Misc Safest ROA for ketamine

[gibberish-noise]

Is one method better than another regarding organ health?

Oral I would think has higher risk than insufflation because at least with the latter you can avoid swallowing the drip. Kidneys process blood, so IV is not ideal. I don't know much about IM nor boofing. From my limited knowledge I would assume boofing to be the safest.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[bingey]

I think it's all the same, and it's the bladder damage that should worry you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ketamine damages the bladder because it and it’s various metabolites are excreted in urine via the renal system. It’s thought that direct contact between ket and/or it’s metabolites and the particular type of cells that line the urinary system causes those cells to transform and no longer perform their protective function. This allows urine to leak into the adjoiming tissue.

Since all your ket is excreted the same way it does not matter which ROA you use - except that routes with high bioavailability like IM and IV require you to use a lot less ketamine which may reduce the damage.

Metabolism and metabolomics of ketamine: a toxicological approach

Ketamine is a phencyclidine derivative and a non-competitive antagonist of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor for which glutamate is the full agonist. It produces a functional dissociation between the thalamocortical and limbic systems, a state that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Chronic ketamine use kills bladder cells

Take the recreational drug regularly and you could have severe bladder problems. The findings may also have implications for its use as an antidepressant

www.google.com

Special K: once the fun is over an EMT arrives for the bladder | American Journal of Physiology-Renal Physiology

journals.physiology.org

 

[gibberish-noise]

Ketamine damages the bladder because it and it’s various metabolites are excreted in urine via the renal system. It’s thought that direct contact between ket and/or it’s metabolites and the particular type of cells that line the urinary system causes those cells to transform and no longer perform their protective function. This allows urine to leak into the adjoiming tissue.

Since all your ket is excreted the same way it does not matter which ROA you use - except that routes with high bioavailability like IM and IV require you to use a lot less ketamine which may reduce the damage.

Metabolism and metabolomics of ketamine: a toxicological approach

Ketamine is a phencyclidine derivative and a non-competitive antagonist of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor for which glutamate is the full agonist. It produces a functional dissociation between the thalamocortical and limbic systems, a state that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Chronic ketamine use kills bladder cells

Take the recreational drug regularly and you could have severe bladder problems. The findings may also have implications for its use as an antidepressant

www.google.com

Special K: once the fun is over an EMT arrives for the bladder | American Journal of Physiology-Renal Physiology

journals.physiology.org

Is it possible to introduce a secondary substance that would 'defuse' the metabolites? Like taking another drug to counter the side effects of the original drug.

But don't IM and IV greatly increase tolerance? So you'd have to up the dose anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don’t know what could neutralise the ket metabolites to stop them affecting the urinary tract cells. It’s an interesting idea though.

I also don’t know whether IV and IM make tolerance develop faster. I would have thought tolerance was a function of dosage rather than speed of effect.

There is not much research on ket tolerance and most of it relates to anaesthesia not to recreational sub-anaesthetic doses.

 

[G_Chem]

From what I’ve heard, indeed oral is horrible whereas IM/IV is the best in terms of bladder issues. I’ve heard people say they’ve done K IM for years no problem.

When we look at the dosage variance between each ROA it makes sense. Oral requires like 300mg, IV 10-30mg.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

I’ve only done IM a few times and it seemed that it had little effect until you hit the k-hole dosage. So it was hard to get a less than 100 % total immersion experience. Whereas with nasal I got a more obvious dose-response curve and could enjoy the K without becoming paralysed if I wanted to - though I was was still always pretty wobbly.

 

[gibberish-noise]

I don’t know what could neutralise the ket metabolites to stop them affecting the urinary tract cells. It’s an interesting idea though.

I also don’t know whether IV and IM make tolerance develop faster. I would have thought tolerance was a function of dosage rather than speed of effect.

There is not much research on ket tolerance and most of it relates to anaesthesia not to recreational sub-anaesthetic doses.

@bingey said here that using IV increases tolerance more than oral for benzos, so I would assume the same principle applies to ket.

 

[Skorpio]

Is it possible to introduce a secondary substance that would 'defuse' the metabolites? Like taking another drug to counter the side effects of the original drug.

But don't IM and IV greatly increase tolerance? So you'd have to up the dose anyway.

I doubt it. The bladder pathology seems to be due to a combination of chemical toxicity of ketamine metabolites and increased growth factor levels. A diuretic plus proper hydration could assist with the first issue, but will not fix the second.

 

[gibberish-noise]

From what I’ve heard, indeed oral is horrible whereas IM/IV is the best in terms of bladder issues. I’ve heard people say they’ve done K IM for years no problem.

When we look at the dosage variance between each ROA it makes sense. Oral requires like 300mg, IV 10-30mg.

-GC

What about insufflated?

 

[G_Chem]

What about insufflated?

I do think it’s better than oral but worse than IV/IM. There’s some that swear by avoiding the drip as you may know.

I’ve only done IM a few times and it seemed that it had little effect until you hit the k-hole dosage. So it was hard to get a less than 100 % total immersion experience. Whereas with nasal I got a more obvious dose-response curve and could enjoy the K without becoming paralysed if I wanted to - though I was was still always pretty wobbly.

I was able to get to the same place I like snorted with IV but it definitely felt different still and the dosage was astronomically small. Like 1-2mg small.

-GC

 

[gibberish-noise]

I do think it’s better than oral but worse than IV/IM. There’s some that swear by avoiding the drip as you may know.




I was able to get to the same place I like snorted with IV but it definitely felt different still and the dosage was astronomically small. Like 1-2mg small.

-GC

I've heard of that. Does it do any good or is it a waste of time?