Stimulants Stimulant comedown benzos vs antipsychotics vs clonidine?

[fugme]

I know this question has been asked a lot before, but i haven't found clear-cut answer yet.

I would first like to say that i do NOT care about comedown anxiety or psychosis, as i don't binge stimulants and don't take them in too high dosages.

About benzodiazepines: most people recommend alprazolam - however is it the best benzo to counter high heart-rate and hypertension? I'm asking this because i've tried it once in dosages high enough to knock me out, but i was still overstimulated in the morning after a good sleep..

AFAIK quetiapine works as an antihistamine which produces drowsiness. Is it comparable to diphenhydramine (up to 75mg) or doxylamine (up to 65mg) in its effects? I have tried both of these antihistamines for insomnia before and while doxylamine is the strongest of 2 and makes me so tired i can't even keep my eyes open it doesn't knock me out because my mind is still working.. so if quetiapine is not that much stronger that these 2 i seriously doubt its going to help me with stimulant-induced insomnia.

I am, however more interested in its antagonistic effects on dopamine / serotonin / andrenergic receptors. Will it acutely reduce my blood pressure and heartrate?

I've also read about clonidine - it doesn't seem to be that popular and i'm worried it could worsen my problems as i've read it can be unsafe to combine alpha-blockers and stimulants. Can you tell me more about this? How would you compare it to benzos and antipsychotics?

 

[Vinnie77]

If you just want to slow down heart rate and reduce hypertension, then you can use beta blockers

 

[Jabberwocky]

Having tried multiple combinations of all of the above for meth comedowns I can say that:

1. Clonidine seems to reduce feelings of hypertension but does not put you to sleep after stims
2. Seroquel 25-50 mg will give you 8 hours sleep if you are already at the comedown phase but is less helpful if you are still peaking. Bigger doses don’t seem to do that much until you get up to 300 mg. 300 mg will knock you out even immediately after shooting half a gram - but you may be still speeding when you wake up. I get zero effect from other antihistamines - so there is something different about seroquel and it absolutely knocks me out compared to alternative antihistamines.
3. Valium works better for the comedown - if you are concerned about peripheral effects like anxiety. It relaxes muscle tension, seems to reduce heart rate and puts you to sleep since it is hypnotic. SHort acting benzos might be good in an emergency but you wake up quickly and you are still speeding as they wear off.
4. Beta blockers don’t seem to even touch the sides when still high.

In practice, after a 48 hour binge but when I am still high but had enough or am worried about pushing on into psychosis and want to stop it before it happens I will take the first 3, valium 10mg, seroquel 50 mg and clonidine 100 ug and sleep for close to 8 hours.

 

[fugme]

thank you for your responses. It seems the more i read about this topic, the less i'm sure which drug to choose . I know 1 thing for sure, i'll order vitamin c pills because apparently it speeds up secretion of stimulants which is a major issue for me because i can sometimes feel them 24+ hours later. I always take my stimulants with 3500mg-4000mg of phenibut to enhance the experience so i don't want to add another 3 drugs to the mixture, just one.

I was thinking of using just diazepam like you suggested, but it has a very long half-life. I then thought about lorazepam which is also used for stimulants ODs, however i'm concerned it could make me too "fucked up" in the morning if i'm going to work (or cause possible respiratory depression if i take large doses). Next i thought about alprazolam again since it wears off by the time i wake up and i could redose perhaps 2-3mg in the morning without worry if i'm still overstimulated.

Apparently in low dosages (<100mg i think?) quetapine only works as an antihistamine for sedation, so not really that different or better than benzo would be, as its antagonistic effects work only in high dosages, right? If so benzos would probably be a safer option.

finally to ask you about alpha/beta blockers - you say they don't put you to sleep. Did you mean that there's still stimulation done to your body / mind from amphetamines OR they're simply not sedating like benzos? Because if they kill high heartrate and hypertension than perhaps 3.5gr of phenibut will be enough to make me fall asleep without the need of benzos.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I mean I'd stay away from using the benzo unless you need to because they can cause a rad dependence.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was thinking of using just diazepam like you suggested, but it has a very long half-life.

That's one of its benefits for a stim comedown - however that is mainly for residual anxiety or general sketchiness which you said you are not concerned about. BUt if you are seeking a good 8 hours sleep it is probably the only benzo that will keep you under that long and maybe not even then.

if i'm going to work

If you are going to work without getting sleep you should just stay stimulated but if you want to go to work you need at least a few hours sleep - it depends on how much sleep time your schedule permits as to which benzo is going to be right. If you are only going to be able to fit in 2-3 hours then valium probbly not right. But a xanax can lead to all kinds of weird shit after being on stims - like sleepwalking and blackout behaviour. I wouldn't take a xanax if i had to be at work in 4 hours.

Apparently in low dosages (<100mg i think?) quetapine only works as an antihistamine for sedation, so not really that different or better than benzo would be, as its antagonistic effects work only in high dosages, right? If so benzos would probably be a safer option.

Apparently in low dosages (<100mg i think?) quetapine only works as an antihistamine for sedation, so not really that different or better than benzo would be, as its antagonistic effects work only in high dosages, right? If so benzos would probably be a safer option.

FOr sleep quetapine is prescribed at 25 mg usually. But after stims 50 mg does the job better. I find it does not leave much of a hangover at those doses. But again, depends on how much time you can commit to sleep. DOn't take it for less than 6 hours downtime, preferably 8.

[/QUOTE]

finally to ask you about alpha/beta blockers - you say they don't put you to sleep. Did you mean that there's still stimulation done to your body / mind from amphetamines OR they're simply not sedating like benzos? Because if they kill high heartrate and hypertension than perhaps 3.5gr of phenibut will be enough to make me fall asleep without the need of benzos.

Basically i've never felt any effect on mind or body from beta blockers while on stimulants. I believe they are very very mild drugs easily overpowered by stims even in moderate doses. They are definitely not sedating even without stims.

I've never taken phenibut so I don't know what it adds to the equation - but to maintain sanity and general healthiness and minimise risks of fucking up at work, I'd be trying to get 6-8 hours of sleep before going to work and that will work will depend a lot on when my last does of stims was and how long I've been up. But say it was a 48 hour binge and my last dose was 8 hours ago, then 10 mg valium and 50 mg quetapine would give sleep or very chilled time of 6-8 hours and leave me ready for work. You need to experiement I guess but at these kind of low doses there is very little risk in a bit of experimentation. But there is definitely no need for mega doses of benzos to deal with stim comedowns. A little bit goes a long way if you are not a regular benzo user

 

[CFC]

Basically i've never felt any effect on mind or body from beta blockers while on stimulants. I believe they are very very mild drugs easily overpowered by stims even in moderate doses. They are definitely not sedating even without stims.

That might be true for you, but I find clonidine and propranolol pretty effective for ending a stim binge.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That might be true for you, but I find clonidine and propranolol pretty effective for ending a stim binge.

You are fortunate indeed. They are a lot easier to source than benzos and seroquel. I wish I felt them more.

 

[kokaino]

Best thing for a hard crash is 30 mg nitrazepam or 60-70 mg temazepam, with a moderate opioid like hydrocodoneor oxycodone, in my experience

 

[Jabberwocky]

Best thing for a hard crash is 30 mg nitrazepam or 60-70 mg temazepam, in my experience

That would probably take me down only 5 minutes after my last shot!

 

[kokaino]

That would probably take me down only 5 minutes after my last shot!

It would be nice if we can still access methaqualone, secobarbital, pentobarbital, or other barbiturates