Scared Really need some input from some people thinking more clearly right now.

[bdomihizayka]

Hey guys. Been quite a few years. I’m ending my drug use. I have a bit of a problem and would like input. I’m drug-induced hypomanic; please bear with me

Relevant info: no mood or psychological disorders besides a love for heroin and social anxiety- what a disastrous combo lol. But I’m tapering off drugs and experiencing hypomania. Hear me out please.

I am coming off of: suboxone- 8mg/day~8 months (been off it 8 days)

Doxepin- 100mg 2 years (been off 8 days- prescribed by a rehab for sleep, never stopped taking it after rehab)

Klonopin- 1mg for 5-6 weeks (still on)

And I toke cannabis 24/7

Lots of variables.

So I jumped off the suboxone and Doxepin 8 days ago. It wasn’t as bad as I thought but still sucks/ continues to suck.

Now, I want off of the klonopin and weed. I was taking 2mg of klonopin for the first 5 days of withdrawal, now on 1mg again. Here’s the hang-up; I’m becoming hypomanic. Klonopin does this to me when it wears off/ coming off of it but also when I’m on it. My inhibitions are out the window. I’ve been hypomanic before on klonopin. I’m CERTAIN klonopin is the culprit. This isn’t my first tango with the drug. I truly don’t believe this is a latent mental illness as I’m 30 and never had a full blown episode, just hypomanic moods whilst fucking with klonopin in the past.

Now, I’m having a hard time sleeping as it is, I’m getting at least 4 hours a night, usually 6, but what now? I’m scared if I stop smoking the weed, which could be agitating(or helping as some people with bipolar say weed does?) im scared I’m going to have rebound insomnia and go full manic. Should I aggressively taper off this klonopin, stabilize, and then quit smoking? Should I start taking lithium to stabilize my mood?

My concern is also, any drug that touches the histamine receptors makes the restless akathisia unbearable: including antipsychotics. I’m scared to go for medical attention for my withdrawal because I’m afraid the moment I admit I’m hypomanic, I’m getting a big fat shot of olanzepine or something which will make me want to rip my skin off.

I’m a Buddhist, I’m good with being present/ having awareness and not buying into the hypomania, but I am scared. And trying to ask for advice. Any at all.

Reinstating the doxepin/ suboxone is not an option. I’ve had my “ah-ha” moment and want to live my fucking life. (Came to that moment in a non hypomanic state just to clarify LOL)

Help?

 

[draculic acid69]

Stop taking the kpin.it sounds like the source of problems.stop taking it and see how it goes.

 

[bdomihizayka]

Stop taking the kpin.it sounds like the source of problems.stop taking it and see how it goes.

This is where I’m at mentally. My gut says get the fuck off as fast as you can; but I also know I’m minorly dependent on it and don’t want to cold turkey and be thrown into a depersonalized/derealized hell. I was thinking like a 5 day taper or so minimally would be smart? Or just jump and fuck it/ woman up with the hellish depersonalized LSD trip that acute Benzo withdrawal throws me in?

Thank you for replying- it means so much!

 

[Mafioso]

If you aren't going to use other medications to assist you in stepping off the kpin, or any benzo for that matter, then it's in my opinion absolutely necessary that you do a slow enough taper that you don't shock your system and psyche by a drastic chemical change. Your brain, body, and psyche have all adapted to the increased levels of foreign chemicals you ingest on a daily. In the same way that people typically slowly build tolerance over long periods of time, you must drop your tolerance over a long period of time to avoid the sudden drop and body's attempt to correct.

If it was me, I would take it one drug at a time. It's also my opinion that detoxing slowly will put the least shock on your psyche and habits, so less likely to cause other mental problems like mania or physiological problems like seizure. You come slowly back to reality and slowly release your delusion or unrealistic thinking while slowly adopting more rational and logical thoughts. It's also generally less disruptive to your life and daily habits, which can be a good or bad thing, but if you have a decent job you don't want to lose or use medical assistance, best go slow. Most of the risk of WD/detox comes from the sudden change and resulting shock it causes to the body constantly trying to maintain an equilibrium.

General rule of thumb for tapering benzos is dropping by ~10% every 1-2 weeks, fast enough to make you a bit uncomfortable but not so fast that you are putting yourself at risk of the more serious benzo withdrawal symptoms like psychosis and seizure. How fast you can go will largely depend on how you handle stress and your lifestyle/environment. If you handle stress well, or are in an environment without much stress, you'll probably be able to taper a bit quicker than if you are working a high stress job and don't handle stress well. Watch yourself for symptoms such as intense anxiety during things that didn't stress you before, insomnia, irritability, nausea, lack of appetite. When I taper, I go fast enough to where I am in mild withdrawal and use the taper doses to manage these symptoms so I can still function. Not being able to eat or sleep, constantly being anxious or afraid, are signs that I'm going a little too fast. When I've ignored these signs in the past, I've had to deal with seizure and psychosis.

Hypomania is a difficult one to deal with because some of it is definitely caused by the benzo use itself, and although withdrawal might initially make it worse, you should level off after falling into a bit of depression. I'm guessing it's a combination of lowered inhibition combined with increase in excitatory neurotransmitters(glutamate) as well as imbalanced levels of GABA. Either way, I find exercise to be really helpful in balancing my moods and dealing with anxiety when coming off benzos, although exercise should be done with caution while detoxing.


5 days is definitely too short of a taper, imo, especially since you are already detoxing off subs. I would say expect to taper for 1-2+ months if you want to do it as smoothly as possible without any other meds or complications if you are coming off 1- 2mg/day, and I wouldn't start that taper for another week or so. And with benzos, I've found that at the end of my taper to start skipping days before finally stepping completely off. This has led to the smoothest transitions off, none of which are all that smooth, but at least it's not so disruptive to my life like that.

 

[sewerslide.666mg]

yes b care full with kpin, they would make me a lil manic like energy, but yeah k pins have a long half life you can do it mind over matter n taper

 

[nuttynutskin]

I thought from what I read going OFF the klonopin is making them hypomanic. The obvious answer would be to taper off instead of going cold turkey.

 

[bdomihizayka]

If you aren't going to use other medications to assist you in stepping off the kpin, or any benzo for that matter, then it's in my opinion absolutely necessary that you do a slow enough taper that you don't shock your system and psyche by a drastic chemical change. Your brain, body, and psyche have all adapted to the increased levels of foreign chemicals you ingest on a daily. In the same way that people typically slowly build tolerance over long periods of time, you must drop your tolerance over a long period of time to avoid the sudden drop and body's attempt to correct.

If it was me, I would take it one drug at a time. It's also my opinion that detoxing slowly will put the least shock on your psyche and habits, so less likely to cause other mental problems like mania or physiological problems like seizure. You come slowly back to reality and slowly release your delusion or unrealistic thinking while slowly adopting more rational and logical thoughts. It's also generally less disruptive to your life and daily habits, which can be a good or bad thing, but if you have a decent job you don't want to lose or use medical assistance, best go slow. Most of the risk of WD/detox comes from the sudden change and resulting shock it causes to the body constantly trying to maintain an equilibrium.

General rule of thumb for tapering benzos is dropping by ~10% every 1-2 weeks, fast enough to make you a bit uncomfortable but not so fast that you are putting yourself at risk of the more serious benzo withdrawal symptoms like psychosis and seizure. How fast you can go will largely depend on how you handle stress and your lifestyle/environment. If you handle stress well, or are in an environment without much stress, you'll probably be able to taper a bit quicker than if you are working a high stress job and don't handle stress well. Watch yourself for symptoms such as intense anxiety during things that didn't stress you before, insomnia, irritability, nausea, lack of appetite. When I taper, I go fast enough to where I am in mild withdrawal and use the taper doses to manage these symptoms so I can still function. Not being able to eat or sleep, constantly being anxious or afraid, are signs that I'm going a little too fast. When I've ignored these signs in the past, I've had to deal with seizure and psychosis.

Hypomania is a difficult one to deal with because some of it is definitely caused by the benzo use itself, and although withdrawal might initially make it worse, you should level off after falling into a bit of depression. I'm guessing it's a combination of lowered inhibition combined with increase in excitatory neurotransmitters(glutamate) as well as imbalanced levels of GABA. Either way, I find exercise to be really helpful in balancing my moods and dealing with anxiety when coming off benzos, although exercise should be done with caution while detoxing.


5 days is definitely too short of a taper, imo, especially since you are already detoxing off subs. I would say expect to taper for 1-2+ months if you want to do it as smoothly as possible without any other meds or complications if you are coming off 1- 2mg/day, and I wouldn't start that taper for another week or so. And with benzos, I've found that at the end of my taper to start skipping days before finally stepping completely off. This has led to the smoothest transitions off, none of which are all that smooth, but at least it's not so disruptive to my life like that.

Thank you soooo much for the well thought out answer. I was thinking 5 days because I was only on 1mg a month- 5 weeks or so, but I’ve been hooked by way less usage so yea, maybe go slower. I’m not sure if it’s the effect of the klonopin or going off it or both- but yea I’m certain that’s where the hypomania comes from in this situation.

Thank you again! I see my doctor tomorrow and since I’ve made my mind to finally, sincerely be done, I’m spilling my guts to her and seeing what she’s got up her sleeve. She’s very holistic, I feel calmer than before. You’ve settled my frantic mind much love.

 

[Mafioso]

Glad to hear that I could help... if it's only been 5 weeks, a rapid taper might not be a bad idea. That is usually what I do when tapering off after a couple months of use. Even still, a rapid taper might be 25% per week- so 1 month. 5 days isn't really enough time to taper, as it doesn't allow your body to really adjust a whole lot more than going cold turkey. 5 days is better than 0, but not by a whole lot and I'd be concerned about seizure if it was me personally.

Hopefully your doctor will be understanding. Let us know how it goes and if you have any other questions or you just need support. We are here for you.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Doctor.
Be honest and open about everything.
There are still some good ones out there

Mine wouldn’t recommend anti anxiety or anti psychotics because you’ve done too much to yourself already and any reaction will be too damned unpredictable.

If it were me, I’d go with weed and cut off the rest for 30 days.
Clean out your system and start from scratch.


But long term you need a GP you can trust or you’ll be back here in a month or two with the same issues

 

[bdomihizayka]

Doctor.
Be honest and open about everything.
There are still some good ones out there

Mine wouldn’t recommend anti anxiety or anti psychotics because you’ve done too much to yourself already and any reaction will be too damned unpredictable.

If it were me, I’d go with weed and cut off the rest for 30 days.
Clean out your system and start from scratch.


But long term you need a GP you can trust or you’ll be back here in a month or two with the same issues

Sorry, I don’t know how to multiquote, but thanks to both of yous responding to me. Yes, my one doctor is amazing. She’s phillipino, and half naturalpathic 100% MD. She’s not a fan of pharmaceuticals unless necessary. She also worked with heroin addicts/ studied them for 10 years or something like that at Columbia University. (Plus, I have her cell and we’re family friends). She hooked me up with opioids when she knew I was a heroin addict when going through a really hard surgery- even asking me what I needed (due to my tolerance).

I’m extremely grateful for her. I’ve been holding in my “energy” all day, focusing on the Buddhist concept of “right thought” and just wanted to waste it in a loving, productive manner. She definitely graced me more times than she ever should have. I’m so grateful.

Anyways- she gave me a tapering plan, and asked me if the hypomania was going up or down, whatever I notice. She also gave me a script for a low dose of lithium I need to get compounded actually and said to take it if it even starts getting too intense; if I don’t want to take it right now. She wants me on it, and she’s always wanted the best for me, so against my better (clouded) judgment, I’ll probably start taking them tomorrow. I’m just really worried about “rebound hypomania” from lithium.

I’m also with the rents, and they know exactly what’s up: I’ve told them to let me know when I’m toning down, and today they said “it’s like you switched to diet crack now, much better” lol! Like I said, it’s a bit less intense and I feel I can hold it in more.

I’ll keep everyone posted. I don’t want to get a craving and be back here like you said. I’m holding strong still. ❤

 

[bdomihizayka]

Ground control to major tom

I’m back

I can’t believe I was complaining about feeling like that. Now, I feel like a spent load.

Thank you everyone who helped, once again.

I’ll keep this updated- tapering the klonopin now. Almost time for the big V shot/ some proactive steps forward.

 

[Mafioso]

That's good to hear, sounds like you are in good hands. I would probably feel the same way about the lithium, but if all what you say about your doctor is true, then it sounds like you'll be taken care of. I doubt this is going to be long term, and is probably just a step in the process of getting off all pharmaceuticals.

How long of a klonopin taper did your dr. put you on?

 

[bdomihizayka]

That's good to hear, sounds like you are in good hands. I would probably feel the same way about the lithium, but if all what you say about your doctor is true, then it sounds like you'll be taken care of. I doubt this is going to be long term, and is probably just a step in the process of getting off all pharmaceuticals.

How long of a klonopin taper did your dr. put you on?

Yea, she really did study heroin addicts specifically for a decade at Columbia and is a great personal friend.

Thanks for the assurance. I’m nearly positive it’s the detox/ klonopin too.

She said to keep smoking at night for sleep. 1 month taper to start when I’m a little more centered from the subs/ doxepin; which should be any day, I feel “decent” besides the depressive crash. Once the klonopin is out of the way, then I can toss the weed away.

Thanks again

 

[Mafioso]

That sounds great. Keep us updated on how things go for you.

If you can, try to get outside and catch some sun, maybe go on a short walk. Working on gratitude and reminding yourself all that you have to be thankful for can help with the depression as well. It's going to be a bit of an emotional rollercoaster, so try to keep in mind this is all for your better in the long term.

 

[ThoseCleverKids]

“it’s like you switched to diet crack now, much better”

Hahaha, holy shit your parents sound brilliant!

I can't offer any advice for most of the meds you mentioned, but it seems like you're getting great advice and support on that front and doing really well with it, so I thought I'd just throw in my 2 cents on the weed. I have a bastard case of social/generalized anxiety too, and until a few months ago was smoking daily for many years, from the moment I woke up until the moment I went to sleep. The last year or so it was well over an ounce a week of killer weed (which I was growing... Man I miss growing!) And all that wine... I've been lucky enough to never have a reliable source of opiates - disastrous combo indeed.

Anyhow quitting definitely screwed up my sleep for a few weeks, but within a month I was sleeping better than I have in years, and although it certainly hasn't stopped my anxiety, it's taken the teeth out of it a little, at least to where I can try to make some progress there in other ways.

So yeah, congratulations on all the progress you've made, I hope you get to keep going forward (mostly!) and building a life you like =)

 

[bdomihizayka]

Feeling like a spent load but still pushing. Keeping this updated. Sorry I’m not too talkative lol

 

[Zonxx]

Feeling like a spent load but still pushing. Keeping this updated. Sorry I’m not too talkative lol

atleast you're alive, i'm just sitting here wondering if i'll even see that sunrise this morning, but with my luck it'll be a cloudy shitty day.

 

[sewerslide.666mg]

sometimes I like rainy days, not all the time but some times