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Scopolamine as antidepressant; pharmacology details?

Off topic, but I'm very curious about why people all over the world see bugs on anticholinergics (and serious stimulant psychosis is often also accomplished with seeing bugs under one's skin - so there might well be choline depletion playing a key role too!) - this is a much more complex phenomenon than the colours and trails from psychedelics etc. and the CEVs from other substances are really dependent on the individual, but everyone sees bugs or spiders on benadryl etc..!

Another interesting thing might be muscimol by the way, it's not anticholinergic but acts over GABA receptors and exhibits dissociative-like effects akin to these of the Z-drugs like zopiclon / zolpidem if one manages to stay awake on them.. :)
 
I do not plan to take a dose anywhere near enough to get into dissociation/psychosis territory! Once again, the dose will be equivalent or slightly greater than indicated on the box. I'm not looking for any recreational effects of the acute dose.

What I mean about derivatives and pharmacology:
1. Will scop derivatives like scop butylbromide cross the blood-brain barrier as readily as plain scop?
2. Will taking scop or derivatives orally have the same effect on BBB penetration? Will they have a similar half life as that same compound (or be quickly changed to something else, not BBB penetrating, by my liver)?

I suppose non-scop antimuscarinics could work in theory (ex: benzatropine), but scopolamine is the "cleanest" antimuscarinic I could readily get*. I don't know what the H1 antagonism of the antihistamine-anticholinergics is doing for the experiment.
I've already had some luck with benadryl, and even more luck with some old promethazines I had around (all in pretty much box-label doses!) Results are like that pilot study: I feel the antidepressant effects (including an improvement in cognition) about a day and a half after the single dose. I doubt it is a placebo effect because I hadn't used to connect the occasional benadryl I take for particularly bad insomnia episodes to the delayed upswing in mood ~35hrs later.

*tell any doctor you're going on a cruise/ roadtrip. Much easier than "doc, hi, I need this one outmoded parkinson's drug (benzatropine)". I don't know my way around any illegal stuff.
 
Buscopan does not cross the blood-brain barrier because of the charged nitrogen, I think the butyl group is there with this very purpose.

Are you serious about this? Because honestly, you know... This is not gonna lead you anywhere. There are better options.
 
Butylscopolamine doesn't cross the BBB. Taking scopolamine orally will work and it will have its normal half-life, except maybe you'll have to take a higher dose than IV. Anyway I don't see any more problems, you know what you want to do, you aren't going to take a high dose and you have access to scopolamine. Go ahead and try it then.
 
Don't anticholinergics (some) inhibit learning to some extent?
 
Yeah. They're definitely amnesia-inducing agents. Choline is crucial for learning and rational thinking.

Probably it's just that the disruption of normal brain processing leads to temporarily relief from chronic depressive structures ... somewhat like ECT. The NMDA approach is much more interesting and promising (and it involves some disruption too, seeing the life from an other perspective, but it isn't as dangerous in my eyes).
 
Yeah anticholinergics definitely have a lot more serious side-effects. NMDA antagonists are amnesia-inducing as well, in higher dosages, imo.

Besides, there's a reason nootropics (like racetams) target the cholinergic system as a means of improving cognition.
 
There's somehow the need for an equilibrium of all neurotransmitters for our mind and cognition to work and flow easily ... glutamate as one of the major excitatory transmitters plays a crucial role of course, and inhibiting it too much leads to amnesia too, yes. But - if you ask me - it's less severe and shorter lived than what one gets from anticholinergics. The risk with NMDA antagonism is to trigger mania because they can induce a hyper-glutamatergic state.

And you're right about the nootropics of course. The Russian peptides selank, semax are very interesting by the way (and actually approved) as well as fabomotizole and mebicar. I think they have some more novel things that are blatantly ignored in the west!
 
It indeed appears to work! But better go with biperiden.

Got 4mg of that today because of extrapyramidal symptoms from nasty neuroleptics, and it not only solved these, but also a fair deal of others. Anxiety and depression. Lowered my pulse from 112 to 75bpm. Oh, and its a bit stimulating.

I'm slightly forgetful too, but this is even welcome atm. Interestingly no dry mouth.

What do you think, could biperiden be used for longer time? I'm pretty despaired because nmda antagonists are out of question unfortunately and the ADs do no good for me.
 
Butylscopolamine will change into Scopolamine and other realted chemicals when heated in the microwave. "other realted chemicals" includes some that are way more potent than scopolamine itself so be carefull with this.
 
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