• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Shulgins ++++

90sdance

90sdance

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
401
Aside from MDMA what other drugs did shulgin rate at ++++ ? There was one where he described total control over everything, inc a cat. Recollections ?
 
I guess the Shulgin's scale is about levels of depth in a drug experience, specially suited for complex experiences as psychedelics, but even if the scale determine some objective "marks" those marks are subjectively felt, so for someone 40mg of 4-ho-mipt could be a +++ and for other person a ++++ and actually be like that, for physiological reasons, set, setting.... etc.
I actually don't remember the entire Shulgin's experiences but I guess it would be pretty odd if he only rated mdma with a ++++ taking account what DMT, 5-meo-DMT or other psychedelics can do...
 
Neuroborean said:
I guess the Shulgin's scale is about levels of depth in a drug experience, specially suited for complex experiences as psychedelics, but even if the scale determine some objective "marks" those marks are subjectively felt, so for someone 40mg of 4-ho-mipt could be a +++ and for other person a ++++ and actually be like that, for physiological reasons, set, setting.... etc.
I actually don't remember the entire Shulgin's experiences but I guess it would be pretty odd if he only rated mdma with a ++++ taking account what DMT, 5-meo-DMT or other psychedelics can do...
Click to expand...

I find people put too much emphasis on potency. I always found LSD to be potent, but it lacks the kind of spiritual depth delivered by MDMA (when its pure and not being abused). LSD puts you in touch with some level of consciousness in the earth, the sky, the water and so on - but i think as a species our most profound experience is the force generated between people. It is the experience of coming to peace with humanity, to see the unique beauty in each person and have concern for all. For me it was this that put MDMA in a class of its own. There are drugs with more intense visuals and physical sensations but none of them felt truly transcendental. Of course the more you use the more it becomes like a mere better version of speed (albeit much better). Pretty much every other psychedelic iv ever tried has only had a superficial quality re spiritual value.
 
Last edited:
90sdance said:
I find people put too much emphasis on potency. I always found LSD to be potent, but it lacks the kind of spiritual depth delivered by MDMA (when its pure and not being abused). LSD puts you in touch with some level of consciousness in the earth, the sky, the water and so on - but i think as a species our most profound experience is the force generated between people. It is the experience of coming to peace with humanity, to see the unique beauty in each person and have concern for all. For me it was this that put MDMA in a class of its own. There are drugs with more intense visuals and physical sensations but none of them felt truly transcendental. Of course the more you use the more it becomes like a mere better version of speed (albeit much better). Pretty much every other psychedelic iv ever tried has only had a superficial quality re spiritual value.
Click to expand...
I talked about 4-ho-mipt cause I consider it a very spiritual substance,
sometimes it has a dark undertone (also for 5-meo-mipt that can be even harsher sometimes) but it always very rewarding,
I see miprocin as some kind of Logos- Subconcious emotional trauma Tuner/Modulator, it's fucking amazing how potent, in terms of cathartic it can become if you know how to work with that substance.
I feel that LSD is kinda similar in it's rational approach, but it lacks the subconscious approach I think, I'm just too entitled with my rational power to break through in actual subconscious territory, but well, maybe it's because I never used high doses of LSD, so I wouldn't swear anything.
I honestly like 6-APB and high dose 3-MMC more than MDMA, but I guess mdma can be even more suited for spiritual work, I just didn't try enough times and in the correct setting.
 
Interesting. For me is the other way.

Sure, I have had quite beautiful and spiritual MDMA takes, mostly the first ones. But later it becomes a bit fake. Like you know all the love are feeling for this stranger its a mirage and will fade in 2-3 days when you go down to real life

While pretty muh any psych is pure, genuine and transcends the trip itself. What I love under the effect I keep loving it after. Its honest and guaraantees the truth of the feelings of the moment.

Of course set and seeting can change pretty much anything, but going to the core nature I would say nothing beats a 5ht psych as a spiritual tool.

5hts>dissos>empathogens>the rest
 


a ++++ is total control of the universe you have super powers like telekensis and become god.

He never had a plus four on mdma.

He only ever had about two to three
 
Last edited:
TripSitterNZ said:


a ++++ is total control of the universe you have super powers like telekensis and become god.

He never had a plus four on mdma.

He only ever had about two to three
Click to expand...


Yes people often forget a ++++ is an experience most will only have once maybe 2-3x if they are lucky. Many trip their whole lives and never get a ++++. It’s the type of experience that changes someone fundamentally for the rest of their life, all preconceived notions are erased. It’s not just a really strong trip like many want to equate a plus4 as.. That’s a +++.

+ = threshold/light trip
++ = medium/solid experience
+++ = very strong experience, fully immersed, in the case of DMT this is your breakthrough
++++ = transcendental, without explanation

-GC
 
Last edited:
G_Chem said:
Yes people often forget a ++++ is an experience most will only have once maybe 2-3x if they are lucky. Many trip their whole lives and never get a ++++. It’s the type of experience that changes someone fundamentally for the rest of their life, all preconceived notions are erased. It’s not just a really strong trip like many want to equate a plus4 as.. That’s a +++.

+ = threshold/light trip
++ = medium/solid experience
+++ = very strong experience, fully immersed, in the case of DMT this is your breakthrough
++++ = transcendental, without explanation

-GC
Click to expand...
In my case my breakthrough on DMT was trascendental, I just couldn't believe what had happent, I was saying: "oohh fuck,,, oh fuck, incredible, I don't believe it!" for more than 15 minutes straight, and I couldn't really understand what happent, I was frightened, full of awe, full of gratitude to be here again, with my most deep thoughts solidly anchored but at the same time re-arranged, like a new dimension of being myself.
It was so fucking different of other psychedelic experiences of my life. I think going to another dimension it's itself trascendental, but well, maybe depends on the breakthrough
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top