Quitting Heroin once and for all utilizing methadone then suboxone.

[GoShredAK]

My wife and I have been struggling with an off and on heroin habit for the past few years.

We have always smoked it, and in the past we have been able to quit and stay off for months, but we always relapse eventually. When we quit it was always cold turkey followed by three days of moderate discomfort. After the three days we would feel notably better and only have cravings to deal with.

This time we are in a little bit deeper then before. I say that because we have been using very consistently and for longer then all the other times before. On a few occasions we have been out of luck and missed a day. Once we hit 24 hours we start to feel like crap. We both get bad RLS, restless entire body really, anxiety (I get that real bad), irritability, extreme lack of energy, total gray depression, aches and pains, horrible sleep, and stomach issues.

We are so freaking sick of this. We are so burnt out on stressing every day about getting something, spending all of our money, and watching life just pass us by as all we do anymore is get high or lay around in stressful discomfort waiting to get high.

We have been telling each other we need to quit for a long time but never quite commit. That is until now.

We just acquired four 8/2 suboxone strips and six 10mg methadone pills. So that's 2 subs and three methadones for each of us.

My rough plan is to do our last dose of H Monday morning (smoking) it will probably be just 1/10 of a gram give or take a point. To give an idea of our level of dependency, that amount wont get us high but it will be sufficient to keep us out of withdrawal for about 24 hours.

We will then wait till we start to feel miserable, when we do we will take our first 10mgs of methadone. I pray that'll be enough to kill the withdrawals.

Them we will hold out as long as possible and take another 10mgs.

Then I am thinking 5mgs the next day, and the last 5 the following day.

At this point we will be in day 3 no H, and have nothing left except suboxone.

Next we plan on waiting the sufficient amount of time for the methadone to be out of our system and inducting suboxone when the withdrawals come back. This part will be difficult because we will have to tough it out for, I am thinking 3 days? Before trying suboxone to avoid throwing ourselves into precip...

So the plan is to get through that time, most likely start to feel miserable to the point where we want to cave and get some H, and start the Sub.

I am thinking we will start with 2mgs, wait an hour, take another 2mgs if needed.

Then the same thing the following day, once we start hurting, 2mgs followed by another 2mgs probably before bed.

At this point we will each only have one 8mg strip each.

We will start tapering off the sub at this point. I am thinking we should dose depending on how we feel In the amounts of 2mgs, 1mg, 1mg, 1mg, 1mg, 1/2, 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8.....roughly.....

Does that seem like a feasible plan?

Any feedback and/or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you so much for reading, and I look forward to reading and contributing here into the future.

 

[oxlong27]

Due to methadone's long half life, methadone and suboxone don't mix well. I've got precipitated withdrawal 3 days after my last methadone dose when I took a suboxone. Do what you think is best but I would stick with one or the other. However it should be noted my last dose of MD was on the high side (120 mg) so you may be OK but if it was me I wouldn't risk it. Precipitated WD really sucks

 

[GoShredAK]

Thanks for the reply.

Someone recommended that maybe we should do it the other way around. Subs first then methadone. Is that a good idea? It kind of makes sense to me.

I wonder if 24 hours will be a sufficient amount of time to safely start suboxone when our last few doses of H were only 1/10 of a gram?

Or if we should start the suboxone shortly after withdrawals start or if we should wait until we have been in withdrawal for a day and can't take it anymore?

I want to do this right and avoid precip, but I also don't want my wife and I to suffer needlessly.

 

[oxlong27]

The sub's before the MD is a better ideas in my opinion BUT make sure you are in complete withdrawal from the h before taking it or you will get precipitated withdrawal. Wait as long as you can before your first sub dose. Personally I would just use the one you have more of and forget the other. Using the sub's first is a better idea but not ideal, if you don't wait long enough after taking the sub's it will block the methadone and be useless anyway. Have you thought of using kratom for a taper? I don't have experience with kratom but I read many success stories of kratom tapers. Whatever you decide, good luck I'm rooting for you guys. Its tough

 

[Ilove2nod]

Why not just take the subs? The methadone should DEFINITELY be taken, if even needed, after the sub taper! But then, after doing the sub taper, you may want more dope, so at least if you take the sub first, you wont go into precip WD from taking the methadone, after the subs.. or if at all, if you feel like you wont actually need it... If I were you I would try and get rid of the 'dones all together and just get more subs, maybe see if someone would trade you? Those two drugs, I have heard nothing but nightmare stories from taking subs too soon after dones.. That is how subs work, they are fine to take, and then take a full agonist hours/days after your sub, if your actually trying to feel the full agonist, fully, without the blocking effect of buprenorphine.. obviously, most people are lol..

If you take methadone, then subs, your fucked if you take your sub too soon, for some people methadone stays in their system so long, that they could take a sub like 4-7 days after their last dose of 'done, and still go into awful precipitated WD.. but with dope, you only really need to wait like 12 hours, maybe a full 18-24 to be on the safe side( I only ever had to wait 10-12 hrs, and never went into precip WDs before.. I have a super fast metabolism though.). Smoking H, usually doesn't build up in your system too long, out of all the ROAs for H, smoking I think has one of the shortest durations of action, IME with it at least it does, I have done H(powder and tar) every ROA except for plugging, oral(which is totally useless) and IM.. smoked it, sniffed it, and shot it, many many times.. it doesn't last as long as sniffing it or shooting it does when you smoke it, IME! But others may beg to differ, so it varies from person to person but, that's my experience with the dope to sub transition, never got on methadone(only tried it a couple times, when I was dopesick and nothing else was around) but have lots of friends who have, and cannot get off of it now..

Definitely take the sub first, before the 'done.. you may not even need the done though, and why make yourself go through even worse withdrawls, from the methadone, if you don't really need to? I wouldn't have gotten those 2 meds to get off dope, just one or the other, they DO NOT mix well... just the slightest mistake, and you will be dying from PWD.

 

[oxlong27]

This ^^^ basically same thing I was saying. I would go sub's skip the 'done or stash it for a rainy day. Or think about kratom

 

[MissBoo]

I only read your title but I need to write this before I get I damaged my brain and memory when I had a seizure from taking too much tramadol. Anyways if you go from heroin to methadone most my friends who are coming off heroin going to methadone have to take very high doses to relieve the withdrawal. If you wanna switch from methadone to subs you can't be on anymore than 30mg otherwise they will make you go down to do the switch

 

[GoShredAK]

Man sorry to hear about your experience with tramadol. I hate that drug and I think it is a crime doctors prescribe it so easily. In my experience they don't even know about the ssri component or the seizure risk.

A doctor actually prescribed me tramadol when she knew I was already withdrawing from benzos.......fortunately I didn't take them then.

I did take tramadol eventually though one time when I was starting to go into opiate withdrawals and it was a terrible idea.

I only took 100mgs and within a half hour I started to feel really weird and extremely anxious. I almost had a panic attack. I laid down terrified I would have a seizure any moment and my body was twitching uncontrollably all over the place and my ears were ringing.

After that for about two weeks I started having these sleep paralysis or nocturnal seizure episodes every other night.

I would wake up and feel like I was in sleep paralysis but my breathing felt heavy and labored and I was having these were electric pulse sounds and feelings in my brain.

It was really scary, I am pretty sure they were seizures rather than sleep paralysis.

I started smoking weed again and continued using opiates and the episodes have stopped. I think the cannabis is the main cure that made them go away.

The only time I didn't have a bad time on tramadol was when I loaded up on xanax, but that's not worth it in the long run and I think could make things much worse when they wear off.

 

[GoShredAK]

Any way, In regard to the OP.....

My plan to quit failed, but I still have some suboxone and more lined up.

What happened is we couldn't get H for about 2days so the first morning we woke up feeling a little crappy we each took 20mgs of methadone and it was just enough to hold us for about 24 hours until we scored again.

After that we went maintained on about 1/4 to 1/2 gram of H every day roughly, with one break in the middle where we took the rest of the methadone to get by, up until now basically.

At this point we are even more motivated to quit and kind of have to because we are out of money, and we need to get well before we go to visit my in-laws in California. We need to either get clean or find a way to maintain so we aren't sick on this vacation.

So for the past 3 days we have barely maintained on about 1/10 of a gram a day. Smoking the last point yesterday afternoon.

This morning we both woke up very early feeling the early stages of withdrawals, just some major restlessness and generally uncomfortable and depressed.

Knowing we probably had no way to score and wanting to quit I took about 5mgs of suboxone, 3 different doses of 2mgs over 4 hours.

This was about 14 hours since the last dose of H and no precipitated withdrawals! After about an hour I felt noticeably better, I had a little more energy, didn't really crave H, and just felt close to normal.

This is very encouraging to me because I now know when to take it to avoid precip and I know it works, and quitting is very possible. It worked just as well for wife, she took 1 dose of 4mgs.

Unfortunately we both are still not 100% committed. Our person let us know she had a 1/4 gram of H for us on a front, lacking self Control, even knowing the sub will block it, we went and picked that up along with about the same amount of crystal meth.

Right now our plan is to use what drugs we have, trying to hold of on the H as long as possible, and wait till we feel sick again and get back on the subs, only this time we wont be getting any more H and will legitimately try to quit. It helps because we really wont be able to get anything anyway.

Were going to try and stretch out what little sub we have as long as possible, I'm going to try and get a prescription of xanax, and we will just take those for a couple of days to take the edge of and smoke as much good herb as possible.

I think we will be successful soon, especially now that we know the subs work, and that our dependency is not that severe. I just hope we can get a few more suboxone strips to make it happen.

The next challenge will be California. Ideally we will be clean by the time we get there In two weeks, but my wife knows people, we will have some money, and it will be cheaper and probably better.

We have admitted to each other will probably give in and score in Cali, but our plan is to use and enjoy what we get while we are there, make sure we have some suboxone waiting for us here At home, and quit once and for all utilizing only suboxone for 3-5 days, xanax for a day or two, and then nothing but good clean Mary Jane.

It is a foolish and precarious situation we find ourselves in but amid the pitfalls and negativity and traps, there is hope and potential for us to embrace the desire to live without this addiction and succeed, never to look back.

 

[GoShredAK]

Also It should be noted, I took about 40mgs of methadone about 7days ago. This morning I took suboxone and experienced zero precipitated withdrawal.

In my case at least, after using methadone for two days in a row, 20mgs a day, 7 days was an adequate amount of time to wait before starting suboxone.

Also I tapered down from .50 to .06 (half gram to 1/10) of black tar a day and only waited 14 hours before starting suboxone and felt zero precipitated withdrawals, and noticable relief from withdrawals and cravings.

 

[GoShredAK]

This is day four off heroin.

Eventually ran out of everything and woke up knowing it was time. This time I only waited about nine hours before taking suboxone, but I was already sick for the day before that and only smoked 1/10 of a Gram of tar the night before which barely made withdrawals go away.

So tapering definitely helps prepare the receptors for suboxone.

Ever since I have felt mostly normal. Maybe just a bit low energy and depression.

Suboxone can definitely work. It has been a night and day difference for us, when compared to cold turkey, or tapering with nothing to help.

We have made it four days using only 16mgs of suboxone strip each.

We have been taking approximately 2-mgs every 12 hours, with an initial 4mg dose.

All out of suboxone now, we are both feeling ok. We just needed help getting past those first 3 days. I am hopeful that there wont be any withdrawals when the suboxone wears off. We shall see.

Then there will be the obstacle of California. We are planning on possibly not getting anything. If it is sketchy or a hassle we wont even bother. If it is convenient and easy we both know we wont be able to resist.

Even if we score in Cali, we just going to enjoy what we get and then be done. We aren't going to come home and go back into the same habit of the last few months. We are so sick of spending all our money and wasting our days stressing about the next score.

It has been nice not constantly thinking about how and when I will get high again. I pray I can stay clean and start rebuilding this life.......i think I got it, we shall see.