Seizure after kratom

[ronthetiger]

I know bringing negative light to kratom is generally looked down upon; we ought to all try and minimize the negative light shone on this herb, as it is a godsend to some and a relatively benign weekend indulgence for others. However, for the sake of the scientific community and harm reduction, I feel compelled to post a short report about a seizure I had whilst on kratom.

I've been using kratom one and off for about two years; I consider myself to be incredibly experienced and have experimented with different dosages, finding my 'sweet spot' to be 7g. However, two nights ago was very different, and very very unexpected and terrifying. I didn't have a proper tablespoon to measure out my dose precisely, so I eyeballed what looked to me to be 7 grams and consumed it over the course of an hour. About 2-3 hours later, as I was laying in bed watching a movie, I (according to the witness, as I have zero recollection of anything from here on out) shot straight up, proceeded to lose consciousness, and fell straight off the bed. From here I began having a grand mal siezure. When I finally came to about a minute or so later, I was surrounded by EMT's and was put into an ambulance. All MRI, CAT scans, blood tests, and EKG scans showed nothing out of the ordinary with my brain or body. I find it extremely odd that kratom may have caused this, but it's the only other thing that I can think of which was "abnormal."

The thing that really irks me is the spontaneity of this event; I have never had a seizure before and it literally seemed to come out of nowhere. I had not ingested any other drugs (besides caffeine) that day or the day before, and I was not withdrawing off anything either. The only thing I can think to attribute the seizure to was the kratom - which, in past experiences, with high doses I have experienced the brain/body 'ZAPS' people report sometimes having with kratom.

If anyone else has any information regarding this please share.

 

[CfZrx]

Hi Ron, I too have had a bad medical reaction to strong kratom, before I started properly measuring (I usually do 1 teaspoon, sometimes as much as 2). I had mixed too much kratom that night with some seroquel. And then I took a big rip of hash-laced weed. My heart took off so bad I thought I might die, and I'm lucky I didn't. The hashweed was what did it, but the kratom I believe had put me in the position for this incident. I think we need to strongly promote careful measuring! To me 7 grams sounds like too much. What is that, 2 or 3 teaspoons? Good post.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

7 grams is around 1 level tablespoon.

 

[ronthetiger]

Yes, 7 grams is about 1 level tablespoon, or 3 teaspoons.
On this occasion I didn't measure my dose, but I usually do.

7 grams is a fairly hefty dose for an opiate naive individual, but I don't think it's too terribly uncommon.. If anyone has any scientific articles regarding this let me know! I can't seem to find anything :[

 

[annalanjackson]

My husband has been using Kratom for a little over 2 years and he definitely took way too much tonight. He had a Grand Mal seizure on the playground in front of our children. On another note he is a recovering alcoholic and thought this drug was the thing that could help him stay clean from alcohol. Well, I really think this drug is dangerous. His seizure was so bad he stopped breathing. I actually had to give him three rescue breaths until he started to breath on his own. He then threw it up in the ambulance on the way to the ER. I just wanted more people to realize the danger this drug may have. I don't think it's as helpful as everyone claims it to be, especially if you are an addict.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I'm sorry that happened to your husband and I hope he fully recovers.

I disagree with the last part of your post as would thousands of others who have had nothing but positive experiences on kratom. I'm an addict and kratom has been very useful for helping with chronic pain, coming off of opiates, Lyrica and even benzos I've been taking kratom for 4+ years and more or less daily for well over 2 years.

 

[Edaw'Naflagn]

I've also had a seizure after taking a good amount of caps of kratom maybe a year ago from now and I had to take like 6 temazepam 15mg pills to kill it and it was horrid and very scary!

 

[growit&smokeit]

Wow never heard of this before. I have been doing kratom every now and then for 11 years, the stuff around now is a lot better quality than it used to be. I have had occasional bad experiences with Kratom that seem to happen at random. Smoking weed can sometimes really amplify the effects of kratom leading to a feeling that you are just about to pass out and being on the edge of a panic attack. Occasionally it can take days to recover from taking kratom.

What strains of kratom caused these seizures?

 

[Slow_Mobius]

The big issue here is that we can't know what anyone is actually taking. The products could have been enhanced with something else

 

[Mycophile]

Hi Ron, I too have had a bad medical reaction to strong kratom, before I started properly measuring (I usually do 1 teaspoon, sometimes as much as 2). I had mixed too much kratom that night with some seroquel. And then I took a big rip of hash-laced weed. My heart took off so bad I thought I might die, and I'm lucky I didn't. The hashweed was what did it, but the kratom I believe had put me in the position for this incident. I think we need to strongly promote careful measuring! To me 7 grams sounds like too much. What is that, 2 or 3 teaspoons? Good post.

Why wouldn't you consider the Seroquel to be possibly the main potentiator of your reaction??

Out of weed, Kratom and Seroquel, IMO there's no question that Seroquel is the most dangerous of the three, and perhaps if you had not taken it and only taken the week and Kratom you might not have had that reaction.

 

[Mycophile]

My husband has been using Kratom for a little over 2 years and he definitely took way too much tonight. He had a Grand Mal seizure on the playground in front of our children. On another note he is a recovering alcoholic and thought this drug was the thing that could help him stay clean from alcohol. Well, I really think this drug is dangerous. His seizure was so bad he stopped breathing. I actually had to give him three rescue breaths until he started to breath on his own. He then threw it up in the ambulance on the way to the ER. I just wanted more people to realize the danger this drug may have. I don't think it's as helpful as everyone claims it to be, especially if you are an addict.

While I am very sorry your husband experienced this, incidents like this are not necessarily indicative that Kratom is not safe for the majority of users.

The problem, as one poster pointed out, is we don't have quality control with Kratom and it is possible for people to taint their products with other chemicals.

I don't believe MOST vendors do it, but it has happened in the past and could happen again.

But then the problem becomes that IF the FDA intervenes (which they already are) instead of simply making sure that Kratom products are untainted with foreign chemicals and letting it stay legal, they are influencing the DEA to make it illegal, which it should not be IMO.

I don't think Kratom is free of dangers either, and everyone who uses it should be aware of what other medications they take and any prior conditions they may have, but it is not IMO as dangerous as alcohol so it should stay legal.

I hope your husband has recovered well and avoids future Kratom use.

 

[Edaw'Naflagn]

Wow never heard of this before. I have been doing kratom every now and then for 11 years, the stuff around now is a lot better quality than it used to be. I have had occasional bad experiences with Kratom that seem to happen at random. Smoking weed can sometimes really amplify the effects of kratom leading to a feeling that you are just about to pass out and being on the edge of a panic attack. Occasionally it can take days to recover from taking kratom.

What strains of kratom caused these seizures?

The strain I had was simple Mengdah (don't know how to spell it lol) and the thing is it was sold at a headshop and just seemed to be a odd off color and even taste for some reason I think it was old kratom and was made from the shitty parts of the tree instead of the leaves. Also this 30 capsule bottle was > no prices <! Crazy shit! Reason I never bought kratom from any headshops every again after that experience. I never ONCE had a problem on kratom bought from legit growers and or from online vendors, which at that time really understood how to grow, collect, & then work it into the powder/gunk they would make like hash when I got it from South East Asia- I know, yes, "the shit was like hash!? That's not kratom!" But no it was and most would melt it in their tea at night to sleep and help with back pain or pain of working all day. So yeah, some kratom can cause problems but I agree with you that normally it doesn't have nearly as many side effects as other drugs do. Also, this was ONE experience only. Never once has a problem with kratom after that one issue.

 

[Edaw'Naflagn]

Yes, 7 grams is about 1 level tablespoon, or 3 teaspoons.
On this occasion I didn't measure my dose, but I usually do.

7 grams is a fairly hefty dose for an opiate naive individual, but I don't think it's too terribly uncommon.. If anyone has any scientific articles regarding this let me know! I can't seem to find anything :[

I agree- I never messured out my kratom doses either man I would use up to an ounce every 4 days and was using it while drinking beer/taking benzo's too. It wasnt smart I know I even ODed off kratom due to me mixing benzo's, & OxyCodone too due to me getting my wisdom teeth out. I was in so much pain, one, due to me having 7 teeth removed, & two, ITS wisdom teeth removal! Haha but for real that's the only other problem I've had on kratom and it blam the mix of benzo's and opiates not so much the kratom but at the same time right after taking 10 grams about an hour later I slowly started to OD and forced myself to puke. Instantly felt better and was waaaay to high man. It was kinda scary after I threw everything up, drank a load of water puked again, then more water, & I was good but like I said waaaaay to fucked up & hammered.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Just for the record I've seen quite a few reports online from people have symptoms of SS and even seizures combining kratom with antipsychotics and or tramadol

 

[camjua]

I just wanna say this, you cannot say 'kratom caused a seizure" because you have no idea what else is going on with your body.

Someone had said earlier that their husband had a seizure while on kratom... but he used it to quit alcohol. Alcohol can cause seizures in withdrawal and it is neurotoxic so it is linked to seizures later on as well even months after quitting drinking. Kratom has been used for thousands of years and seizures are not common with it. Some people can have seizures from even insignificant drugs like caffeine... it's a rare reaction... but it doesn't mean caffeine is a dangerous drug. Caffeine is arguably more dangerous than kratom according to a lot of scientific evidence.

Sorry this is just one of those things that irks me with people. They take something, something else happens then they blame it on that original something... even though life is incredibly complex and so is the human body. You could have had a seizure because of a vitamin deficiency, a bad reaction to kratom or caffeine, lack of sleep etc. Seizures can be caused by hundreds of different reasons. Some people have seizures chronically for essentially no reason... its definitely not something you should assume kratom caused or call it a bad drug. The fact of the matter is, if your husband keeps drinking he risks DUIs, liver and kidney disease, heart disease, brain damage, memory loss, diabetes, cancer, esophageal damage, etc. Kratom is 10,000 times safer than alcoholism. Even if the kratom caused a seizure, it still wouldn't be as dangerous as chronic alcohol use. Alcohol is arguably the most damaging and destructive drug that exists. It's withdrawals can even kill people. My suggestion is, see a doctor immediately about your husband's seizure and find out what caused it. If they can't figure it out, I'd say keep using the kratom unless another seizure happens. If that happens then it may be possible that his brain is not able to handle kratoms effects.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

SOME kratom alkaloids could be epileptogenic, convulsants in excess. Mitragynine pseudindoxyl, which forms via oxidation of mitragynine in air, in aged kratom samples IIRC would be the likely suspect, as its a delta opioid receptor agonist, and some DOR agonists although not all, are convulsants in excess. DOR1 is the receptor of which agonist ligands are convulsants IIRC rather than DOR2.

I've tried alpha-chloromorphide before, and I think thats a DOR agonist, plus heroin is a DOR agonist more than its a MOR1 agonist in morphine dependent subjects, and can be convulsive in excess, the alpha chloromorphide fits all the profile hallmarks of a DOR agonist, being more of a psychostimulant in a weird, pod tea-like way rather than any amphetamineesque way. Weird, weird shit, and it made me have tremors and minor myoclonic/clonic twitching in the distal extremities at the highest doses taken. Alpha-chloromorphide did relieve WD from morphia or oxycodone but if someone who knew not what was in a rig, were to shoot me with alpha-chloromorphide whilst I were blindfolded I'd have said it was an extremely selective DARI, reminiscent of desoxypipradrol although not so long lasting, and somewhat also of thebaine/pod tea. Weird stimulant, very different from anything I've ever tasted before.


But as for kratom, mitragynine pseudindoxyl is the most likely suspect, or else maybe rynchophylline, or other yohimbine-like compounds from kratom.

 

[jcd3]

Epileptic seizure from Kratom use

I experienced quite a similar event last night with no obvious culprit to blame other than Kratom. Typically I am an advocate of all forms of pharmaceutical and personal exploration; but, I am writing this post to caution such blind approaches to Kratom and other herbs we are conditioned to think of as more safe because they are plants.

Approximately a full twenty four hours and thirty minutes after ingesting between 5 and 7 grams, a mildly epileptic friend had an uncharacteristic, sudden and terrifying seizure in the midst of an innocent study session. We suspect the mild withdrawal from Kratom triggered this episode as this individual has never had a seizure at that magnitude or duration. In the past, he was only afflicted by the infrequent mild jerk, so I'm sure you can imagine the pure terror all present felt, and the bewilderment as to what could have brought this on. I was forced to call an ambulance and can vividly recall the degree of the seizure, and the violent onset that initiated it.

I can think of no other explanation for this episode outside of the effects of Kratom on epilepsy coupled with environmental factors. Especially perplexing, is two close associates of mine have also been drinking on near an ounce in the last days with no clear side effects to report. From this experience it seems clear there is a correlation in a lower seizure threshold for those suffering from epilepsy and withdrawing from Kratom.

I know bringing negative light to kratom is generally looked down upon; we ought to all try and minimize the negative light shone on this herb, as it is a godsend to some and a relatively benign weekend indulgence for others. However, for the sake of the scientific community and harm reduction, I feel compelled to post a short report about a seizure I had whilst on kratom.

I've been using kratom one and off for about two years; I consider myself to be incredibly experienced and have experimented with different dosages, finding my 'sweet spot' to be 7g. However, two nights ago was very different, and very very unexpected and terrifying. I didn't have a proper tablespoon to measure out my dose precisely, so I eyeballed what looked to me to be 7 grams and consumed it over the course of an hour. About 2-3 hours later, as I was laying in bed watching a movie, I (according to the witness, as I have zero recollection of anything from here on out) shot straight up, proceeded to lose consciousness, and fell straight off the bed. From here I began having a grand mal siezure. When I finally came to about a minute or so later, I was surrounded by EMT's and was put into an ambulance. All MRI, CAT scans, blood tests, and EKG scans showed nothing out of the ordinary with my brain or body. I find it extremely odd that kratom may have caused this, but it's the only other thing that I can think of which was "abnormal."

The thing that really irks me is the spontaneity of this event; I have never had a seizure before and it literally seemed to come out of nowhere. I had not ingested any other drugs (besides caffeine) that day or the day before, and I was not withdrawing off anything either. The only thing I can think to attribute the seizure to was the kratom - which, in past experiences, with high doses I have experienced the brain/body 'ZAPS' people report sometimes having with kratom.

If anyone else has any information regarding this please share.

 

[Coolwhip]

I don't want to appear as if I am writing off any possible connection, but the 2 cases shared are anecdotal. With one user being an admitted epileptic and the other having a long history of kratom use without incident. Sometimes people have seizures with no obvious cause, and they never happen again. It happens more often than you'd think. I would more readily believe that explanation than put any heft into whatever intuitive explanations are put forth unless it happened again, or was happening to more people. Given the number of people who have been taking kratom and the length of time its been in use I would expect you'd see more reports if it was truly to blame. Now, if you are saying kratom can bring forth seizures in people predisposed to them when combined with the right environmental factors...that's a whole nother ballgame, but even in those cases I would say the problem lies more with the patient than kratom.