited the OP, I know ***s look at this site but I am registered to an email that is not linked to me in any way. I'm a tor user and I'm close enough to some condos that have free wifi that I use when I research anything that would raise an eyebrow... it would take some serious effort to find me. My days of doing anything illegal are over and I wouldn't cooperate with any questions either so I would be useless to them if they did go through all the trouble of locating me.

Second, I texted him this morning a bunch of stuff like he's going to die and he can't dilute it the way he's talking about. Even lied to him saying it's similar to fentanyl patches where if you squeeze out a drop it could have 5 crystals and the next drop could have 50 crystals so its unreliable. And he sent me this "I'm going over to ****'s place. He's going to help me dose it down to a safe starting point." And this guy I know him. He is a chem major from Berkley. He used to make 2c-e and a few other synthetic chemicals and sell it to his friends many years ago. He gave me 2 capsules of the 2c-e and I tried it once. It was crazy ridiculous stuff... and painful oh god those 2 minutes of pain is just out of this world. It had me writhing in pain holding my face and rolling around, but when it stopped, it stopped fast, and as I took my hands away everything started to crawl and pattern. It was the craziest trip i've ever experienced. I felt like I could taste colors so I ended up turning on pink Floyd and gluing my eyes to the music visualization/screen saver thing on WinAMP for hours. It was the most fun I've ever had watching that screen. I haven't touched another hallucinogen again after that. lol I haven't talked to the guy in like 7-8 years but the last time I did he was crazy smart and obsessed with chem and making stuff. I know he's got his masters, don't know if he's a Phd yet, probably is. So I said what I could. At least hes not going to attempt anything on his own. I actually think he will be pretty safe if BLANK is there to do it for him.

 

[rhun]

^ cool story. Since there's a convenient ending and your "friend" won't listen anyway I'm going to close this.