Real herbal blend or laced synthetics?

[bazzaw]

Hi all,

First post, I have done a couple hours of searching and reading and haven't come across anything that answers my question yet.

I have received 3 different types of herbal mixes from 2 different herbal style shops and they both claim they are completely natural with no synthetic cannabinoids at . I am moderately experienced so this begs my question if they are really herbals or just laced synthetics, because these do give a very good high but show similar attributes to synths such as the high comes on within seconds, then lasts about 15 minutes of intense feelings, then its followed by another 30 mins of blissful relaxed feelings.

The 3 names of these mixes are Mellow Mood, Timeless Tea and Midnight.

The Timeless Tea has an ingredients list on it, exactly as per packet:
Zornia Latifolia
Lacluca Virosa
Combrelum Caffrum
Cinnamon Zeylanicum
Nelumbo Nucifera

Extracts of:
Kanna
Cinnamon
Tumera Diffusa Theobroma
Cacao LMain

Constilents of Cacao root include:
caffeine
thiamin
theobromine
fructose
anandamide
riboflavinacetic
acidbeta carotene
alkaloids
phenylalaninedextrinase
palmitoylethanalmide
glycarophosphatase
nicin
p-hydroxypheny lacetic
acidmethyleptonone
betasilosterol
pectin
cellulase and leucocyanidins
quercetin-3-o-glucoside
vitamin E oil
glycerine

Enhanced with artificial additives, preservatives and flavours:
Pineapple flavour
Chocolate Flavour

The 3 mixes are very similar but just different intensities.

Is anyone able to tell me where the high is coming from, is it relatively safe and has anyone heard of any of these mixes before?
If no one can put a finger on it, then perhaps they could be laced?

Two of them are sold from a fairly trust worthy shop in Australia, however the Midnight pack says not for human consumption and is from a less reliable source so I have more doubts about this one.

Thanks

 

[LifeIsStrange]

Only thing I can say - chemicals made always more boom and faster addicted (mostly you know what I mean. Chemical drugs.)

 

[bazzaw]

That is often the case, but not always LifeIsStrange. Nature can be powerful, especially if when using the extraction methods.

Hoping someone might know some more about these particular blends perhaps?

ta.

 

[Oakstone]

Not sure about the other ingredients, but kanna can be pretty powerful at times, so it could be that that you're feeling.

 

[hydr0m0rph]

based on how toxic synth cannabinoids can be.. id be very careful and not trust anything written on the packet..

 

[dopamimetic]

Yeah they always say it's just pure nature at first until someone discovers one more new synthetic.

And at last we have all these Cath chewers who get mouth cancer etc... not because of the plant, but the pesticides and fungicides they use are so horribly toxic.

 

[spacejunk]

I think i know the company that sells these things.
Their mislabelling is notoriously deliberate, i wouldnt touch any of it.

I cant really give you an answer that isnt based on anything besides speculation, but i am quite certain the "herbal" claims are utter bullshit.
Cannabis is much safer.

 

[bazzaw]

So everyone seems to think that it is likely a synth.

I know a guy that got the full range of tests inc synths because he was involved in an accident on a minesite and nothing showed. But of course I know that they modify them to easily bypass tests and laws so it still doesn't mean much.

I will be careful with what blends I have left. Perhaps I could separately acquire the said herbs then learn to extract in order to mimic the ingredients listed and compare them to see how similar / different the outcome is. Although the ingredients lack weights or percentages and extract ratio's so this is also risky and has holes in it...

If I have any further updates, i'll let everyone know.

Cheers all.

 

[spacejunk]

Basically the way people are still selling these blends in a country as strict as australia is to lie about their contents.
Caveat emptor!

None of the listed ingredients are particularly psychoactive in a way that would resemble cannabis.
Rather than trying to make extracts of your own, you'd be better off finding an organisation that can test them for you, to be perfectly honest.
And i think you'd likely find that they are laced with a new generation cannabimimetic substance.
I can't say that for sure, but i am fully aware of how some of these dodgy 'herb' (wink, wink) vendors in australia operate. Basically, they lie about what's in their stuff. Having worked in a store that sold some of that kind of thing about 10 years ago, i've seen how it goes, and it's a bit of a worry.

Frankly i stay the hell away from these ('legal herbal weed') sorts of drugs, they are really dangerous - and in a blend you are taking a massive gamble because you don't have any idea what chemicals or dose you are taking.

At least people dealing with pure synthetic cannabinoids are able to dose fairly accurately and with a bit of research and care, have some idea what they are taking, and what to expect (in terms of effects and risk). But even that information is generally anecdotal, and gleaned from internet discussion boards or vendor descriptions...which isn't very scientific or reliable.

Blends can be unevenly dosed (creating hot-spots, thus an OD risk) and most of the newer synthetic cannabinoids have pretty risky safety profiles, little margin for error dose-wise - as well as the fact that they are completely untested chemicals, with no understanding of short or long term effects.
Of all research chemicals, consuming smoking blends like this is unfortunately one of the most risky, as innocuous as getting stoned on something resembling cannabis may seem.

But none of these chems have weed's history of use, safety profile or reliability.

Without wishing to sound preachy, I urge to be really careful with this stuff.

Your mate likely come up clean in a drug screen because synthetics don't have any pharmacological similarity with THC, but simply act on some of the same receptors in the brain.
The high you describe sounds exactly like some of the synthetic 'noids i experimented with years ago; intense and shortlived.
And people making blends are constantly changing the active ingredient as older ones get known, banned and able to be identified by authorities - meaning the consumer is on sharp end of a risky business, always getting unknown drugs on their smoking blend.

I'd stick to good ol' ganja, personally. It's so much safer.

 

[bazzaw]

Thanks for the thorough feedback Spacejunk. I will be careful until my stash is depleted, then seek something else out more natural and more well known as I don't smoke cannabis.

Contrary to my last sentence, I had a fairly big weekend on it and the effects go way behind just having a few tame puffs. Had some hallucinations, disconnections from my physical body where I felt like everything was occurring from completely different viewpoints or different layers. I was calling it at different frequencies at the time. I also had vivid memories that were real from random times that I have never really thought of before (mostly childhood) but also including memories that flashed up from different physical bodies. Sounds pretty crazy I know, and I guess it has similarities to DMT perhaps but I have never used DMT so I can't compare.

Don't flame me for the crazy symptoms, just trying to describe what the hell was going on after a bigger weekend of it. But yes I think i'll keep it a little more tame again from here!

 

[spacejunk]

Yeah, the effects you're describing sound like synthetic cannabinoids for sure.
Tread with caution

 

[bazzaw]

New update, especially to warn anyone else who might come across the 'Midnight' branded packet.

So I tried the Midnight spice for the first time, only smoking a very small amount, it was very strong and and I had a good night on it, each small top up lasts a good hour or so. Over the night I had consumed a fair bit of alcohol, about 10 beers and a few wines and topped up on Midnight maybe 2-3 times.

Only when I went to bed it all happened, I could feel the Midnight wearing off so I decided to have one last top up, and it was still a small amount but I probably held it in for longer than normal. I laid down and closed my eyes and within an instant I was in this black space and was falling fast and hard. I could visually see my brain in front of me and it was spinning and spiraling downwards. It felt like I was falling off a skyscraper or an out of control show ride (the scary thing was that I was up in a tall building!). Then I finally hit the bottom, my brain was bent and badly out of shape, it either disappeared or went to the side of me somewhere. I had completely lost my body, (which I later learnt that this was a full disssociative), and I was stuck in this black empty room with no where to go or see.

It was probably about this time my partner was saying something to me as I realised that I had lost my body and needed to get back and had no idea how to go about it. Next I noticed a green puddle near me, I realised that it supposed to be my body but it was just a puddle. I reached into the puddle and I could pull out different body parts and this scared the shit out of me as now I thought that I had no body to get back to. I wondered if I had died or was dyeing, or was I just a vegetable now? But I quickly pushed these thoughts away and told myself that I am coming back, as soon as I work out how but I just had to do it!

Seeing as the only thing I could see at this point was my green body puddle, I had to use this and my only thoughts were is that I had to rebuilt my body out of the green pieces to re-make my body then I could re-enter it again. First I started with the head and brain as it was the most complicated, but that wouldn't work as it had no neck to sit on and it kept falling apart. So I found the feet first, then worked my way up and thank god it seemed to have worked, it seemed like this life size jigsaw puzzle took forever and I even had to re-map my brain.

I got a 2D picture/video come through of my partner however she was stuck in a loop asking if I was ok, it just kept going and going, maybe for a minute, maybe for 5 minutes. I had absolutely no perceptions of anything at this point. I recall saying 'help me', but then responding that 'i'm ok'. I just don't think I wanted to freak her out any more than I was hence telling her that I was ok. After talking about the whole thing later, I suspect that this was around the 20 minute mark.

The next breakthrough I had saw down from the roof and saw myself being walked very slowly around the room being held up by my partner, one foot at a time just shuffling and I realised that she was trying to get me moving to help bring me back, so I floated back down and in and smack, I felt again. I was super duper heavy and had a super dry mouth, it was very hard to remain upright but we both tried to stay up so I could remain back on earth again. I was shaking and could barely hold a glass of water to my mouth, then had a long cold shower and everything was ok.

Sooo.. I have spent the last couple of days researching the shit out of what it might have been, still can't find much as RC information is still quite rare, but from a non RC point of view it sounds close to a Salvia trip if not Ketamine or PCP. But yes I understand this isn't any of those, but a synthetic that mimics one of those. Psychoactives are fairly new to me so I had no idea about the 'hole' that you can go to, I think I would have been a lot better if I understood what was going on rather than just thinking I was possibly about to die. I have had an interest in trying Salvia before, but I just simply wasn't prepared for this trip.

I have had the 'Mellow Moods' and 'Timeless Tea' a fair bit now so I am comfortable with those ones, but I doubt I will touch 'Midnight' again until at least I can find out what it is because it was a bit too deep for me unless things are a bit more controlled.

I understand alcohol and potential hot spots had a lot to do with this hard trip, but just putting it out there in case anyone else has come across Midnight, they need to know what it is capable of.


PS. I know you couldn't have given me anymore cautions about these spacejunk than you already did, so thanks otherwise it could have been potentially even worse!

 

[spacejunk]

No worries man, take care