Stimulants Speed habit - inpatient treatment or not?

[SoulEater]

Hello people,

I’m new to this forum and after spending a lot of time reading here I decided to ask you for advice on my situation.
I’m an 21 years old female from Germany and used to consume speed daily for 2 years. Last year in December I went into residential detox as my mother whom I’m living with wanted me to and I didn’t want to have an argument with her.

It didn’t take long that I started using again but this time I put a lot of effort into researching harm reduction and cutting back on my dosage.
At the moment I’m taking 200mg speed daily, which equals to ~120mg pure amphetamine daily, as I had my speed involuntary tested by the police who attested a degree of purity of ~60%.

I'm still worried if it is okay to use that amount daily or if I have to expect serious damage to my health if I continue that use?

My original plan was to get a job, move out and start studying Psychology this year in October. But I'm not so sure about it anymore as the doctors at the detox advised me to go into an inpatient treatment. Problem is, if I go there I can't start studying this year and would have to wait for another year which would really frustrate me

Now I'm really confused and not sure if I should follow through with my original plans or if it's a bad idea?

I hope you can somehow help me with this decision and I'm curious about your opinions about it!

 

[g0to]

How many times have you tried to stop on your own

Why don't u try to stop on ur own at first maybe get a job volunteering somewhere, something to take up the free time otherwise you're gonna be really bored and start fiending and go back to it. Seems that you're putting yourself on a time schedule that's cutting it kind of close, I made the same mistake, what you need to do is get clean first then all the other stuff will be 100x easier

You're 21 now not a baby anymore you need to take responsibility of getting yourself n this situation not have someone else bail you out by telling you what to do, like get a job go to college etc.

Dunno how big your habit is precisely from the post or how long you've been doing it but it doesn't seem like you've fucked yourself up that much yet

Your ego can be your own worst enemy, and it will keep ruining your plans and eventually your life unless you put it in check. Don't rush things though that's just setting yourself up to fail its exactly what your addiction wants you to do it by definition wants to perpetuate this cycle

I have alot of experience with speed(street California ice) and just finished 2 months clean after 4 years constant iv use (1-300mg every few days). I feel like I finally am there now because whenever I see it I want to puke. You can pm if you want I'll tell you a little bit about more sensitive tapering andose reduction/minimization strategies that could eventually lead to you getting 100% clean. I see alot of parallels with your situation and mine just please try your best to nip it in the bud im 25 and im shot out and I only really started heavily using about 20/21. Pls pm me and pay close attention to my response - I will do my best to help you out

 

[CousinCocaine]

In my opinion you shouldn't do impatient rehab because home detox for speed wouldn't be dangerous like alcohol or benzos would be, I feel like it would make the experience more stressful than it should be + I feel like if you're in a place where you're cut off completely removing the temptation your willpower won't be strong enough and you'd be back where you are again pretty quickly after you get out. I might be wrong but I feel like detoxing in a place where you do have access you'll learn how to deal with that temptation, kinda get what I'm sayin? I know it can be really hard I've had amphetamine withdrawals numerous times after heavy binges but I always made it but I choose to keep doing it but in a more responsible way and I don't get hooked now but not everyone can do that. I honestly don't know if you should be doing any really difficult studying for at least a while after getting clean cause I find that this can be a very bad trigger for me and many others, it'll give you an excuse you'll say "I got a big paper (or test to study for or whatever) I'll just use it this once as a study drug." and that once will more than likely be enough to pull you back in. Try to avoid any unnecessary stress at all if possible for awhile after getting clean and ID your personal triggers. The only reason I could think of to go to an inpatient program is if you think that you can't handle the almost inevitable depression that will come along with quitting, if you feel suicidal or homicidal then you definitely need to go inpatient but other than that I'd say no.

To answer your question about if it would be harmful to continue using that dose that frequently, yes, more than likely. Any continuous stimulant usage can come with the very real risk of cardiovascular complications. Not to mention how detrimental the anorexia and insomnia I assume you like most speed users have . There's also mental health aspects I wont go into beyond the risk of psychosis.

Good luck, hope this was helpful.

 

[SoulEater]

Hello again,


at first I want to thank both of you for your quick and in-depth replies.
At the moment I am really thankful for any help because I feel really insecure and confused about what to do.


Also I want to excuse myself because I wasn't completely honest in my introduction post.
Taking 200mg daily would be my goal but in the last months I wasn't able to keep that goal all the time.
It worked for a week or so but then I took a higher dosage and even did meth a few times in the last weeks.
The pressure to make a decision that i feel unable to make has made me really depressed and anxious, so I felt the need to take more in order to deal with that feelings. Also I was a lot at home doing nothing in the last time because I could't decide which also made it really hard to keep my dosage.
On the one side I know that this isn't an excuse, on the other side I think maybe with an occupation and clear direction it would be easier to keep my intended dosage.


I decided to follow your tip and really try to stop on my own first before considering an impatient program. I tried two times to stop on my own but it wasn't completely voluntarily (my mother wanted me to) so I think it doesn't really count because the intention to get clean didn't come from myself during that time. I did'nt realize at that time that I need to stop because I couldn't or didn't want to see the risks that come from consuming daily.
I use daily since two years now and have consumed huge amounts (0.5g - 1,2g per day) during the last year from January to October. I worked at a factory during that time and felt that I wasn't able to get through the work day without consuming that much.


That is why I'm really scared that I will consume that much again if I start to work now. I don't know how long it takes until the daily consumption starts to take its toll on my health and damages my organs, but I guess it isn't worth the risk to continue my consumption for another 5 months of working.


Maybe I should try to stop first on my own and give myself 2-3 weeks to detox and then decide if I feel able to work or not. After the two times when I stopped involuntarily I didn't feel able to work without consuming again because I was afraid I couldn't fulfill the performance requirements. Depression was also an issue. I was really unhappy and anxious at that time and glad when I was able to consume again.
So I have to see if I feel that way too this time or if I'm able to get over it with more willpower this time.


Basically starting next year with my studies (in 2018) would also be possible, I just thought it would be better to start as soon as I can because I'm already 22 in a month and have no education yet.


Anyway I'll start tomorrow with my detox at home. I'm afraid of it and also feel bad that I'm still neither working nor in an impatient program but I cannot think of another way to decide right now.

 

[g0to]

You're going to be tired, and going to have a lot of times where you want to quit but tell yourself you cannot due to one excuse or another. There is never a perfect or good time to quit stimulants. It will always fuck something up about your schedule. Once associated with stuff like work, sex etc it sometimes ONLY starts working like that. Look up 'neuroplasticity', its basically the same thing that happens with meth. your brain adapts/changes over time to function better/worse in one way or another.

The daily consumption has in all honestly contributed to the detriment of your health over the past 2 years of usage. Using that long, it builds up in your body, your body cannot properly metabolise the constant doses its being bombarded with as well as the other metabolic products it needs to form endogenously for your body to function at its peak, and so that causes some extreme detriment. Same thing with if you ever consume alcohol, that will make things even worse. So if you have to keep using, choose one or the other. I personally went from choosing opiates, to stimulants, to alcohol, to opiates+stimulants+alcohol, and when that wasnt working I decided to quit.

Sometimes, and this is actually in my belief MOST if not ALL of the time, serial, chronic usage like you've described and like I just noted is just us self-medicating for a problem that we didn't know existed in the first place. For me it was Anxiety and Insomnia, which I have had since a young age. When I tried drugs it was like a switch flipped in my mind, and everything made sense and was finally able to feel the natural reward.... so very hard for me to quit.

Only through letting my body cleanse itself and trying to stay steadfast in my determination, and then consulting with my physician was I able to get on a proper regime of a medication that worked for ME to quell those underlying symptoms. Maybe for you its a boredom thing, or perhaps issues of something else, past trauma you are escaping through work/studying/drugs, it could be all of the above - you know yourself best though, so think this through and let me know what your next step will be.

 

[zephyr]

The thing that eventually worked for me was actually wanting to stop and not seeing any benefit of the daily use lifestyle anymore. I was sick of it and also very sick physically and mentally.

I tried inpatient but it didnt work because I wasnt ready and it was an artificial place.

I had scripts for diazepam and seroquel and was on effexor already. If you go to a gp and bring a friend with you that can keep an eye on you and explain you want to detox at home under the care of a friend they should help you. By yourself Im not sure but maybe they will but get mental health services to check on you.

 

[g0to]

^Mhm. It basically has to run its course, in some situations (nearly all). They say the course it anywhere from 1-5 years from first usage for most end-users. Not sure how true that is though, it's one of those factoids that love to be quoted by rehab specialists (usually pushing their own agenda to fund their inpatient business). Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with private rehabs, it just seems that it's undermining the end result, like as if you can throw money at this issue and its goes away, under the guise of convenience and comfort.

 

[SoulEater]

Ironically (and sadly) I actually found another excuse today to consume again 8) (meth). I didn't take anything until 3 p.m. and just lay in my bed because I was too exhausted to get up and start doing something. When my mother came home she asked me why I'm still lying in bed and I told her about my plan to detox. She asked me why I wanted to detox and I was confused by the question so I answered nothing. I felt guilty for doing nothing and still not having made a decision and suddenly thought that it wasn't a good idea to wait for antoher 2-3 weeks until I decide what I do next. I was afraid that my mother would kick me out soon if I continue to do nothing and not have a plan.
I felt the urge to be able to think clearly and make a decision right now, so I took the meth and now I am where I have been before and still don't know what to do (urgh).

I think I might be too afraid of the consequences of both alternatives and therefore cannot make a decision. If I start to work now I'm afraid I'll lose control again and consume excessively like last year, overdosing every other day or ruining my health just by the chronic usage.
If I go to the inpatient program I'm afraid that I will ruin my occupational future and have big difficulties finding a job in the future. I already have a gap of 7 months from Sept 2016 until today, adding another 6-7 months if I go to the program. There would be the possibility that a former boss of an internship I did in the past could certify me an occupation or another internship for that time (he likes me very much) but I doubt if it will be believable because I already did an internship of 9 months there and it isn't a big institution.

Of course I also understand that an inpatient program is no convenient and 100% safe solution for my problem and there is no guarantee that I won't start using again once I'm out of the program. It just feels like the safer alternative right now because I'm afraid of losing control when I am alone working and have enough money to buy and consume as much as I want. I never realized that loss of control until a few months ago but now that I have it seems very scary.
In Germany you don't have to pay for the program (it's paid by the pension insurance), so money would not be a problem, I'm rather worried about my C.V. and that I would be already 23 when I start studying.

At the moment I have no plan what to do but I'll keep you updated and would be glad about any ideas

 

[treezy z]

Try to do it yourself first. If you are in a state where you can not be fired for hospitalization try to detox in a psych ward, you should get a week off work and ask the doctor to write a generic psychiatric letter (_____________ was treated here from x date to x date, authorized to return to work) and go back.

I live in MA where they have (maybe excessive) worker protections like this. I've been to detox 3 times at my current job (1.5 years there now) but I'm the best on the crew and never call out, just missed about 3 weeks detoxing.

(To get into the psych ward to detox you'll have to claim suicidal or homicidal ideation oftentimes.)

(edit: to maintain good will at work do it on an off week, I'm going off the assumption you work here.)

 

[CousinCocaine]

Sorry I realize it's been a long time since I've posted anything, been dealing with some stuff. It'd be great to hear an update.

I also have some advice. If you feel weak and think you "have to" use again and just can't convince yourself not to (don't feel bad if it does happen, I'd assume this happens to anyone who's dealt with an addiction at least once, I know it's happened to me more than once) use regular amphetamine instead of meth. From what I've read meth is far more neurotoxic than regular amphetamine and wreaks havoc on the part of your brain that produces serotonin which will most likely make the depression after quitting more intense and last much longer. Not saying that the doses of 0.5-1.2grams of speed you said you took weren't neurotoxic which just taking an educated guess I'd say they were (I'm no expert), but generally speaking meth tends to do more damage than regular amphetamine not to mention the increased addiction potential due to it's various ROAs (again I'm not an expert and I've never even tried meth or plan on it). I'll admit I have a bit of a prejudice toward meth because I've seen the physical damage batches made by idiots who don't know what they're doing caused people along with the monster it turns once good people into after the addition traps them in its jaws, I've actually had many acquaintances and even quite a few family members (luckily not my parents, I couldn't even imagine growing up in that) who had their lives ruined and/or ended by meth. It turned them into miserable shells of human beings who would lie, steal and probably kill if it came to it to get their goddamn fix, only two out of about 20 people i knew of got and stayed clean, one is in prison for multiple reasons most if not all of which came from attempting to get his hands on more meth and as far as I know the rest are dead or in some dilapidated meth den spending every cent they get on more while slowly wasting away. No offense to anyone who does meth, it's your choice but just don't let your decisions hurt other innocent people. I realize some people are able to use it somewhat responsibly and have the will power to avoid addiction.

Also if you don't mind me asking what ROA did you use for the speed (snorting, eating, IVing, etc)? Sorry if you already said, I was too lazy to go back and read it all over again.

I also thought of several drugs that might be very helpful but idk if they're available in Germany (don't keep up with the German pharmaceutical markets lol). First of all Wellbutrin (bupropion), which is a mild stimulant that is commonly used as an atypical antidepressant ( if I'm not mistaken it focuses on noradrenaline and dopamine, which are what become depleted after amphetamine abuse) it was originally (and still is) marketed to reduce or eliminate cravings for nicotine. I personally don't know if it works but I've heard of it being used off label for cravings/withdrawal for stimulants other than nicotine, ranging all the way from caffeine to coke/crack and speed. So it's worth thinking about, even if it isn't effective at stopping the cravings it should work great for depression (one of the best antidepressants on the market imo and I've been on just about every kind out there.) Drs (in the US at least) tend to give it out without hesitation especially if you're a smoker and have depression, if not its dirt cheap to buy on the street. Now you'll probably hear about using it recreationally at some point so I'm just going to go ahead and tell you to get that thought out of your head! I can tell you first hand it's awful, not a good high but still super addicting for some reason, burns worse than anything I've ever snorted in my life, completely cost me my sense of small in one nostril made me think I was gonna lose one eye because it burned so badly behind it making it water almost nonstop for days, causes nosebleeds so bad it'll freak you + anyone around out and hurts for days because apparently the assholws they put citric acid in. That was just my personal experience but it can also cause seizures that can be fatal at high doses and if you think of IVing it just take a quick look at people who did on google images and I can almost promise you'll change your mind (and probably puke) some look about as bad as krokodil (or however that's spelled). Also speaking of nicotine I personally find it great for milder cravings, but I wouldn't recommend this unless you already smoke because even if it seems better short term the long term damage will can possibly be as bad or worse for some people (yeah I know I'm a hypocrite lol.)
If you feel that you still need a stimulant to function maybe try Ritalin or something similar I can't remember the generic name off the top of my head. It has also been used successfully off label for stimulant withdrawal + cravings. It's not an amphetamine but it is very similar, it's potential for abuse is slightly less and as far as I know isn't neurotoxic until an ungodly amount is consumed.

Btw in the future don't lie about your doses (or anything else important) it can make it more difficult for us to help in some cases. If that sounds like I'm angry or something I apologize cause I'm really not, I just wanted you to understand that there's no reason to be insecure when you post as long as you stick to the rules. I think I speak for all (or at least most) of us here on the forum when I say we aren't here to judge you for your mistakes, we've all done stupid stuff at some point, our goal is to offer help to other members when they need it.

Once again good luck!

 

[JBrandon]

As I approach a decade of amphetamine use, I can tell you it is more than worth it to put your life on hold for a year and get a grip on your addiction than to try to struggle through.

 

[Gorillaboy21]

It's amazing how a German girl speaks and types in English so well , and it's funny how she's willing to drop everything and go to rehab just to not get in an argument with her mother ... amazing , imagine if American kids behaved that way

 

[keeping]

^ that's an oddly specific statement.. but i don't think that's a specifically German trait?
and as for her command of the English language, i guess she's just clever.

 

[pleasehelpjeff]

I don't know where to post because I'm new i wanted to know what causes tooth decay or rot on meth is it how you use the amount or length of time?