Greetings friends,
So this is my first post on a forum..ever. Over the last year i have collected and read as many medical studies on opiates addiction and brain chemistry as i could, which has always been very fascinating to me. I have tried to discover and understand the underlying physiological reasons for the physical/mental withdrawals symptoms. I still think there is not enough studies on the subject (that’s why we have to investigate ourselves) mainly because it’s not financially interesting for the pharm corps, opiates junkies are not notorious for stacking dollar bills under their bed (and it’s kind of fair too, we did it to ourselves).
Anyway, beforehand, a little background about me: Almost 30 yrs, i m educated to post-graduate level (in Finance, so i m not a MD), travelled a lot and lived in different countries, used to compete in wrestling at high level (so relatively healthy) and kicked a 1 yr high dose Tramadol addiction.
Ok so, like i said, i m not a medical doctor, these are inferences from medical reads and logical deductions.
Opiates affects the main neurotransmitters, at different degrees. What is commonly called Opiates Acute Withdrawals and PAWS is our brain chemistry going balls to the wall trying to regulate the neuro-chemical mess we have made.
Adrenergic neurotransmitters are usually seen as the culprit here, inducing a « rebound effect » after one quits opiates = Increase in Epinephrine and NE.
What studies have left out so far, is the role of the very important neurotransmitter Acetylcholine, which act as a excitatory synaptic message.
My take is that there is not one clear mechanism at work here, but very complexe intertwined neuro-soup stuff.
Opiates act on Epinephrine, NE, dopamine, testosterone, gaba and Acetylcholine. The firsts have been well documented, but not Ach.
While reading, this is what i have found out : Opiates inhibit Ach release, and if we look at the symptoms of low Ach we have slow thinking and poor memory, which adds up with the general sense of « the memories of those last years aver very foggy.. can’t remember much ».
Now when one stops using, upregulation takes place and Ach is dumped all over the place.
If you look at the symptoms of cholinergic cris/Ach excess, we have: the crazy shits, Restlessness, teary eyes, excessive sweating, anxiety, difficulty to regulate body temp, compulsive thinking and depression. Knowing that Ach induces histamines release, we can now add to the list: insomnia, sneezing, stomach acid and stomach cramps.
We have pretty much all our acute withdrawals symptoms, and since it will take time for the brain chemistry to find its levels back to normal we experience PAWS.
Of course there is a lot more to it, like neurotransmitters regulating each others : Ach inhibits dopamine and serotonin, hence the depression and total lack of motivation. I don’t intend to be thorough and too specific, i m too lazy for that. You can google key words to look up the actual medical/clinical reports if you want the supporting evidences.
I just wanted to put it out there as a possible help for everyone dealing with opiate addiction/recovery, when loperamide/dxm/clonidine simply won't cut it. To me, the evidences add up to a logical cascade of physical and psychological symptoms, yet i could be wrong. (so please feel free to add your experience/expertise)
So what ? Well, my best bet is that anticholinergic medicine (Atropine, Oxybutynin, etc) could be of a real help both for acute and Paws phases. it seems to be causing much of the trouble here, and as someone who has genetic neuropathy characterized by excess Ach, i can ensure you that i have had the same symptoms before even touching opiates (and maybe Tramadol's Ach inhibiting properties helped with getting hooked, because it was a big relief from an overstimulated brain/body).
The list of things to help during the acute phase is now well known, but PAWS are still kind of mysterious. The key here is the regulation of all neurotransmitters back to normal, which of course sucks and won’t happen over night, but you can help your brain out with some supplements:
-5 htp for increasing serotonin (which then down regulate Ach)
-L- Tyrosine and mucuna extract for increasing dopamine (also down regulate Ach)
-Use an anticholinergic to decrease Ach overload (you can have it easily prescribed)
-GABA to promote inhibitory signals and therefore relaxation
-Anti-histaminic if the histamine release is really kicking your ass
-Avoid foods high in choline
-Exercise to get your endorphins level back in track
- A to Z vitamins (double the dose, you need it)
-Don’t trade opiates for benzo as it can be very tempting to when going through recovery (use them only for the acute phase)
Voilà, i thought i should share my findings as it might help some peoples who want to break free, but have a hard time dealing with the long road to recovery (and yes, it will get better and better, faster if you live healthy and are consistent with supplements/vitamins intakes). I have personally tried anticholinergic and found great relief for minimal adverse effects. I hope to see more studies about Ach in the near future, as they are starting to investigate its role in clinical depression and other conditions (SRRIs’ relative effectiveness would come from increased serotonin down regulating Ach level).
Peace.
So this is my first post on a forum..ever. Over the last year i have collected and read as many medical studies on opiates addiction and brain chemistry as i could, which has always been very fascinating to me. I have tried to discover and understand the underlying physiological reasons for the physical/mental withdrawals symptoms. I still think there is not enough studies on the subject (that’s why we have to investigate ourselves) mainly because it’s not financially interesting for the pharm corps, opiates junkies are not notorious for stacking dollar bills under their bed (and it’s kind of fair too, we did it to ourselves).
Anyway, beforehand, a little background about me: Almost 30 yrs, i m educated to post-graduate level (in Finance, so i m not a MD), travelled a lot and lived in different countries, used to compete in wrestling at high level (so relatively healthy) and kicked a 1 yr high dose Tramadol addiction.
Ok so, like i said, i m not a medical doctor, these are inferences from medical reads and logical deductions.
Opiates affects the main neurotransmitters, at different degrees. What is commonly called Opiates Acute Withdrawals and PAWS is our brain chemistry going balls to the wall trying to regulate the neuro-chemical mess we have made.
Adrenergic neurotransmitters are usually seen as the culprit here, inducing a « rebound effect » after one quits opiates = Increase in Epinephrine and NE.
What studies have left out so far, is the role of the very important neurotransmitter Acetylcholine, which act as a excitatory synaptic message.
My take is that there is not one clear mechanism at work here, but very complexe intertwined neuro-soup stuff.
Opiates act on Epinephrine, NE, dopamine, testosterone, gaba and Acetylcholine. The firsts have been well documented, but not Ach.
While reading, this is what i have found out : Opiates inhibit Ach release, and if we look at the symptoms of low Ach we have slow thinking and poor memory, which adds up with the general sense of « the memories of those last years aver very foggy.. can’t remember much ».
Now when one stops using, upregulation takes place and Ach is dumped all over the place.
If you look at the symptoms of cholinergic cris/Ach excess, we have: the crazy shits, Restlessness, teary eyes, excessive sweating, anxiety, difficulty to regulate body temp, compulsive thinking and depression. Knowing that Ach induces histamines release, we can now add to the list: insomnia, sneezing, stomach acid and stomach cramps.
We have pretty much all our acute withdrawals symptoms, and since it will take time for the brain chemistry to find its levels back to normal we experience PAWS.
Of course there is a lot more to it, like neurotransmitters regulating each others : Ach inhibits dopamine and serotonin, hence the depression and total lack of motivation. I don’t intend to be thorough and too specific, i m too lazy for that. You can google key words to look up the actual medical/clinical reports if you want the supporting evidences.
I just wanted to put it out there as a possible help for everyone dealing with opiate addiction/recovery, when loperamide/dxm/clonidine simply won't cut it. To me, the evidences add up to a logical cascade of physical and psychological symptoms, yet i could be wrong. (so please feel free to add your experience/expertise)
So what ? Well, my best bet is that anticholinergic medicine (Atropine, Oxybutynin, etc) could be of a real help both for acute and Paws phases. it seems to be causing much of the trouble here, and as someone who has genetic neuropathy characterized by excess Ach, i can ensure you that i have had the same symptoms before even touching opiates (and maybe Tramadol's Ach inhibiting properties helped with getting hooked, because it was a big relief from an overstimulated brain/body).
The list of things to help during the acute phase is now well known, but PAWS are still kind of mysterious. The key here is the regulation of all neurotransmitters back to normal, which of course sucks and won’t happen over night, but you can help your brain out with some supplements:
-5 htp for increasing serotonin (which then down regulate Ach)
-L- Tyrosine and mucuna extract for increasing dopamine (also down regulate Ach)
-Use an anticholinergic to decrease Ach overload (you can have it easily prescribed)
-GABA to promote inhibitory signals and therefore relaxation
-Anti-histaminic if the histamine release is really kicking your ass
-Avoid foods high in choline
-Exercise to get your endorphins level back in track
- A to Z vitamins (double the dose, you need it)
-Don’t trade opiates for benzo as it can be very tempting to when going through recovery (use them only for the acute phase)
Voilà, i thought i should share my findings as it might help some peoples who want to break free, but have a hard time dealing with the long road to recovery (and yes, it will get better and better, faster if you live healthy and are consistent with supplements/vitamins intakes). I have personally tried anticholinergic and found great relief for minimal adverse effects. I hope to see more studies about Ach in the near future, as they are starting to investigate its role in clinical depression and other conditions (SRRIs’ relative effectiveness would come from increased serotonin down regulating Ach level).
Peace.
Thanks again for the information and nice research.
