solipsism&acid - evil demon problem& bad trips

[LucidShroomDmtier]

Solipsism = the knowledge that you cant prove anything but yourself .

Due to my expirience with acid, i assume you create your own reality dependant on how you perceive world f.e optimistic-pessimistic,trippy - boring , music you like -music you dislike, etc. With acid we gain a strong reality alteration tool perceive things from subconcious perceive vibe in different ways f.e light as sound . our intention and imagination takes almost physical backbone.

from solipsism comes out evil demon problem = the knowledge that reality might be an illusion created by a demon which poseses us, modern version is the movie matrix - you cant prove that you are not perceive an illusionary enviroment , "the world is samsara-illusion" Budhha.

the most videly reported bad trip's can relate to ^ pretty easily , fear of loss of control , fear of nonexistance - of death, fear of insanity(=the belief that you perceive the world in altered way ,concious-unconcious).to be concious of=aware of. Awareness is reality . .


reality could be a really representative dream like state, in which you are so sucked into and atached to that you play along uncociously in a theater stage of a dreamworld universe samsara according to budhists
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages." William Shakespeare.

So far the "your world- our world" is matter of perception paradise or hell created by us .

 

[phuckingnutz]

Even if everything is an illusion...what's the difference? It's still "reality".
Reality is perception is reality...
When you think about it...can you even prove yourself ...?

 

[Hallucinogens R US]

^ right?! This thought process throws me into a serious loop. There's no knowing until we actually know

 

[transitionsynth]

I would like to reply to more of your post, but for the most part it's pretty unintelligible. Yes, psychedelic trips are highly solipsistic, but ever notice that when you come down and wake up the next there are other people knocking at your door that need your attention? Your spouse, your boss, your mother? Ever notice you can't trip on LSD every day, because it won't let you and because if you do your life will start going to shit because you aren't meeting the demands of other people?

If LSD makes you nihilistic and solipsistic, shit, I don't even want to know what the dissociatives do to you.

As for the evil demon problem, it's a false problem imposed by a highly artificial kind of methodological doubt like in Descartes' Meditations. Transcendental and existential investigations into the nature of phenomenology have shown that individual perception cannot exist except as involved in a "Self-Other-World" system. In fact psychedelic experiences highlight this. An LSD trip is like going into the solipsism of your own mind, but the reason an LSD trip is so strange is because our actual experience of the world is not solipsistic! We always return to the intersubjective world! Don't let LSD delude you into thinking your mind is the only one that exists! It's the way to megalomania and schizophrenia, not to enlightenment. I've seen it happen more than once. Yes, the evil demon problem is related to the fears that overcome us during bad trips! That's because solipsism is a kind of hell, a nightmare! And our world that we live in together, intersubjectively, is NOT a hell! It is a beautiful world where many things go very well on a daily basis! And more things could go better, if we so chose that! But we don't, because we choose to stay in our own minds. If LSD just reinforces this, then we should stop using it.

LSD allows us to unlearn these modes of solipsistic consciousness, where we all feel that we are self-sufficient, discrete entities, and makes us completely aware that the other must always be considered, that all that really matters in this life is how we treat other people, what lengths we will go to in order to help other people. Anything less than that and you are just hallucinating.

 

[swilow]

^I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the solipsism of your own mind"...Can you clarify?

Even if everything is an illusion...what's the difference? It's still "reality".
Reality is perception is reality...
When you think about it...can you even prove yourself ...?

Quite right. And given the relatively convincing way this illusion plays out, it makes more sense to assume that it is real and act accordingly.

reality could be a really representative dream like state, in which you are so sucked into and atached to that you play along uncociously in a theater stage of a dreamworld universe samsara according to budhists

In whose dream are we?

I tend to think that Buddhist ideas of illusion/Maya refer to the values we create and react under, rather then the notion that physical reality is not in fact extant. Buddhism says that both our arbitrary value systems and the way we use these to objectify the external world is illusory- our opinions are delusions- these lead us to think we are separate from the external world when we are a part of it.

At least that's how I see it...

 

[Ineffable14]

Reminds me of an essay I once read by Philip K Dick.
A lot of gnosis has to do with this philosophy.

I'll try an find the essay for you, I believe that touched on it in the last scene of "waking life"

 

[EntheoDjinn]

.................That's because solipsism is a kind of hell, a nightmare! And our world that we live in together, intersubjectively, is NOT a hell! It is a beautiful world where many things go very well on a daily basis! And more things could go better, if we so chose that! .........

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the latter sentence above, I can't help but wonder if the former represents a category error/mistake (a la G. Ryle). Solipsism is not a "thing" as such, but a world-view (thereby meaning it only needs to be a hell - or otherwise - if we choose to interpret it that way and then suffer existential terror at being totally alone - or omnipotent and end up getting looked after in an asylum). I prefer Bertrand Russell's criticism of solipsism - that it is a dead-end philosophical idea, and cannot be progressed in any meaningful way.

E

 

[[éS]Infinite]

Even if everything is an illusion...what's the difference? It's still "reality".
Reality is perception is reality...
When you think about it...can you even prove yourself ...?

Agreed, I feel Descartes never justified his famous phrase 'I think therefore I am' and only succeeded in proving that thought exists. How can we be certain that we are the source of our thoughts and perceptions, and that we are not simply receivers for these workings to be displayed.
It's all very interesting, and was the focus of many psychedelic experiences for me when I began tripping, however like you said, it makes no difference and no matter how deeply it is examined we may never be certain of it one way or another.

 

[LucidShroomDmtier]

making things clear , this philosophical views i found and put them to discussion because i found them tripy and explain some conciousness problems - mental illness, some altered states.Its not how i view the world in whole way .This views just put me in serious thought.

Even if everything is an illusion...what's the difference? It's still "reality".

illussion called "reality", the collective dream we share with others we cannot prove to exist

When you think about it...can you even prove yourself ...?

something that dose not exist is something that is not perceived. What do you perceive all the time you are awake?(yourself). other people do not exist until you perceive them (preventing misconceptions .they do not exist for you cause you cannot perceive them). Enviroments change in a fractal way as you travel the world and perceive diffrent things.
past becomes tiny and what is to come larger and more complex in a repetitive but yet unique way (f.e you travel town to town , its towns but everyone has its own unique character . people you meet etc.).

Yes, psychedelic trips are highly solipsistic, but ever notice that when you come down and wake up the next there are other people knocking at your door that need your attention?

i understand that you view solipsism as "forever alone" type of standing. No its not .
solipsism is a loophole that is acctually true lets make an experiment.
I am here in the moment i see my self i feel my self i breathe thoughts are coming in my mind im writing to you.but i can make only a hypothesis about f.e Bluelighters. only hypothesis about people in china north korea etc.Im not even sure that the one im quoting is going to read the answer i just make a gamble and hope things i write gonna be intresting to you .so we have a productive thinking time.

other people exist when i perceive them and im grateful for them most of the time . I love people and the planet there are alot of pottential for paradise .
Humans are the god of this planet its in our hand how merciful or furious he is .

As for the evil demon problem, it's a false problem imposed by a highly artificial kind of methodological doubt like in Descartes' Meditations.

evil demon problem serves the same purpose as a horror movie . its a scary story you cannot disaprove "very catchy".

We always return to the intersubjective world! Don't let LSD delude you into thinking your mind is the only one that exists! It's the way to megalomania and schizophrenia, not to enlightenment.

yes there is a collective conciousness outside the door obviously but you can make only hypothesis and assumptions about it . you become almost fully aware of other sentient being by eye contact speech by touch its almost the most close you can become aware of sombody/thing else though.megalomania=constant need for superiority(decease) and schizophrenia = load of symptoms that sums up what they call "schizophrenia". i see schizophrenia maybe something like a constant state of bad trip .

solipsism on the other hand is just logic: perceive the perceivable, live in the moment all else is fantazies and illusions past or indeffinite future .f.e go for that flower you want to smell its more real this way touch it gently its even more real.stare at it closely and notice the details then take a microscope :D .

there must be no extremes in that either. you must leave time for yourself to sleep eat drink water and meditate to regain your energy and be better and better each day .

In whose dream are we?

I tend to think that Buddhist ideas of illusion/Maya refer to the values we create and react under, rather then the notion that physical reality is not in fact extant. Buddhism says that both our arbitrary value systems and the way we use these to objectify the external world is illusory- our opinions are delusions- these lead us to think we are separate from the external world when we are a part of it.

At least that's how I see it...

in whose dream we are ? ...

a serious question, can you answer it ?

i will try .We with our tiny but yet powerful senses each one individually may grasp alitle of the big picture.which is the collective external conciousnes. and by focusing deep inside ourselfs we go deep inside the internal world which may contain alot of the external . if i try to explain solipsisticly each one is in a unique dream which happens through himself as himself and its dynamic with the external - the common dreamland we still are waking in every morning .

by the way i just saw putin speech accidentaly on youtube check it out its about the stuff outside there XD russia major collective conciousnes have to say through putin as putin .

and now a break.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

I tend to think that Buddhist ideas of illusion/Maya refer to the values we create and react under, rather then the notion that physical reality is not in fact extant.

that's the same I thought.
attachment - to thoughts, matter ect. - is an illusion, not reality itself