Bupe St. John's Wort, Suboxone, and CYP3A4

[abababbabababab]

The active ingredient In St.John's Wort, is Hypericum Perforatum and Hyperforin Though some formulas sold as St.John's Wort do not contain Hyperforin.

St.Johns Wort's mechanism of action, from what I've read, is not entirely understood. It's thought to have weak Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor properties, but it also effects seretonin, dopamine, and neuroepinephrine. Hypericin is thought to also activate GABA-A, GABA-B, and Glutimate Receptors.

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor's can be dangerous because they have potentially lethal interactions with many foods, prescription medications, OTC's, and supplement's (such as St.Johns Wort). Combining MAOI's with certain anti-depressants or serotonergic drugs, stimulants, and certain opioids(Tramadol, Meperidine) can cause Seretonin Syndrome, which is a drug reaction that can be potentially lethal.

As for St.Johns' Wort, it can cause multiple drug interactions through the induction of cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP3A4 and CYP2C9, resulting in increased metabolism And decreased concentration and effect. Buprenorphine, Methadone, Midazolam, and Alprazolam are just a few of the drugs known to have interactions with St.John's Wort. According to this study, buprenorphine is a rather potent inhibitor of CYP2D6, while Nor-Buprenorphine, Bupe's potent full-agonist metabolite, showed weak inhibition. Some people take St.John's Wort to try and inhibit the absorption of buprenorphine in hopes that the norbuprenorphine will fill up the receptor sites instead. I've personally tried it three times. The first time I noticed no noticeable interaction, the second two times (when I was at a slightly lower dosage) I experienced a shortened duration of buprenorphine's effects, and the urge to redose out of discomfort. No high was ever experienced.

There are also studys that show that St.John's Wort Causes drug interaction through the induction of the P-Glycoprotein Efflux Transporter. This can also cause a decrease in absorption and duration in certain drugs such as methadone, though it appears to not effect absorption or metabolism of buprenorphine.

Norbuprenorphine has 1/50th the analgesic potential but 10 times the respiratory depression of buprenorphine. It doesn't pass the BBB very well which is why it doesn't get you high.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

St. John's Wort causes a "flattening" effect of my emotions & mindset. Almost like drug induced anhedonia & mood blunting. It's almost dysphoric at times.
It produced the same effect when used with bupe. So it actually made the bupe less euphoric (which it barley is to begin with) and I didn't get any sort of uplifted mood or energy that I normally get from opioids, due to the "flattening" from the SJW. So, in the end, I don't believe it's worth it to take these two things together.




Person above me is spot on as well. Norbuprenorphine, while technically active, has a lot of trouble getting & staying active enough to produce any sort of "high", due to all kinds of reasons (potency, not passing the BBB, being blocked by the parent molecule). I don't believe there is any way to "feel" norbupenorephine in it's entirety by using buprenorphine.

 

[Borax]

Sorry for the Necro bump. I was gonna ask this very question. I'm 3 days on subs and not sleeping well. I know it's par for the course but that's not going to stop me from trying something to help me sleep. I bought this soda, the same company used to make a brownie that kicked my ass but the soda is called sippin syrup. Corny I know. It has chamomile extract, lavender extract melatonin, valerian root extracts, rose hips extract, hops extract, St John's Wort extract, skull cap extract, kava kava extract and then some b vitamins and sugar and the other stuff. I just am wondering if it's safe to drink this stuff while on subs. I'm thinking I should just get valerian root by itself because that and or kava kava is like a benzo and I think exclusively lives in the gaba neighborhood of the brain.

Anyway mods if necro bumps are frowned upon, let me know I'm more than happy to make a new one. I tried to add something substantive and I thought there was good discussion worthy of a revisit.

In what way did it kick your ass? Pleasant, almost high or just made you slump?

 

[tarman]

In what way did it kick your ass? Pleasant, almost high or just made you slump?

Just knocked me out and felt like a benzo. I just was so surprised for something over the counter.

 

[MRS.in.sane.KITTY]

It is dangerous, a bit so anyone should read what it can cause first.