Research Chemicals and Real or Imagined Conspiracy Discussion

[blowjay]

The title is provocative to say the least but I thought it would be something interesting to post for the sake of others discussion to see what differing opinions are had about the topic.

This was inspired by another post and I felt like taking it another step further.

Quoting from another thread:

"Thanks you for your assistance in getting me through this. I plead that none of you take 4 mg of strong bromo. I dont even reccomend one mg. The stuff is pure evil. Im starting to wonder if that purdue lab and Nichols were working for the cia to wipe out some drug users. Thats where spice bromo and many other drugs like meph came from"

^- This quote is probably not the most factual or politically correct thing in the world but I feel like it is a nice catalyst for things, continuing my own thoughts...


I have questioned his work as well. I agree that it all has scientific validity but also question why certain compounds made my Nichols and company were able to make the rounds in such magnitude when the majority of Shulgin's work has been left untouched.

Food for thought.

Both knew each other and worked with each other but both had very different reasons for working with the compounds and I can't say that Shulgin is the better of the two because equal arguments could potentially be made that he was obsessed with only certain compounds and was very biased.

Personally I am a great fan of Shulgin and his work and think he was working for the greater good of humanity.

If one were to look more into this it would not surprise me to find that there was more to it than meets the eye. Maybe it is just coincidence that Nichols had many compounds make the rounds but maybe it is due to his past students being active in creation of compounds. This kind of talk is all speculation and it is something that a minority of the human race is vaguely knowledgeable about.

To further complicate the situation we have the JWH compounds that came to prominence and to play devils advocate lets say they were all funded for the same reason.

THESE ARE NOT MY FEELINGS ON THE SUBJECT HOWEVER I DO THINK THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION COULD HOLD MERIT.

Online forums have been responsible for research chemical synthesis and acquisition, this is something that is not able to be disputed.

What is able to be discussed though is the varying control that is held over the discovery, analysis, synthesis, acquisition, and distribution of research chemicals.

The control is not held solely in the hands of individuals or researchers or by laboratories or by government agencies.

This is where the tin foil hats come in.

I hope for this discussion to utilize resources that are credible to reference what is discussed, nothing that is baseless is of worth here.

If anyone wants to start this thing off feel free to start up by explaining mk-ultra in better detail than I can do, maybe the contras thing too.

 

[Roger&Me]

If one were to look more into this it would not surprise me to find that there was more to it than meets the eye. Maybe it is just coincidence that Nichols had many compounds make the rounds but maybe it is due to his past students being active in creation of compounds. This kind of talk is all speculation and it is something that a minority of the human race is vaguely knowledgeable about.

that is ludicrous. 1) plenty of shulgin compounds have been widely available for a very long time, nichols compounds are not special in that regard. 2) the reason so many nichols compounds are currently available is because many of them are not covered under the US federal analogue act and chinese shanty labs are pumping them out so they can sell them to people in the US while those compounds still enjoy gray area status. 3) nichols' former students work in academia and other legitimate venues now, they have nothing to with peddling RC's. that is a market that only chinese shanty lab chemists are willing to touch.

your whole post is delusional tbh

 

[perpetualdawn]

It's amazing how powerful the human bias to polarize everything is. Here the myth is: Shulgin is the good guy, Nichols is the bad guy. It's delusional.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Silliness... When creating compounds some are bound to be bad, and some good. Does that mean those that are bad come from some evil place and the good not so much? Roger and perpetual dawn did a good job at covering my other thoughts when reading this.

 

[EarthBounded]

Only in PD. It doesn't take a rocket scientist from a secret society to make a beta-ketone attachment to avoid prosecution...

 

[phenethylo J]

When you have people synthing and selling chemicals solely based on their molecular structure allowing it to fall through a legal loop hole you are bound to have lots of bad ones. These labs in China know people will buy them anyway as long as they get high; so they keep pumping them out because there's lots of money in it.

 

[blowjay]

I agree with this completely :
When you have people synthing and selling chemicals solely based on their molecular structure allowing it to fall through a legal loop hole you are bound to have lots of bad ones. These labs in China know people will buy them anyway as long as they get high; so they keep pumping them out because there's lots of money in it.

 

[blowjay]

that is ludicrous. 1) plenty of shulgin compounds have been widely available for a very long time, nichols compounds are not special in that regard. 2) the reason so many nichols compounds are currently available is because many of them are not covered under the US federal analogue act and chinese shanty labs are pumping them out so they can sell them to people in the US while those compounds still enjoy gray area status. 3) nichols' former students work in academia and other legitimate venues now, they have nothing to with peddling RC's. that is a market that only chinese shanty lab chemists are willing to touch.

your whole post is delusional tbh

I didn't say my post was my opinion or was based on factual events and occurrences.

I pointed out some comparisons to see what kind of discussions I could get (Shulgin vs Nichols being the key trigger to get the responses going, they are both brilliant IMO).

I stated that it is all in the vein of tin-foil hat speculation and nothing about it was reality based (as far as I know).
Discussion of this hypothetical scenario was all I was and am trying to provoke.

That all being said, points 2 and 3 I will give you half agreement with.
You can't tell me that PIHKAL and TIHKAL are exhausted when there are so many other compounds that are left untouched (not to mention his personal notebooks and his PEA reference book). Apparently people forget about things that aren't deemed 'magical' by Shulgin, just my observation.

Nichols on the other hand did not publish literature in a similar manner as PIHKAL and TIHKAL and went about it from a different angle with both research and publishing and I am pretty sure that his compounds are equally as monitored as those of Shulgin although I don't have numbers on this to give you a ratio.

It would be interesting to have a tally of compounds tested by each chemist to be found active and have those sorted by legality and a ratio made to compare the two.

Point 3 holds water but I doubt it is possible to say with 100% confidence that his former students are all completely separated from research chemical handling in one way or another. It may be all theory and no practical but to just blame it all on China is giving them too much credit when you assume China is the only country in charge of production and distribution as well as demand.

Again I am just fanning things for discussion purposes, I am not of knowledge of who is doing what and who churns out what, I just find the discussion entertaining.

 

[sekio]

Nichols is just smart enough to know not to say he eats his creations. He doesn't want to make the same mistake Sasha did and end up losing DEA licensing.

 

[blowjay]

(I agree with you sekio although I think Sasha had more balls and was 'smarter' in a different way... Nichols seems a bit complacent/timid or just more academic)

...and then we have the JWH compounds

The guy that nobody knew about until all the gas stations carried products containing his compounds. And the guy who doesn't comment about his compounds and has a fanbase consisting of people who can't remember what the compound they played with was because they are too 'blended' ha (joking...except for you idiots that do smoke grams of synthetic noids). What does anyone have to say about the JWH compounds and their prominence?

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

(joking...except for you idiots that do smoke grams of synthetic noids)

Why the condescension? We're a drug forum full of drug users and for you to be condescending to us for using certain drugs is quite ridiculous when you likely have your own drug of choice.
Whether a user here uses meth or crack or injects cocaine we are not here to make them feel inferior for doing so, that is not the purpose of this forum; if that is what you prefer I send you in this direction https://www.drugs-forum.com/index.php
Also many of the synthetic cannabinoids were not originally created by the same chemist, and the chemist who created JWH-018 HAS commented on their use, stating he is saddened by their use as a recreational drug and was scared for peoples safety.

 

[sekio]

Well, they're another case of easily synthesized high potency drug analogs... so yeah, again the domain of Chinese shanty labs as soon as any of them bothered to read the literature. JWH just has to do damage control, as any reasonable researcher would do under similar circumstances.

There's plenty of academics doing research in controlled settings with drugs and drug analogs - why shouldn't there be? Certainly there's more to be gained from ... more 'precise' diagnostics than just eating the things.

Is Searle & co. next on the witch hunt, for coming up with diphenidine? Why does it even matter who invented these drugs?

 

[blowjay]

Exactly, it doesn't matter who makes them or uses them just as long as the money comes in ha.

My comment was not against synth noid users but rather against the idiots who literally smoke a gram of the stuff in a week or less, that was the only reason for that comment and it was derogatory as it very dangerous to do. Different folks different strokes, this is a HR forum though so yeah I will call you an idiot for doing stupid shit.

Now we can play around with the blame game on companies and people, Parke and Davis gave us PCP and others IIRC and everyone knows what big pharma has contributed to the mess.

The only thing I am really asking is who does one think coordinates the majority of this and the involvement of all parties? It doesn't matter so much the inventor, I am just trying to discuss the coordination that has to go into the whole system. Its not like 'BOOM NEW ANALOG MADE' and China is pumping it over as fast as others can go through the supplies. I am also not looking to place blame but we all know that the demand has to be created in some way.

I didn't expect for the responses I am getting, I really expected more contra/mk-ultra type responses than the 'shanty-lab' type responses I am getting. Still interesting to me though as it is something I don't recall seeing brought up on here.

EDIT: Bolded the main points of discussion/thought in original post.