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Rolling not working?

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skatinglol

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
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7
Hi all, I'm new to bluelight. My friend was looking to see if anybody had some input on his situation. He has not been feeling anything at all the last few times he's attempted to roll. His Last successful roll was mid September (200mg) , after that the next few times had no effect at all. Recently on the 26th He experimented with 5-mapb which had weak-mild effects compared to his friends. Then on Nov30 he attempted to experiment with bk-mdma, started out on a 200mg dose, continued to redose every 30 mins until .5MG was consumed, no effect.

He has been on SSRI's in the past but only for about 5-6 months. (maybe that could have contributed to it?) Any input would be very much appreciated.
 
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Welcome to bluelight :)

No doubt the fact that SSRIs are involved that this is happening. SSRIs are known to in most cases block or dampen the effects of MDMA. How long has your friend been off the SSRIs? It is also quite common that after being on SSRIs for a few months onwards, even after comming off them, many people report reduced effects still from MDMA... my theory for that being the reorganistion/neural changes that occur due to the SSRIs.

May I ask why your friend was on an SSRI to begin with? Typically someone who is on one, MDMA is going to only make that problem worse.
 
How nice of you to register for your friend.

Tell your friend that google is his friend, too.
 
He's been off of them for about 3 months or so, he was on cylexa / welbutrin. He was taking them for Depression / Anxiety but the SSRIs really only made matters worse, so he stopped taking them all together. Turned out the best treatment was just going out and having fun as opposed to taking head meads and chilling in his room haha. But The theory about the SSRIs is probably true as it took higher doses of MDMA for him to get the same effect he had before he began taking SSRIs. Also he was wondering if there could of been a cross tolerance between 5-MAPB & bk-mdma, its difficult to find out though as not too much is known about 5-MAPB.
 
A lot of the time SSRIs will make matters worse, that's the problem. However I believe they have their place. It sounds like your friend is suffering from the typical situational depression in where it is not so much a chemical imbalance that an SSRI will fix but rather as the name suggests, situational, that eh is not happy with the current circumstances of his life.

If getting out, spending time with mates and having fun works for him then great :) I encourage him to treat his depression without the use of pharms as they, if they don't make it worse, will only cover the problem which is how they do work allowing you to be numb to the problem so you can work through it however in this case that isn't what is needed. Head over to our support forum and maybe get your friend to join up if he would like further help with it :)

5-MAPB and bk-MDMA shouldn't share any of cross tolerance however the doses for MDxx drugs vary a lot between each other ... say 100mgs MDMA to 200mgs methylone. If you have a high MDMA tolerance there will be a cross-tollerance to other MDxx to some degree, if you want to get technical it is due to serotonin receptor tolerance not so much serotonin transporter tolerance.
 
Thanks for the input guys, its greatly appreciated! :) He also told me that the bk-mdma ended up kicking in about 27 hours later, WOW....
He took it on saterday around 5pm, with no effect. Then Randomly at around 7pm he started smiling uncontrollably and talking to everyone on facebook, he was a little confused to say the least so he went on over to the bathroom mirror, lone and behold his pupils were like dish plates. Very strange indeed. He said that his nose was clogged the day prior and that he noticed the drug taking effect once his nose cleared up the next day.

Pretty cray if you ask me.. oh well though!
 
MrSpeedyG said:
5-MAPB and bk-MDMA shouldn't share any of cross tolerance however the doses for MDxx drugs vary a lot between each other ... say 100mgs MDMA to 200mgs methylone. If you have a high MDMA tolerance there will be a cross-tollerance to other MDxx to some degree, if you want to get technical it is due to serotonin receptor tolerance not so much serotonin transporter tolerance
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100mg of MDMA to 200mg of methylone? 200mg is a reckless dose of methylone if you actually have methylone, more like 100mg MDMA to 150mg of methylone.

And tolerance is tolerance. If you have taken another releasing agent recently, any other releasing agent will have less of an effect. If you don't have the monoamines/catecholamines, you don't have them. Either way, if you're using releasers to the point that you are worried about tolerance, you're over-using them IMO.

@skatinglol - That sounds extremely odd about the methylone. Placebo maybe? If it took that long to kick in then either its not methylone or something prevented it from even being metabolized which could highlight other problems.

Also, please post as yourself. Nobody makes an account for their friend and posts exclusively for their friend. We know it, you know it, law enforcement knows it. All it does is makes it harder for you to type and for us to respond to.
 
100mg of MDMA to 200mg of methylone? 200mg is a reckless dose of methylone if you actually have methylone, more like 100mg MDMA to 150mg of methylone.
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My bad, was not trying to make a comparitive dose between the two rather state that MDxx will typically have different doses across the board and 200mg methylone isn't a reckless dose, but it isn't low either.

And tolerance is tolerance. If you have taken another releasing agent recently, any other releasing agent will have less of an effect. If you don't have the monoamines/catecholamines, you don't have them. Either way, if you're using releasers to the point that you are worried about tolerance, you're over-using them IMO.
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There is not a complete cross-tollerance between MDxx but there is a cross tolerance to an extent. You are able to take for example MDMA one day and successfully take MDA the next - the are both serotonin releasers but there will still be a serotonin cross tolerance, not completely but to an extent. I have personally seen people literally loose the magic with MDMA and they have tried anything that can to get it back, yes tested stuff, and then they got ahold of some tested MDA and boom magic back although of course there is still a cross tolerance, it is not complete.

However, I do agree if you are worried about cross tolerance between serotonin releasers, you should give MDxx a break.

skatinglol - That sounds extremely odd about the methylone. Placebo maybe? If it took that long to kick in then either its not methylone or something prevented it from even being metabolized which could highlight other problems.
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Read below.

He also told me that the bk-mdma ended up kicking in about 27 hours later, WOW....
He took it on saterday around 5pm, with no effect. Then Randomly at around 7pm he started smiling uncontrollably and talking to everyone on facebook, he was a little confused to say the least so he went on over to the bathroom mirror, lone and behold his pupils were like dish plates. Very strange indeed. He said that his nose was clogged the day prior and that he noticed the drug taking effect once his nose cleared up the next day.
Click to expand...

skatinglol, you said his nose was clogged so I am assuming he insufflated the methylone yes? If so and it got clogged up there it is possibly that none was absorbed when he took it and then cleared his nose swallowing it and took it orally, 27 hours later. Its not unheard of people using stimulants nasalally who clear/snort their nose well after the experience and start getting effects again.
 
MrSpeedyG said:
Welcome to bluelight :)

No doubt the fact that SSRIs are involved that this is happening. SSRIs are known to in most cases block or dampen the effects of MDMA.
Click to expand...

This! They definitely negated all the rolls!

skatinglol said:
the SSRIs really only made matters worse, so he stopped taking them all together. Turned out the best treatment was just going out and having fun as opposed to taking head meads and chilling in his room haha. But The theory about the SSRIs is probably true as it took higher doses of MDMA for him to get the same effect he had before he began taking SSRIs.
Click to expand...

This is legitimately the best treatment for the large majority of people who went too wild with MDMA or an analogue.

In time (whether it be 1-6+ months), the human brain is capable of some absolutely astonishing recovery.

Also he was wondering if there could of been a cross tolerance between 5-MAPB & bk-mdma, its difficult to find out though as not too much is known about 5-MAPB.
Click to expand...

Not too much is known about this analogue, but we know it is an analogue an in all seriousness any doses exceeding 180mg one user could find themselves just not having the greatest time over the next few days.

MrSpeedyG said:
A lot of the time SSRIs will make matters worse, that's the problem. However I believe they have their place. It sounds like your friend is suffering from the typical situational depression in where it is not so much a chemical imbalance that an SSRI will fix but rather as the name suggests, situational, that eh is not happy with the current circumstances of his life.

If getting out, spending time with mates and having fun works for him then great :) I encourage him to treat his depression without the use of pharms as they, if they don't make it worse, will only cover the problem which is how they do work allowing you to be numb to the problem so you can work through it however in this case that isn't what is needed. Head over to our support forum and maybe get your friend to join up if he would like further help with it :)
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All very good advice!


This thing happening 27 hours later though... I'm just finding this just a little bit odd, you don't hear about this every day but could you taste or smell the chemicals despite the nose being clogged since ROA was insufflation?
 
I never thought about that with the nose. LOL! That would be a trip getting something stuck up there then swallowing it over a day later. 8o

As for MDMA versus MDA, they have different actions. Nobody has figured out what MDA has that MDMA lacks but its pretty common knowledge that if you've lost the magic with MDMA, you can take MDA and you'll get floored. I'm wondering if that's not a neurotoxic reaction though. Like MDA forces release past the point that would be allowed to occur with MDMA.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/156248-MDA-vs-MDMA-why-does-MDA-keep-working-when-MDMA-doesn-t

My note about 200mg of methylone being reckless was more to say that comparing 100mg of MDMA with 200mg of methylone would be reckless although 200mg of methylone itself is quite a high dose - less is more with methylone.

OP - in the future when working with methylone, just eat it. It isn't very active nasally (there was actually a huge argument on here a few years back about whether the nostrils even absorb it and it isn't just going down to the stomach anyway) and the reports of nasal administration actually made it sound dirtier than taking it orally with less duration and the same intensity with the same dose as an oral dose.
 
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I never thought about that with the nose. LOL! That would be a trip getting something stuck up there then swallowing it over a day later. 8o
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Weird and unusual to get the whole dose stuck there for that long I mean 27 hours is a lot, nevertheless it is possible! I have read people the next day clear their nose after binging on meth and they have got a little pick me up from it unexpectedly!

As for MDMA versus MDA, they have different actions. Nobody has figured out what MDA has that MDMA lacks but its pretty common knowledge that if you've lost the magic with MDMA, you can take MDA and you'll get floored. I'm wondering if that's not a neurotoxic reaction though. Like MDA forces release past the point that would be allowed to occur with MDMA.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/156248-MDA-vs-MDMA-why-does-MDA-keep-working-when-MDMA-doesn-t

My note about 200mg of methylone being reckless was more to say that comparing 100mg of MDMA with 200mg of methylone would be reckless although 200mg of methylone itself is quite a high dose - less is more with methylone.
Click to expand...

Yes I believe so there must be some other mechanism involved, its also a curiosity to I have. Wonder what the effects of MDA on an SSRI would be? If it is not down to serotonin release maybe it would give a better idea if MDA also works through post-synaptic 5HT2A activation. That thread does have quite a few theories.

It wasn't my intent to compare 100mg MDMA to 200mg methylone to be equal, I should have worded it better lol again my bad, my goal was to point out the differences between all MDxx and doses.

OP - in the future when working with methylone, just eat it. It isn't very active nasally (there was actually a huge argument on here a few years back about whether the nostrils even absorb it and it isn't just going down to the stomach anyway) and the reports of nasal administration actually made it sound dirtier than taking it orally with less duration and the same intensity with the same dose as an oral dose.
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This. All MDxx should be taken orally only for the best experience and if you really want a different ROA try rectally, but avoid the other routes as they are not as good and wasteful IMO.
 
MrSpeedyG said:
Yes I believe so there must be some other mechanism involved, its also a curiosity to I have. Wonder what the effects of MDA on an SSRI would be? If it is not down to serotonin release maybe it would give a better idea if MDA also works through post-synaptic 5HT2A activation. That thread does have quite a few theories.
Click to expand...

Its speedier, more psychedelic, less of an entactogen, less debilitating comedown. I was on Celexa for 2 months and I tried MDMA out of curiosity, not feeling much of anything as expected, but got ahold of some MDA pills and it reminded me a lot more of a psychedelic than it did MDMA. I would say that it was like someone crossed a dirty stimulant like ephedrine with the psychedelia of AMT. A nice head space but very heavy body load with little to no crash. I did it twice in those two months and it was the same both times. The body load really overpowered the experience. I even took my temperature since temperature is a good indicator of serotonin activity for me (my normal body temperature is 96.5-97.5 and when I'm rolling, it goes up to the 98-99 range pretty reliably) and I didn't have any temperature change with the MDMA or the MDA.

My dosage of Celexa was 20mg, which is the recommended starting dose, however, when they took me off of it cold turkey after the two months, I experienced the full debilitating discontinuation syndrome complete with brain zaps and random paralysis shocks (!) so it was definitely fully functional in me.

Curiously, it was not very visual at all, even after eating three pills one of the two nights. MDA has never failed to give me two things - bad nausea and visuals while coming down with higher doses having visuals through the peak. I got the nausea and dry-heaved both times but no visuals.

All MDxx should be taken orally only for the best experience and if you really want a different ROA try rectally, but avoid the other routes as they are not as good and wasteful IMO.
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I'd have to agree with you. Rectal is amazing with all of them though.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Its speedier, more psychedelic, less of an entactogen, less debilitating comedown. I was on Celexa for 2 months and I tried MDMA out of curiosity, not feeling much of anything as expected, but got ahold of some MDA pills and it reminded me a lot more of a psychedelic than it did MDMA. I would say that it was like someone crossed a dirty stimulant like ephedrine with the psychedelia of AMT. A nice head space but very heavy body load with little to no crash. I did it twice in those two months and it was the same both times. The body load really overpowered the experience. I even took my temperature since temperature is a good indicator of serotonin activity for me (my normal body temperature is 96.5-97.5 and when I'm rolling, it goes up to the 98-99 range pretty reliably) and I didn't have any temperature change with the MDMA or the MDA.
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That just reinforces that MDA doesn't rely as much on serotonin release as what MDMA does and that MDA is as believed more dopaminergic compared to MDMA which would explain the longer length also and supposed increased neurotoxicity. I still think MDA's effects come a lot from directly activation the 5HT2A receptor which explains the typical psychedelic activity.
 
Some people say it goes 20-40 mins less in duration but its definitely been proven that MDA is more dopaminergic compared to MDMA:

3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) analogues exhibit differential effects on synaptosomal release of 3H-dopamine and 3H-5-hydroxytryptamine.

Dennis J. McKennaCorresponding author contact information, ∗, X.-M. Guan∗, A.T. Shulgin†
∗ Department of Neurology & Neurological Sciences, Stanford University Medical Center, Stanford, CA 94305, USA
† Department of Neurology & Neurological Sciences, Stanford University Medical Center, 1483 Shulgin Road, Lafayette, CA 94549, USA


Just on paper in case anyone doubted that but surely everyone could feel that is true. 8)

The effect of various analogues of the neurotoxic amphetamine derivative, MDA (3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine) on carrier-mediated. calcium-independent release of 3H-5-HT and 3H-DA from rat brain synaptosomes was investigated.

Both enantiomers of the neurotoxic analogues MDA and MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) induce synaptosonal release of 3H-5-HT and 3H-DA in itro. The release of 3H-5-HT induced by MDMA is partially blocked by 10−6 M fluoxetime. The (+) enantiomers of both MDA and MDMA are more potent than the (−) enantiomers as releasers of both 3H-5-HT and 3H-DA. Eleven analogues, differing from MDA with respect to the nature and number of ring and/or side chain substituents, also show some activity in the release experiments, and are more potent as releasers of 3H-5-HT than of 3H-DA.

The amphetamine derivatives (±)fenfluramine, (±)norfenfluramine, (±)MDE, (±)PCA, and d-methamphetamine are all potent releasers of 3H-5-HT and show varying degrees of activity as 3H-DA releasers. The hallucinogen DOM does not cause significant release of either 3H-monoamine. Possible long-term serotonergic neurotoxicity was assessed by quantifying the density of 5-HT uptake sites in rats treated with multiple doese of selected analogues using 3H-paroxetine to label 5-HT uptake sites.

In the neurotoxicity study of the compounds investigated...

More at:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009130579190005M


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009130579190005M
 
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I think its well-known MDA is more dopaminergic than MDMA anyway but good read nevertheless :)
 
Rolling means under the influence of MDMA, lovin morphine its an american term though allthough you might hear it elsehwere in the world
 
thank u for explaining, i guess i would not know bc i never tried MDMA, that stuff seems to be jumpy for me, i believe i will pass on that one, do u know anything on ethyl?
 
Not what what you mean by ethly, but start your own thread will be much easier to find what your looking for :)
 
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