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Scopolamine

C

clubcard

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
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I would never dare try a plant-based source of this compound but happily it's in a pharmacy medication [P] namely Buscopan in the form of the butylbromide (so it won't cross the BBB). Well, if you crush up 3-5 pills really fine and smoke it - you are at the bottom end of the scale. 5 gave me a total inability to tell fact from fiction, smoke non-existent fags and talk to myself in the mirror believing it was another person.

I did NOT enjoy it but for those people who MUST try everything, this is a safer way. I hear it's already caught on (in a small way) in some countries but set,setting & sitter are all 100% required.

I am SURE that the thermal dequaternization also leads to nasty things and the binder is some kind of sugar so NOT GOOD FOR YOU but for someone like me, with a limited shelf-life due to illness, I had to give it a try. Oh, and it makes opiates stronger so mixing could be fatal.

Be safe,
CC
 
I would really not recommend using this stuff in any form unless you're a datura sadhu. Shittiest, most difficult drug experience you'll ever have. it's not fun, it's not interesting, it's not pretty, it's not spiritual, it probably won't teach you anything (besides maybe how afraid you really are of dying) and it might give you horrible side effects. In higher doses it feels like dying. The only difference is, it lasts 3 days and at the end you still exist, so at some point in the future you'll have to go through that again. My philosophy is, don't go through the process of dying any more times than is absolutely necessary.

ON TOP OF THAT, it potentially causes brain damage and memory loss. Certain tribes in the americas used to use datura as a manhood passage ceremony. Only about 40% of the boys who took it survived, and those who did, lost many memories of their childhood. The tribe does this on purpose, so that their new warriors can "forget what it's like to be a boy and learn to kill". I've lost childhood memories myself from using deleriants such as this.

DO NOT TAKE SCOPOLAMINE
 
Can you give references to the 40% survival thing? I have looked and can't find it. It's use by criminals in S.America is becoming an issue but I'm not reading about 100s of deaths, just 100s of people losing everything. Whatever you say, some people WILL try everything so a simple DON'T isn't HR. The pill thing is catching on so a guide is useful. Reference? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24494624 http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/4/220.full.pdf - just search the web. Prisoners are 1 groups (as they are for Quietipine abuse).
 
Although I'm wary about advising anyone go anywhere near this stuff, I do think the thread title should have Scopolamine spelt correctly in it...
 
I like the message of this thread. I do believe that deliriants are risky and potentially quite toxic, but that doesn't mean that countless more people aren't going to do them regardless of any warnings, so spreading safety information is by far the best thing you can do. At least with a controlled scopolamine dosage you will also only be getting a drug which is primarily anticholinergic as well, unlike diphenhydramine which is also going to be causing other forms of toxicity in the form of technical overdose of an antihistamine, a sodium channel blocker, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and whatever else might be lurking in its muddled pharmacology.

Also, CrypticArc, scopolamine may not be fun, pretty, spiritual, or educational, but not interesting? That I simply cannot agree with. Deliriants are some of the most interesting things I've ever encountered. And I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there is actually a (shockingly) huge fan base for using diphenhydramine... and while it does definitely come with negative side effects of use, I've never heard anyone outside of you complain of losing childhood memories before even after several uses. I surely didn't. As for those tribes, forgetting about their childhood is just another part of their rite of passage.... They're going to work on making it happen whether the drug helps them or not, which is quite different from a drug just destroying your memories.
 
Well to be fair, scopolamine and diphenhydramine aren't the same drug. Scopolamine is much more powerful and dangerous.
 
Do you have scientific evidence that that is actually true when they are both taken in controlled dosages?
 
No, I must admit it's just my perception from years of discussion. But maybe someone can chime in.
 
Hopefully they will, I actually would love to see some evidence on this one way or the other lol. I don't mean to claim that it's definitely not the case either, I just wish to challenge the idea that scopolamine must be more dangerous than diphenhydramine because Datura and other tropane-containing plants are more dangerous than diphenhydramine; that I will not deny, but a plant containing several active alkaloids in wildly varying amounts is not really a fair base to judge a single one of said chemicals from. Taking a look at the PDSP Ki Database, it would appear that scopolamine and diphenhydramine are about equally non-selective between the five muscarinic receptors, and as antagonists they should have equal activities at those sites, as opposed to functionally selective agonists for example. The only difference I can see on that database is that diphenhydramine also has activity at H1 and alpha-adrenergic receptors, which goes back to me previous concern: diphenhydramine does all kinds of weird pharmacological things, almost entirely recreationally undesirable things, that could potentially add in more kinds of toxicity at increasingly higher doses. So my thought is, if you can choose between two molecules with hypothetically equal "desirable" targets, wouldn't you rather take the one without all the undesirable ones as well?

As for the originally addressed issue though, I also cannot deny that diphenhydramine and scopolamine are different drugs and therefore may impact the mind differently, regardless of which one is more "dangerous". But I have also never heard of lost childhood memories from recreational users of tropanes before.... Maybe I've just met all the lucky ones.
 
clubcard said:
Can you give references to the 40% survival thing? I have looked and can't find it. It's use by criminals in S.America is becoming an issue but I'm not reading about 100s of deaths, just 100s of people losing everything. Whatever you say, some people WILL try everything so a simple DON'T isn't HR. The pill thing is catching on so a guide is useful. Reference? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24494624 http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/4/220.full.pdf - just search the web. Prisoners are 1 groups (as they are for Quietipine abuse).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I don't have the source, but in children, the actives in datura are much more potent. I learned all of this from my mother, who studied plants, and certainly made sure I avoided the belladonna growing outside due to the increased potency in children. Also, they did this, in addition, to weed out the weaker members. Sorry again.
 
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/video/colombian-devil-s-breath-1-of-2

I've referenced every fact I stated, I still find it hard to believe a tribe is killing 60% of it's young men. I can't find anything on the internet as well as asking Erowid.

Buscopan tablets have 10mg of buscopan butylbromide and the paper 'Formation of Scopolamine from N-ButylScopolammonium Bromide in Cigarettes' reference states that 10mg yields 100 to 150 µg. I think crushed & vaped tablets may give more but the important thing is that you can't get anywhere NEAR the quoted LD50 Scopolamine Hydrobromide. Rat LD50. (oral) 1270mg/kg. Rat LD50. (subcutaneous). 3800mg/kg. Mouse LD50. (intraperitoneal). 650mg/kg http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-253544.pdf/
I suspect the human LD50 is a lot lower but I've heard of people surviving 50mg oral.

Plant sources will have a mixture of alkaloids (is there hyoscyamine in there as well?). I note that the T1/2 in humans is only 4.5 hours and when I smoked 5, it was over in about 4 hours because it's redistributed in the body...

All I can say is that I had a short trip but it was like the experience reports I read afterwards. One thing I DO note is the presence of an epoxide - these are rarely compatible with a non-toxic compound because the ring-strain means it's pretty keen to open. All in all, like Stratford upon Avon, it wasn't good or bad and I don't feel the need to revisit. I only mention this because it has been noted that the tablets are being abused and the references prove it.

I guess, from here, about the only place to go is to get a large aquarium and get some dream fish. WHY 5-bromo DMT isn't instantly N-demethylated by the MAOs, I don't know, but there are enough reports spread over hundreds of years. I doubt that aquariums will be the new stamping ground for legal-highs, but the idea is not without it's charm; maybe the DMT pixies become 5-Br DMT dolphins?
 
Like I said, it is MUCH more dangerous for children to ingest nightshades/deleriants. You may even hear of children dying of eating only a couple belladonna berries. Also, the number was 40%. My mistake. 60% survived. although, due to my lack of source, I can't really confirm the details with 100% accuracy anyway.
 
Belladonna certainly has a mixture of alkaloids - Hyoscyamine for one and hyoscyamine is roughly 5x more toxic than scolopamine and has a longer T1/2 so that epoxide is good for SOMETHING. When opened, the compound's LogP goes down so it redistributes from fatty cells (like the brain) to more watery cells. That would explain why I got the full effects but 4-5 hours later I was baseline while people gambling with the plant are delirious for days - I can imagine THAT being just awful.

From a HR POV, I suspect the tablets are safer, but smoking pills isn't good and butyl bromide won't be so good for you (alkylating agent).

I'm sure there are a lot of psychonauts who want to try EVERYTHING, just so they know.

I remember an interview with Keith Richards who said he only took medical diamorphine and bemoaned the low purity and people adding a dash of scolopamine to give the H more 'flash' (an old term for the rush specifically from opioids).
 
When I was a kid me and a few friends sipped trumpet tea until threshold + a little more effects were reached . Very weird , but nothing there to recommend it , and never did it again .
Certainly the potential there for big time stupor with higher dosing , but very very scary ....
Stay safe , and leave these type of chems alone .
 
Of course, Shamen in South America imbibe the stuff but that is within a cultural setting. I think the closest I can describe the approximately 1/2mg dose I smoked would be a kappa agonist. Just say no is discredited in HR as people have learned that. People are already smoking the stuff and if someone IS insistent to try it, Buscopan pills smoked give very small doses and are a LOT safer than plant sources with unknown potencies.

One thing I DO know is that small amounts have been found in H. The reason being that on IV administration, it gives a massive 'flash'. Keith Richards described getting some and loving the rush BUT then losing 4 hours.

Never assume NOBODY likes it. I know people who like quietapine and shoot it mixed with H. Who the hell mixes a neuroleptic with an opioid!? But they still do it....
 
at this point in my life i have tried almost every drug out there..... this one is the only drug ive ever had nightmares about.
 
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