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Side effect mitigation of physiological symptoms of amphetamine using A/B blockers

S

Soulspark

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
35
Hey guys,

I'm a 25 year old male who has been taking amphetamine for maybe two years now (20-30 mg/day p.o.). I Have never abused amphetamines, but rarely skip a day. I also am hypertensive, and am prescribed propranolol (40 mg/day p.o.), for about a year (the hypertension is congenital, I've had it for many years). I've heard that beta blockers should not be used in conjunction with amphetamines due to a beta blockade, which might actually put extra stress on the heart. Whether that's true or not, I have found that co-administration of propranolol with amphetamine can somewhat "take the edge off". I've never actually asked my doctor about this contradiction, and he hasn't said anything to me about it. I had no side effects, so I thought it was fine. Anyway, getting the the point, since taking propranolol I've noticed that my sex drive is way down and I have gained some weight, and I am pretty depressed. Also, most easily spotted, my hair is falling out at a rapid rate. I'm aware I'm at the age where male-pattern baldness could first present, but the rate at which it is occurring seems much too quick to be caused by genetics alone. I understand that most, or all of the aforementioned side effects could be those of beta blockers. Obviously correlation doesn't prove causation, but do you think there is another viable option to treat my hypertension other than a beta blocker? I've tried ACE inhibitors, but they gave me anxiety (though they're supposed to have no side effects). What about Catapres? It works as an α agonist. I believe amphetamine works on α receptors, would catapres act like a competitive agonist with amphetamine, leaving only the psychoactive effects of amphetamine left?

TL;DR: Is there anything I can take for hypertension while taking amphetamine that isn't a beta blocker or ACE inhibitor that wouldn't give me bad side effects?

Thanks guys!
 
I have an anecdote for you: I take amphetamine occasionally and take a beta blocker every day. My hair falls out and had been before I started the beta blocker but it hasn't decreased in intensity, actually I probably lose less hair now than I did a month ago. It hasn't really affected my sex drive, but if it has then good riddance. As for depression it probably has increased it a bit. You decide if its worth it.

Don't go by what you hear unless you find a peer-reviewed, scientific journal article on it; then you ask your doctor (you'll hear this a lot from me). That's the bottom line: tell your doctor (who has had at least eight years of medical schooling) about your issues. I understand you're not necessarily trying to medicate yourself but its close.

Benzodiazepines and gabaergics can treat hypertension but do you really want to risk the brain damage, addiction, accompanying horrible withdrawal, decreased cognition, and other horrible side-effects?
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
I have an anecdote for you: I take amphetamine occasionally and take a beta blocker every day. My hair falls out and had been before I started the beta blocker but it hasn't decreased in intensity, actually I probably lose less hair now than I did a month ago. It hasn't really affected my sex drive, but if it has then good riddance. As for depression it probably has increased it a bit. You decide if its worth it.

Don't go by what you hear unless you find a peer-reviewed, scientific journal article on it; then you ask your doctor (you'll hear this a lot from me). That's the bottom line: tell your doctor (who has had at least eight years of medical schooling) about your issues. I understand you're not necessarily trying to medicate yourself but its close.

Benzodiazepines and gabaergics can treat hypertension but do you really want to risk the brain damage, addiction, accompanying horrible withdrawal, decreased cognition, and other horrible side-effects?
Click to expand...


Okay this post is full of lies and half-truth, benzodiazepine use, in the normal medicinal doses, (not 80mg of clonazepam/20 mg of xanax a day etc i keep hearing some people do.) Of course I detest needing (now) valium but it's only 20mg a day, sometimes less, 20mg is a guideline and that for sure isn't over-use. To me the strongest dosage pill available of a benzo should not be taken more than twice a day. No brain damage has been proven to result from such use.

As for alpha/beta blockers, I have used both, as I already had a kinda high pressure thing going on even before I got on a script for adderall xr then dex ir and spansules. Inderal (b-blocker) was amazing at first but then i would get weird, probably electrical in nature problems where I would get a lot of PVC's, even though they are in theory harmless they are very annoying. Clonidine (alpha blocker) is just WONDERFUL tho, they generally do not want people on both stimulants and beta blockers, but alpha blockers are much much safer to use and clonidine and I bet guanfenicine? (Tenex, we don't have it in canada, but i'm sure i'd find it great). Clonidine allows me to fall asleep within 30 minutes, often less, after even binging for a couple days on my add aids, which I rarely do anyway, I only party like that when I'm with a certain woman. Like before I ever considered to treat my add and was doing street speed pills (extremely common here) here and there for 4-5 years. I didn't know then about other options that Ritalin (methylphenidate gave me seizures). If there is one med you feel like bashing, you should pick Ritalin. Dexamphetamine has an extremely long history of use and people developing physical problems *of concern* is still lower than 1% when used correctly. Can't say that for ritalin.

Yeah I forgot to mention clonidine is an alpha agonist....i'm confused about how that works...even a doctor once was telling me it was an alpha blocker when I was saying no I keep reading it's agonist and we were both confused....if someone can put light on this please do.
 
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THE_REAL_OBLIVION said:
Yeah I forgot to mention clonidine is an alpha agonist....i'm confused about how that works...even a doctor once was telling me it was an alpha blocker when I was saying no I keep reading it's agonist and we were both confused....if someone can put light on this please do.
Click to expand...

You're right clonidine is an alpha agonist (alpha2 specifically). Alpha 2 acts as an autoreceptor, so activating it reduces norepinephrine release, and thus reduces adrenergic effects. I can see why you're doctor was confused, it seems backwards that an alpha agonist has anti-adrenergic effects, but that's the case.
 
THE_REAL_OBLIVION said:
Okay this post is full of lies and half-truth, benzodiazepine use, in the normal medicinal doses, (not 80mg of clonazepam/20 mg of xanax a day etc i keep hearing some people do.) Of course I detest needing (now) valium but it's only 20mg a day, sometimes less, 20mg is a guideline and that for sure isn't over-use. To me the strongest dosage pill available of a benzo should not be taken more than twice a day. No brain damage has been proven to result from such use.

As for alpha/beta blockers, I have used both, as I already had a kinda high pressure thing going on even before I got on a script for adderall xr then dex ir and spansules. Inderal (b-blocker) was amazing at first but then i would get weird, probably electrical in nature problems where I would get a lot of PVC's, even though they are in theory harmless they are very annoying. Clonidine (alpha blocker) is just WONDERFUL tho, they generally do not want people on both stimulants and beta blockers, but alpha blockers are much much safer to use and clonidine and I bet guanfenicine? (Tenex, we don't have it in canada, but i'm sure i'd find it great). Clonidine allows me to fall asleep within 30 minutes, often less, after even binging for a couple days on my add aids, which I rarely do anyway, I only party like that when I'm with a certain woman. Like before I ever considered to treat my add and was doing street speed pills (extremely common here) here and there for 4-5 years. I didn't know then about other options that Ritalin (methylphenidate gave me seizures). If there is one med you feel like bashing, you should pick Ritalin. Dexamphetamine has an extremely long history of use and people developing physical problems *of concern* is still lower than 1% when used correctly. Can't say that for ritalin.

Yeah I forgot to mention clonidine is an alpha agonist....i'm confused about how that works...even a doctor once was telling me it was an alpha blocker when I was saying no I keep reading it's agonist and we were both confused....if someone can put light on this please do.
Click to expand...

The only thing I got out of your post as a response to mine - which you mistakenly said was "full of lies and half-truth" - was that you don't think benzodiazepines cause brain damage, which is funny because you're on them. I can tell you you're wrong, but I don't really care what you do.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
The only thing I got out of your post as a response to mine - which you mistakenly said was "full of lies and half-truth" - was that you don't think benzodiazepines cause brain damage, which is funny because you're on them. I can tell you you're wrong, but I don't really care what you do.
Click to expand...


This all depends on how you define "damage."
 
I know plenty of doctors who themselves are on light benzo usage. Most of them were pretty party heavy too when I was doing my Master's in another field but at the same university as them.Benzos in small usage is even safer than alcohol, alcohol is a dirty drug which hits the brain as a whole...kinda like tramadol, I'd be more than ready to believe tramadol long term is horrible and causes this or that than benzo use, other than kindling, which apparently, is a rarity with benzos and known more to happen with binge drinking. I have read some studies looking for ways to call some of the changes observed in the brain as "bad" while using even low doses of benzos everyday but to me it looked more like they were especially looking for negative changes and never once discussed the live saving effects it has on some people.
 
Have you looked at other medications like statins? Statins are kind of the closest thing we have to wonder drugs for hypertension right now.
 
Epsilon Alpha said:
Have you looked at other medications like statins? Statins are kind of the closest thing we have to wonder drugs for hypertension right now.
Click to expand...

If ace blockers gave you anxiety, at1 blockers might be anxiolytic by increase in angiotensin, candesartan has been reported to be anxiolytic by some people.

Statins for blood pressure? Tought they just inhibited cholesterol synthesis and were anti inflammatory, they are close to wonderdrugs for autoimmume disorders tough.
 
I forget but I think there's a drug i've used in the past which are used to counter bad effects by statins but I forgot what...let me try to google that..Oh yeah, it's the wonderful Co Q10 I was taking all that time when I was on Dexedrine, it really did something to protect my heart, reduced blood pressure significantly.
 
MeDieViL said:
Statins for blood pressure? Tought they just inhibited cholesterol synthesis and were anti inflammatory, they are close to wonderdrugs for autoimmume disorders tough.
Click to expand...

I think the general consensus is that statins slightly, but significantly lower blood pressure, unrelated to their cholesterol lowering potential. I don't think any are indicated for that purpose though.

Do statins reduce blood pressure?: a meta-analysis of randomized, controlled trials.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17309949
 
Im a big fan of arb blockers, they have some controversie around them tough but show a ton of health benefits, losartan wich also blocks AT2 would avoid the possibly increase in mortality.
 
Yeah i just finished a pack of candesartan, would love to try losartan, also candesartan blocks amp sensitization if its relevant to this thread.

Epsilon Alpha said:
Losartan is worth a shot for hypertension assuming its not secondary to dyslipidemia. It does actually reduce all cause mortality as well which is somewhat interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21224459/
Click to expand...

Hmm strange, arb blockers are controversial as they can increase mortality due to AT2 agonism, but candesartan beats losartan, eh? need to look into this more.
 
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