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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Ritalin long term studies /Tramadol long term studies 2 x prescribed dosage.

Ethan8

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
122
Hi guys and girls ,1st off I am a Brit-X-pat living and working in Thailand hence my attitude toward some substances. ,my ritalin use is very small and controlled to 10-20mg ED, coming from a X -10years ago speed/amphet-head background I only 'use' for a much kick up my lazy ass these meds now ,not to enjoy the 'rush' .

I usually combine RIt with 200mg caffeine tabs ,no coffee and sometimes yohimbe and some decent green tea, I really don't like yohimbe but it slips easily thru the Thai stim net.

____________________________________________________________

Much more concern to me is my daily use of 1gram of tramadol. I'ts been 2 years now tapering up to 800-1000mg and at time hitting almost 2g in a very depressed state [only time in my life I've self harmed[ cut].

I use Tramadol HCL, no paracetemol. About 500tabs a month.

I divide the 'hit's' into 4 x 250-300mg .

Some points I am aware of:

I am prescribed diazepam, loraz ,alraz or indeed any benzo that takes my fancy, have never had a seizure either in my past abuse day of street drugs nor now ,nor indeed before I was aware to use use benzo as anti-seizure meds.

I'm not being cocksure ,just informative.

I am aware of the serotonin syndrome in combo with my anti-D- Remeron and indeed other stims + certain steroids.

What I'd like to know is if there are any long term pubmed studies etc on raised liver values ,kidney ,heart etc but abusing this amount of tramadol or indeed prostate enlargment issue as trammy works as a stim higher up.

One more thing of note is I am a long term- moderately currently] user of anabolic/androgenic steroids is that oral steroids can place stress upon the liver although over 3 yrs of tests my liver values have always been in range and also no enlarged ventricles etc ,however this was before my tramadol addiction. vIn other words I'd make a good alkie ,perhaps a future career for me.

Lastly as my post almost seems to have a air of self assurance about it I would like to state I've been on the 'phychological ropes' before many times in my life due to past/childhood based depression an at the hands of amphetamine-whizz-speed [not meth] and have pulled my aching body thru.

That was 10yrs ago ,I am much stronger now phyically [yes I lift heavy stuff in a repetitive manner] ,due to my Mums passing my mental strength is tough as f-k but......

....if I go too long without my trammy dose or worse wake up without the drug present in my body my ability to function as a human being both phyically and mentally dwindles to a child. I can't/won't/don't get up and if I do its to crawl into fetal.

Right now.....I accept this however so merely seek answers regarding my health concerns.

Thank you so much!
 
your tram use sounds much like mine, though i was in the 3gm range for a couple of years. i have regular blood testing done, every 6 months, and no discernible affects to be seen. but for the past two years my tramadol use has been 300mg a day with a one problem two times a month 2gm a day use just so i don't forget.
 
I can speak as an habitual tramadol user, and certainly tramadol-dependent individual. My usual dose ranges from 300 mg to 500 mg/day, usually taking 400 mg/day. I don't take any typical anti-depressants, but have been using fairly modest to somewhat moderate doses of pharmaceutical amphetamine, with the tramadol, or on other days I'll use moderate doses of methylphenidate, with the tramadol, too. Though, I've never combined any really significant dose of amphetamine with methylphenidate, or vice-versa. However, I've never taken tramadol without a benzodiazepine in my system, for I have known benzo dependence for the longest of all. I take 4 mg clonazepam daily, divided into two daily doses, and even though I am very dependent, I feel that the benzodiazepine still exerts a certain effect of protective anti-convulsant action. Not to get into too much detail, but I also take a regular 4 mg lorazepam at bedtime, 200 mg pregabalin at bedtime, and 700 mg carisoprodol at bedtime - that cocktail is usually left at those doses, though I'll use additional benzo's, carisoprodol, and/or butalbital as needed, or as desired. Anyhow, the daily dose of tramadol at 400 mg/day has been part of my 'drug profile' for longer than anything but a 24-7 benzodiazepine, which has been the 4 mg clonazepam/day for a while now. I do feel, like I said, somewhat protected from the possible epileptic activity that tramadol can cause on account of always having been on a sizeable dose of a benzo taken 24-7.

I think tramadol has wonderful potential as an anti-depressant, and should be incorporated into psychiatry where appropriate, however it has its risks. I'd like to say I know of all of them, but I don't. I know that there are risks related to serotonin syndrome and seizure activity, but honestly I don't know how else the tramadol may be adversely effecting my health, and I suspect, in the long run, it will, at the very least, cause significant problems upon any discontinuation, where I'd bet that there may be certain persistent symptoms of depression and/or melancholia even after the acute withdrawal phase, at least for me. This is frightening, and luckily I am not considering discontinuing it in the near, or even intermediate, future, so I needn't worry about that right now. I do have a feeling that the longer I continue to let the dependence continue, the more profound the lasting effects of the tramadol will be upon eventual discontinuation. I am sort of rambling, here, so I am sorry if I am not helping, but I am sharing my experience with the substance, so it is something. With the tramadol, I usually dose 200 mg when I wake, 100 mg anywhere from three to six hours after that, and 100 mg as my last dose of the day. Frankly, I could not imagine stopping cold turkey with tramadol, on account of the few tastes I had with which what would, now, be very mild withdrawal for me, considering only after six or eight weeks of daily use, I experienced relatively strong withdrawal symptoms, but that was a few years ago, and now I have been taking tramadol daily for a few years, with one hellacious exception of very brief abstinence from the drug, which was over with after about 48 hours of not having the tramadol. The frightening thing, for me, with the idea of tramadol wd's, too, is that it acts in more than one simple way with respect to its pharmacological effects - a serotonin releasing agent, a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, and, especially on account of its active metabolite, o-desmethyltramadol, the opioid agonist effect, along with other effects it exerts via its mechanism of action. With my fatigue, and fibromyalgia symptoms, this becomes even scarier, for me.

No doubt, I have felt, and do feel, certain adverse effects from the tramadol's effects, though most are transient as of now - hot flashes and a propensity to sweat uncomfortably easily are not fun, but the inter-dose withdrawal effects, usually ensuing while I am sleeping and present upon awakening, are certainly much worse. When I do wake, I need my tramadol, else I don't know what I'd do, really - I don't think I'd be very functional at all, as the OP suggested in his or her experience, too. For me, the tramadol experience was really tops in the beginning, but of course that is not unordinary or odd. I remember that my morning dose of 100 mg tramadol and 10 mg extended-release mixed amphetamine salts created this ultra-mood-enhancing, ultra-anxiolytic effect, where my problems with depression, anxiety, fatigue, and chronic pain seemed to literally vanish, but that was the honeymoon period, where the synergy of the two was sparklingly remarkable in a recreational and therapeutic sense. That didn't last too long, but I remember it. Hell, I remember my honeymoon period with just tramadol - it rendered long-lasting euphoria that was really quite undeniable, as an opioid and as the atypical stimulant/anti-depressant it is. The tramadol euphoria was once superior to a sizeable dose of amphetamine or methylphenidate, now, and even superior, in its queer way, to the regular opiate. It was, at a time, like buprenorphine plus an amphetamine with no side-effects plus a disinhibiting sedative-hypnotic (it really kicked the hell out of my OCD and social phobia - obliterated). But, to rant about a brief period is not of all that much help, I guess. It is just odd how, now, it seems only necessary to take to avoid wd's, and once it was the bee's knees super drug.

I would like to add, for the OP's interest, that, in the name of harm reduction, I would try to taper your dose down little by little until you are at a dose which is neither insufferable, but not as potentially dangerous and harmful as near and up to a dose of 1 g/day. The fact that you do use certain steroids, which I know very little about, does not seem particularly wise in conjunction with the tramadol and/or the methylphenidate - I, frankly, cannot speak to the extent of potential danger of the concomitant use of anabolic steroids and/or methylphenidate. It certainly does seem unwise, however. The use of the methylphenidate with tramadol is something of which I can relate firsthand, but I take only half the daily dose you are with respect to the tramadol, so, even with relatively modest doses of methylphenidate, it does seem to pose a definite potential risk. I would very highly suspect reducing your methylphenidate dose, though not high as it is, would be relatively a subjectively easy thing for you to do; I do not know what you mean by "10 - 20 mg ED", other than the dose, but what does ED mean? In any event, I'd think even 2.5 mg to 5 mg methylphenidate would be 'better than nothing', if you are using it as a therapeutic agent and not recreationally, which I assume you are. Methylphenidate does not really incur tolerance in the same way amphetamine, for example, does; in fact, it has been my opinion that, with methylphenidate, there really is not much tolerance able to be accumulated, with regard to most of its effects, including the therapeutic ones. I, personally, use my methylphenidate recreationally more than anything, and even still there does not seem to be much tolerance build up, unlike my experience with amphetamine - remember, they work in very different ways, even if they tend to be grouped together as pharmaceutical stimulants. Amphetamine works as a releasing agent, and to a much lesser degree, a reuptake inhibitor, too - it works on serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. But, methylphenidate really works as a reuptake inhibitor for norepinephrine and dopamine, and I do not think it has much effect on serotonin, if any, whereas amphetamine does. I am not certain that methylphenidate does not effect serotonin, but still the two types of drugs are very different.

So, not really knowing all of what I should about tramadol itself, I can still confidently recommend reducing your total tramadol dose by means of a taper at a comfortable rate (benzo's can help - remember to use, safely) to as low a dose as possible, but only you can really determine what good outweighs the bad, and vice-versa, with respect to rate of taper and the amount after said taper. I can still recommend confidently that you decrease your individual and total methylphenidate doses, even though I agree they would normally be considered quite 'modest' or 'light', but your tramadol/steroid use can complicate things a great deal - would you consider eliminating the methylphenidate? I would recommend, too, you really re-evaluate your use of anabolic steroids, for, though as I said, I don't know much about them, I know they are psychophysiological 'stressors' and exert a stimulant activity of their own kind; with this, I really worry about strain on the cardiovascular system - I just think a large dose of tramadol, very serotonergic and noradrenergic, can wreak havoc on the heart on its own, and anabolic steroids, I am sure, do not help this. Then, think, to add methylphenidate on top of that, even a bit, could probably have the potential to cause some really rather serious acute and chronic danger to the heart and cardiovascular system. Also, damage of the liver and hepatic system is a risk; that I know to be a risk, likely even greater on account of the combinations, here, but to what extent tramadol exerts hepatoxicity at high doses, I don't know. Tramadol is metabolized by the liver, so I'd think there be some ill effect. Thankfully, you do not use any APAP - that would just be even more concerning, in that regard.

Really, I would look at how your current use of different drugs presents particular danger because of both synergistic effects and compounded effects. I would do a serious and complete re-evaluation of all of it. I know this is somewhat of a rambling message, maybe seemingly redundant or aimless, so apologize if it is, but I hope some it helps. Incidentally, I have not heard of the adverse effects tramadol exerts on the prostate, but that could really account for some of my genitourinary issues - often there is polyuria, sometimes hesitancy and retention, sometimes urine of foul appearance and/or odor, sometimes semen in the urine, and sometimes, even, production of a fair amount of a pre-ejaculate without even erection or sexual arousal. Maybe, I ought to re-evaluate my tramadol use, but it is something which I do fear - to re-evaluate it. And, one thing to add, which I forgot about your thread, you might consider, CAREFULLY, using the Remeron to sort of replace some of the tramadol you might taper, by increasing your dose of that after reducing the tramadol intake; still, that is yet another agent which you use that could very well complicate your health because of this very risky polypharmacy going on. I don't know how much Remeron you take now, but a modest increase, after a more sizeable decrease with the tramadol might be something you could benefit from. Honestly, that might be more of a danger. Right now, I am just shooting out ideas as they are coming to me. Again, sorry for the length of this post. You are no doubt strong in character, and no doubt have enough knowledge to understand many of the potential implications of your drug use as it is, but you need to use both of those great attributes to get yourself to a better and more healthful state.
 
@Edgewise one -fook -3g must stim the hell out of you ,I found anything over 1g ED even in one hit [when I was suicidal] didn't do much more to me but I did for the 1sttime ever in my life self harm very badly ,a very enjoyable experience ,I know I should not say so pls anyone I'm a dick and its not cool but its a point worth raising.


Alex ,thank you so much for your deatiled reply ,it's not rambling but I can tell you take the same drug combo as me when you write and to be honest it's make me feel better to know even that.

Sorry first up - ED -each day ,just chat from steroid forum elsewhere. My bad.

My rit comes in 10mg tabs.

If I take benzos to child with my 250mg trammy I 'can' get sleepy or at-least quiet ,my GF is Thai and lvining in Thailand you realise Thai people -no offence- think and work and play like children and being a moody British grumpy git is not on + I am a teacher and pls no think I am a bad teacher because of my use....I'm actually a pretty good teacher probably because of my 'chemical enhancements' lol.

Anyhow the rit tab snapped in half 5mg is exactly enough to 'hold back' 5mg/10mg diaz or 1mg of Xanax.

I was using 1-2,g loraz for sleep but now have swopped to Xanax as sometimes I take 1mg xanax/5mg valium.....do you think this is silly idea as opposed to say 10mg diaz? I'm aware of conversion charts but other 'drugs' throw everything out!

Weirdly remeron which is often prescribed partically at lower doses for sleep does the opposite with tram and kicks me up a gear however it does offset the rit appetite suppression and being a -attempt of a bodybuilders-lol I need to eat eat eat.

You mention other stims ,can you elaborate ,I only know of adderal and dexedrine [sp] but I think in Thailand they are not available [prescribed hospital] .

They are long lasting correct?

Are you using anti's yourself, my Thai doctor told remeron was outdated now and a modern version was available.

However here's the the prob ,remeon here with no Thai copy ,patent expired or not is not available so oce my Brit supply I hoarded runs out -3months- I'm off ith only prozac as a 'Thai copy' + being a a SSRI I'd rather come off and rely on trammy to SNRI me.

My Remmy dose is 22.5mg , 45mg tab split in half to elongate there use......pity as 45mg was awesome.

Can you give a example of your daily dosing schedule.....if you want to of course.

I've used benzo's before to lower trammy but with my beta-blockers my memory goes to crap although to be fair its more long term memory which I've used to my advantage [have you seen the studie done with beta-blockers and erasing painful memories?]

Anyhow my benzo use flyes up and stays up as trammy goes down. hepatoxic wise ,diaz takes a long time to clear but I think trammy is active for 14hrs so from a liver point of view its no biggie so we are talking more mental right.

Question- do you think your trammy use although it may of started because of a opiate like high is not purely a snri-Stim high and really has no opiate effect atall and indeed mood enhancing is simply augmented by your ritalin and leveled by your benzo's?

I have never tried true opiates -I am scared ,my will is weak with new highs and I will sink fast.

Do you poteniate your tram with anything ,I have as said I think used gabapentin which is awesome but too expensive.

Steroid use can be very dependant on choice of steroid ,example is sometimes we as steroid use use veterinary steroids ,one of which in combo with remmy only gave me the widest MDMA pupils ever and made me run around like a headless chicken. Amusing.

Overall the benzo's help also with some steroids suppressing tension issues and sleep/nightmare issues.

A slight HRT/TRT boost in testosterone I believe is a much better anti-d with longer studies behind it than most/all anti'd but of course not for anyone ,I'm not saying I'm pro-steroids ,I'm saying I'm pro HRT/TRT [same thing ,lol]

In the words on Mr Cobain I'm 'on a plain' ,my use feel sustainable and I think I can lower trammy [and everything else will follow] .......eventually.

The thing is ......being depressed is THEE only thing that scares me so when I feel ok I just think to hell with it -healthwise- and push on ,stupid yes but I can handle being moody, angry etc but lethergic/depressed/non-chalant even....I can't.

I have to keep going going going -I don't like to think ,I spent too much time thinking in my pot/lsd younger days and its did me NO good as I am simply not intelligent enough to give myself answers thus I self medicate to keep active hence the gym also.

I don't know if that makes sense.

I don't want to sit down and relax, posting now ,that's relaxing ,that's ok.

Usually a guy attending the gym frequently [no steroids] with other habits like mine and a good diet could offset many probs and lessen their use of benzo/stims/tram etc.

However bodybuilding is not [some will disagree ,that's cool] a healthy hobby ,number 1 because the of the potential for steroid abuse ,not use [younger guys/generation think more more more] the diet can be very unhealthy as you are constantly forcefeeding if you are a naturally small ectomorph like me , bloated and sometimes eating junk to get your weight up......then practically starving yourself for 3-4months for a show/photoshoot or just to impress the girls .......or maybe you just have bad self esteem........

On top of that yo are literally smashing your body to pieces pretty much everyday because you need that endorphin release and you need to feel you have done the job ,your body is very adaptive [I'm not meaning to patronise anyone] but at nearly 40 now trust me it hurts......but its kind of a nice-reassuring pain.......a total opposite to the pain you awaken with if there is no tram in your system.....that........really.......hurts.....as if I need to tell you.

By the way with regard to dosing.

I take 50-100mg with my last benzo before bed as at best with my busy life I get 5 hours sleep -no naps :-( either and I set my alarm for 4am so I can take my trammy ,rit ,yohimbe [ergh] and 200mg caffeine before my 5am alarm call so I wake up ready to go.

I do think its getting much worse ,my GF now says if she comes before my dose I look.....dead, I don't talk ,I won't make eye contact ,I won't stand up ,if I need to pee I wobble almost .

Take my 'hit' and then I'm 'alive' .The difference is night and day.

To think of stopping to me is unthinkable ,I think enough rit alone would get me up but its the trammy that levels me.

Lastly before I ramble crap forever have your tram usage caused you in anyway to crave other substances.

2 things .....one I constantly read and watch bout opium ,oxycodone ,heroin etc.....if it was here ,I'd do it , I know it so I make sure its not here as Thailand is a country of temptations.

Number 2 a few weeks back ,my gym training went to crap -change of job/routine spins my OCD up and I can't get a grip.

It was Thai new year ,beer as much as I like it has no place in my bodybuilding but I drank one of my GFs vodka mixers. . .

Then I think, buy 4 ,take some benzos [knew I'd zzzz] but take some rit [knew I could drink forever] .....take some trammy......because.....well it was that time of day and have a mini party in my head.

It was great ,drunk without being drunk.

Prob was when I got home I continued ,4 bottles ,6 bottles ,8 bottles then vodka got 2 dear so spy cocktails......the a look in the mirror confirmed I was shrinking and because I am vain [bodybuilder-99% vanity] I ceased but I was drinking alone ,I have NEVER in 39yrs had a craving for alcohol ,I still have it but if I go to the gym I automatically won't drink so I Have a safety device .......however if I were to get injured I know I'd drink.

Thing is with trammy and rit you don't even get drunk but moods great.

It's like I am blaming TV .......blaming trammy but it just seems ......odd to me. Maybe I am full of crap.

ANyhow thanks for reading if you made it this far , I ramble ,sometimes aimlessly but you said you ramble but to me it all made sense ,I hope I do too.

Thank you sincerely!
 
Haha Ethan, I taught middle school for 30 years and though on disability for the past 2 years I actually retire on July 1st. Never received anything but above standard and higher on my annual reviews so I was/am a functional addict? Ironic how I abused drugs, specifically opiates/opioids, before having actual chronic pain issues, a Spinal Cord Stroke, that now have me taking as prescribed.

Anyway the teacher comment caught my attention.
 
I used between 1g-2g of tramadol daily for close to 5 years, i ended up moving on to morphine, oxy and now I’m on the methadone programme because I decided to take the weak way out. I was also on anti-psychotics and anti-depressants at the same time as my tramadol use and I get regular tests on my liver being on the methadone (as we have to at the clinic I go to) and my liver is still good as gold. I was a poly addict though, used a lot of ritalin when I was younger with the trammys, but ended up moving into a daily IV meth habit along side the opiates and even after 5 years of that my liver is still good! So I’m sure you’ll be sweet 😀
 
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