Support Suboxone for fentanyl?

[Suboxombie]

I feel like I screwed myself. I’ve been on Suboxone for a long time now. I haven’t taken other opiates in years. But on Tuesday I got some fentanyl and been doing a little every day. Last time I did some was yesterday (Friday) so for 4 days I have taken fent and not taken my sub. I’m trying to get back on my sub but I’m so scared bc everyone I know that does this weird fent analouge, can not take sub after. It’s differ than with dope we all know wait 24 hours or as long as you can stand the withdrawal symptoms and then take the sub and you won’t get pwd. But with this stuff, it stays in your body so long that I’ve seen peope wait 5 days and still get pwd when they take sub.

The difference is, they are addicted to fent and trying to get on sub. I am “addicted” to sub, took fent for 4 days and want to get back on sub. so it should be easier for me. Do I still have sub in my system after 4 days of not taking it? how long should I wait to take my sub? Im really scared. Ive been through pwd before and it sucks. But this is worse bc of the drug I chose, and how long I took it for.
im definitely in withdrawal now but don’t know how bad it is bc I’ve been dosing myself with gabapentin and clonazepam. And those are helping the symptoms but also the gaba is creating it’s own undesirable effects, but I guess it’s the lesser of 2 evils.

so I’m freaked out. Idk what to do, how long to wait.…I don’t want to get pwd.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I feel like I screwed myself. I’ve been on Suboxone for a long time now. I haven’t taken other opiates in years. But on Tuesday I got some fentanyl and been doing a little every day. Last time I did some was yesterday (Friday) so for 4 days I have taken fent and not taken my sub. I’m trying to get back on my sub but I’m so scared bc everyone I know that does this weird fent analouge, can not take sub after. It’s differ than with dope we all know wait 24 hours or as long as you can stand the withdrawal symptoms and then take the sub and you won’t get pwd. But with this stuff, it stays in your body so long that I’ve seen peope wait 5 days and still get pwd when they take sub.

The difference is, they are addicted to fent and trying to get on sub. I am “addicted” to sub, took fent for 4 days and want to get back on sub. so it should be easier for me. Do I still have sub in my system after 4 days of not taking it? how long should I wait to take my sub? Im really scared. Ive been through pwd before and it sucks. But this is worse bc of the drug I chose, and how long I took it for.
im definitely in withdrawal now but don’t know how bad it is bc I’ve been dosing myself with gabapentin and clonazepam. And those are helping the symptoms but also the gaba is creating it’s own undesirable effects, but I guess it’s the lesser of 2 evils.

so I’m freaked out. Idk what to do, how long to wait.…I don’t want to get pwd.

Hey there, since your question is not geographically restricted, I'm going to move it to The Dark Side as I think you will get more replies. It will get it's own thread.

NSADD -> TDS

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Hey there, since your question is not geographically restricted, I'm going to move it to The Dark Side as I think you will get more replies. It will get it's own thread.

NSADD -> TDS

I’m not entirely sure that’s actually the sensible way of doing it because certainly here in Europe we don’t use suboxone we use straight buprenorphine (for the most part) and the presence of the naloxone is (I would have thought) pretty relevant.

Just my 2p, but I think extremely few people from Europe will have any experience with suboxone and that could lead to incorrect advice if they answer using their experience of straight bupe.

 

[Nas47]

Well....for me.....the problem is not so naloxone,but bupe itself-straight or with narcan....'cause his binding affinity is very strong,but imo lesser,than fentanyl.....so u must wait to feel withdrawl and take a little bit and wait....to see what's happened.if u took fent only four days it could not be such large problem...just calm down&stop immidietly with powder and try to cameback to ur previous more stabile condition with sub.....don't take this shit fent friend....u onow what suffer is this..wish u sucess..u will do it

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

If the binding affinity of fent was stronger than that of bupe then precipitated wd would not even be possible.

If someone who knows better thinks that is wrong please say and I will change that.

 

[Nas47]

Ue o think it&d stronger...anyone change fent with bupr.use bernese method....to not get in pw

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Come again?

 

[Nas47]

Ue o think it&d stronger...and it could be pebbles fbubchange fent for bupr.thatsbwhy Berneseethorbexost

Come again?

ZMy text writer is screwed fuuuuck.i can't see the words.All guys quittin' fent analogs use Bernese method when starting bupe therapy.there is not difference is bupe is with narcan or not in such case(well-better without ofcourse)the bupe itself is the reason not narcan(for pw)
PS In Europe predominantly use suboxon-bupr+naloxone-sublingual tabs.-see in Finland,Germany i guess(they even put naloxone in tilidin pills)Spain....combo bupr.+naloxone is for addiction treatment.Straight bupr.is used like pain management....original brand subutex(bupr.only)even is not produced anymore

 

[Mellonod]

i just went through precipitated WD i was on methadone and fent, it took me personally 5 days before i felt relief, i had 16 bars and a script of valium which made it ok

 

[kongoman]

NO MORE to say after the post of Nas47 I think. He nailed the post
Stay safe and stop fent.
Love to all of you

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

ZMy text writer is screwed fuuuuck.i can't see the words.All guys quittin' fent analogs use Bernese method when starting bupe therapy.there is not difference is bupe is with narcan or not in such case(well-better without ofcourse)the bupe itself is the reason not narcan(for pw)
PS In Europe predominantly use suboxon-bupr+naloxone-sublingual tabs.-see in Finland,Germany i guess(they even put naloxone in tilidin pills)Spain....combo bupr.+naloxone is for addiction treatment.Straight bupr.is used like pain management....original brand subutex(bupr.only)even is not produced anymore

Yeah subutex is rarely used but there are loads of generic forms of straight bupe that are used, UK is pretty much only straight bupe. Never heard of anyone taking a combo with naloxone.

Would like to hear from others in Europe if they have more info about types of bupe used just out of personal interest.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

UK has been switched over to the new ‘wafer’ formulation of bupe where you just let it melt and then swallow now too.

Can’t remember the name of it for my life which is pretty poor given I was on it for a year.

 

[Eligiu]

ZMy text writer is screwed fuuuuck.i can't see the words.All guys quittin' fent analogs use Bernese method when starting bupe therapy.there is not difference is bupe is with narcan or not in such case(well-better without ofcourse)the bupe itself is the reason not narcan(for pw)
PS In Europe predominantly use suboxon-bupr+naloxone-sublingual tabs.-see in Finland,Germany i guess(they even put naloxone in tilidin pills)Spain....combo bupr.+naloxone is for addiction treatment.Straight bupr.is used like pain management....original brand subutex(bupr.only)even is not produced anymore

This is correct also where Iive. Australia is the same. Naloxone + bupe. Suboxone films.

Subutex, straight bupe, is given to do a slow taper off over 12 weeks in 0.4mg doses. Not normally allowed to be prescribed. Tablet form.

The naloxone was put in as a 'deterrent' to dissuade people from injecting. Fair, because injecting suboxone strips is very dangerous.

But it doesn't cause PW. The binding affinity of bupe does.

I had surgery recently and they blasted me with mega dose fentanyl to get past the blocking mechanism of Buvidal, which is the monthly bupe injection. I couldn't feel any euphoria from the fentanyl I was on. Helped the pain, a bit. But no warm opiate feeling.

Got given 5mg Oxycodone on discharge. Did absolutely nothing.

@OP you *should* be okay to take it again, but if in any doubt, use the bernese method to induce yourself back on. Really low doses, every day, until you're back to your normal dose.

 

[crzydiamond]

When I’ve done this — same thing been on suboxone, did some “dope” (I’m in PA so almost any dope has fent these days ) and what I did was just take very very small piece of sub and wait n see

That’s what I did when I got on subs, and back then I was on a fent analogue (purple dope ). You have to try a tiny tiny piece and wait like 20 min and see if you feel better or worse. If better take like a 1 mg piece. Wait. If still ok just keep going like that every hour or so up to where you want to be dose wise

When I first got on sub I did wait days because of the fent. I was fine when I inducted. But that fent was still in my system over 2 weeks later.

 

[kongoman]

Yeah subutex is rarely used but there are loads of generic forms of straight bupe that are used, UK is pretty much only straight bupe. Never heard of anyone taking a combo with naloxone.

Would like to hear from others in Europe if they have more info about types of bupe used just out of personal interest.

In Spain we have suboxone bupe+naloxone. Its a shit.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I’m not entirely sure that’s actually the sensible way of doing it because certainly here in Europe we don’t use suboxone we use straight buprenorphine (for the most part) and the presence of the naloxone is (I would have thought) pretty relevant.

Just my 2p, but I think extremely few people from Europe will have any experience with suboxone and that could lead to incorrect advice if they answer using their experience of straight bupe.

The post was in North and South America Drug Discussion inside a thread for a single state. I moved it to The Dark Side for more visibility. Moving it to European Drug Discussion would have not been sensible.

If you have a problem with that, take it to consumer affairs

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

The post was in North and South America Drug Discussion inside a thread for a single state. I moved it to The Dark Side for more visibility. Moving it to European Drug Discussion would have not been sensible.

If you have a problem with that, take it to consumer affairs

Don’t have a problem with it I just wanted to make it clear that in Europe people are not necessarily using a bupe+naloxone formulation as presumably that is an important difference.

I haven’t looked at it but if this Bernese method is a specific technique for going fent analogues > bupe then it sounds like that is the place to start anyway.

 

[crzydiamond]

Believe it or not, the naloxone really doesn’t factor into the equation for what OP is asking

It’s kinda like the bystander—yeah it’s there, but has no active role. Any precipitated withdrawal will be the same whether one inducts on subutex (no naloxone) or suboxone (with naloxone)

Because pharmacologically speaking, it’s the bupe itself causing the pwd. Stronger binding affinity plus only being a partial agonist (imagine a block that fills a hole —but not perfectly) at the mu receptor.

When it rips off the full agonist(which fills the hole perfectly) —be it fentadope or whatever opiate of choice of the day—and the bupe takes over and only *partially* fills the receptor is basically what’s going on when we humans experience that awful immediate sick.

Fent is a unusual problem, because it has a similar binding affinity to bupe as well as being lipophilic (it hides out in your fat for weeks)

I personally agree the easiest induction from a fent or fent analogue is to Bernese
type method— the microdose of bupe (with or without naloxone) while taking your opiate of choice, then tapering said opiate while increasing bupe doses (and I say this as I tried 7 days cold turkey of a fentadope mixture and I was no better day 7 than day 2… and tested positive for fent over 2 weeks after last use… so most aren’t going to hold out long enough to get past the pwd. That said, I started with a tiny dose on day 8, and was fine )

Incidentally, and this may not be a good thing, but I also find that I can use even fentadope (look there is not much choice in PA) and as long as I take a small amount of bupe daily, I have absolutely no issue going back just to subs. (We won’t discuss the week I forgot lol)

 

[Fertile]

If the binding affinity of fent was stronger than that of bupe then precipitated wd would not even be possible.

If someone who knows better thinks that is wrong please say and I will change that.

The affinity of those two is neck and neck. But how much fills 100% of the receptors? I know in the US they go up to 24mg/day so I guess the fentanyl will still find somewhere to go. In practice they will compete.

But I took 8mg of bup in the morning and got my usual nod 8 hours later after some H. It just reversed my dependence. I found after a week I could just take nothing. Opioid dependence is mostly psychological. I've been as sick from an illness as I have been from WD. Thee difference is - if it's a rattle, you know how to stop it....

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Hey @Suboxombie, how you holding up? I haven't seen you in this thread since it got moved.