Storing AL-LAD l-tartrate - powder form vs. in solution?

[Phototrophic]

Let me preface this thread by mentioning that I am aware of and have skimmed the many storage threads in PD, including the B&D one. As far as I can tell, though, the question that I am about to raise has not been comprehensively answered anywhere.

I was wondering if there is any benefit to putting AL-LAD l-tartrate powder into a solution for long-term storage, vs. just putting the powder in a small, air-proof glass vial and storing it that way. I do not have argon gas (or any other inert gas) available, so deoxygenating the vial is not an option. I know that exposure to oxygen is a no-no, though I am not sure if the risk is significant given the small and constant amount of oxygen in the vial.

As far as the solution is concerned, I would be using either distilled water or ethanol, or a mix of the two. I don't suppose that something like e.g. 80 proof vodka would be a good choice, but I'll be happy to be corrected on this.

The plan is, obviously, to store the vial in a freezer.

Which method will work better for protecting the substance against degradation?

 

[blazR]

Lucky bastard

Sorry, can't help with your question though..

 

[Solipsis]

Putting compounds in solution will virtually always (or should I say generally) make them less stable because they become much more easily ionized. That is a problem because ionized forms of a compound can be intermediaries in a reaction or conversion to something else. If your stuff is turning into something else, that is another way of saying it is degrading.

 

[sekio]

More practically, dissolving compounds in solution greatly increases the surface area and thereby makes it easier tor reactions to occur.

Keep it dry, away from moisture and light. Preferably under an inert gas, in a brown glass bottle., packed with dessicants. Don't dissolve it until you have to use it.

 

[crazycatman]

Isn't usually the correct answer for this powder in amber vial, air replaced with inert gas, whole thing in freezer?

 

[sekio]

You don't neccesarily have to freeze it, but that's the idea.

 

[Solipsis]

Yes, like sekio said.

There is a sort of order to these measures, the less stable a compound is the more advanced measures you have to take:

- Storing airtight may be one of the most basic and important ones, not only a sealed baggie but also something like a vial that is really sealed. Protects from oxygen and water in the outside environment
- Protecting from moisture carried in the air is a close second, you need to put a desiccant in the sealed container - if it is not sealed it will keep attracting water from the outside environment and make a mess. If sealed, the desiccant protects from water in the air inside the container. (Note that an important factor here is how often you open the container because that resets the moisture levels of the air inside the container!)
- Storing in low temperature is also important. Generally the colder the better (freezer > fridge), but also note that the colder you get the more important the desiccant is because there can be messed up water effects in super cold freezers.
- Storing away from light is not equally important for every compound. Some compounds can degrade if they can get energetically excited from light absorption. Ergolines are an example so here it is indeed important. An amber vial or completely blinded container is the answer.
- Storing under an inert atmosphere by using noble gases like argon is an additional line of defense, removing oxygen from the air inside the container. Again it matters how often you open the container. An easier and more accessible method is using an oxygen-pack containing iron dust which will sacrifice itself to react with the oxygen, thereby removing it.

 

[crazycatman]

You don't neccesarily have to freeze it, but that's the idea.

Well if your gonna go all the way...


Anyway (this is about blotters, but some one might find it useful) my vendor suggested keeping them in their original vacuum sealed bag and in the freezer if storing for a long time. And if taking just a few out resealing the bag (hair straightener worked, just made sure the blotters were as far as possible from the seal) and putting it back in the freezer.

But for short timeframes (few weeks) I don't think heat matters all that much if they are in their vacuum sealed baggy. My first AL-LAD was order just as a heat wave started, was in the postal system/my place during (temps got up to 40°C at the worst parts) and the blotters worked just fine.

This is why I like the 2cs stable enough that your children could trip from your 2c-e.

 

[Phototrophic]

Thanks for the great answers. Powder in a glass vial it is, then.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Hi guys, quick question about AL-LAD Tartrate solubility...
Am I correct in assuming that it would be highly soluble in vodka?
Thanks so much in advance for any insight!

 

[Solipsis]

99% sure about that yes, I would be extremely surprised if you could not achieve the very low concentration required for appropriate dosing.

Why do you want to use vodka, am I in turn correct in assuming that you are applying volumetric measurement in lieu of a high precision scale? If so, I can see how you kinda have to.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Hi Solipsis!
Thank you so much for your response! I have a pretty good mg scale but for anything under 10mg I prefer volumetric measuring for absolute accuracy. I was pretty sure the Tartrate would be soluble in ethanol but I really just wanted a second opinion from the wise souls at bluelight.
Cheers!

 

[Pastel]

Perhaps I am in a wrong thread, but at the current point of the discussion it seems like an appropriate moment to ask a more general related question.
Let's say that somebody has accumulated a very large collection of small amounts of RC compounds. So 50-100 small 1"x2" plastic bags with couple of grams of powder would easily fit in a ziploc bag with a desiccant which could be placed inside another ziplock bag and kept in a freezer or a cool basement. That is a simple solution. Unfortunately I found out that stored this way some compounds like butylone become inactive very quickly. 4-FA is apparently another compound which will degrade after a couple of years. What I would like to ask is a two-fold question. 1) Is there a single source of information somewhere which lists shelf-life and compound-specific storage suggestions for most RCs? 2) I understand that one cannot discuss RC sources on this forum, but I am assuming that this rule does not apply to equipment. Could you point the specific type of glass vials which could be filled out with argon and explain how you would fill it with it and seal it? Let's say one has to open the vial every couple of weeks. A permanent sealing would seem rather laborious a practice to conduct at such frequency, wouldn't it? And what exactly did you mean by "really sealing the vial"? Another problem that it is far more difficult to store such large number of vials inconspicuously, as opposed to a single zipped bag, which can be hidden in a myriad of things. What would you suggest? Thanks.

 

[blueberries]

I always wondered about this but foolishly didn't give any care to my 'other' ergolines. Acid I keep very safe; tin foil, cold, dark place etc but the others I never gave a fuck about. I have no idea why as they'd have the same degradation factor as LSD but it just didn't seem as though it mattered as much. (PS. It does matter as much.)