Misc Questions re: 5-HTP for Zaps

[water bear]

It's typical for me to experience brain zaps if I don't use any meth for a day or so. But recently, they're increasing in frequency and if I sleep 6 hours, I'm waking up with them. Once they come on, they come and go all day, even after I use. It's like no matter what, they don't cease altogether until around 12 hours after onset. So, I got some 200mg time release 5-HTP and thought I'd try taking one when I plan on sleeping more than a handful of hours and see if prevents the zaps.

There's a lotta conflicting info out there (and around here) on 5-HTP and I haven't pinned down how long the time release is on these tablets. I've seen it listed as 4-5 hrs for the 100mg, and 10, 12, & 15 hours for the 200mg. The manufacture's website just says, "Natrol’s Time Release tablets are formulated so that they release slowly over a certain time period." So.. Afaik 5-HTP hasn't been associated clinically with serotonin syndrome in people, but I'd still be nervous to do a shot too soon after taking it.

Thoughts on how long to wait to partake after taking 5-HTP TR or if its necessary to wait?

Anybody out there taken 5-HTP to alleviate brain zaps, specifically?
- Did you take it on its own or along with something else?
- Any unanticipated symptoms? Did it work?

Thanks in advance!

*I'm not sure which forum is most appropriate for this thread - apologies if I got it wrong.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

What other medications and drugs do you take? I'm wondering if brain zaps are a side effect of something else. I've read a lot about 5-HTP being dangerous to mix with certain substances like MDMA. But in practice I've seen tons of people eat them together and not suffer any bad effects. Serotonin Syndrome has always been a thing with so much conflicting information attached to it. Even if you disregard all the advice it only seems to happen to an unlucky few.

Brain zaps are not normal. It might be a better idea to go without meth for longer to see if they stop. Did you experience them before using meth? You stand more of a chance hurting yourself than you do help attempting to self medicate for this. I'm poor and never visit doctors but if I were having regular brain zaps I would seek one out.

If that's not an option then the best thing would be doing nothing. Which sadly includes stopping your drug of choice for a little while to find out where your new baseline is. You need to figure out if this is the result of using meth/withdrawal or if there is some underlying issue. Trying to mask it with another drug is a bad idea.

 

[water bear]

I'm not taking any meds or other drugs regularly, but do, on occasion, take small amounts of MDMA, prescription opioids or buprenorphine if they crop up. Nothing aside from meth in several weeks, though.

I've used meth on & off for over 15 years, but this has only been happening the past year or so. The only time I can remember experiencing them before was when I was prescribed Effexor as a teenager. I think you're right about taking a break being the best move here, though, and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Brain zaps are weird, not everybody gets them and not everybody to the same extent. I'm myself prone to but only with seriously serotonergic substances, not meth, but I've also been using only low dosages. With higher ones I guess it's not too uncommon for sensitive people. Unfortunately for those, brain zaps are kind of 'normal' when using serotonergics. Possibly having taken an SSRI antidepressant in the past for longer than a few weeks might potentiate the risk.

As long as it's not too much of them, 5-htp certainly helps. For stronger cases there's kanna (sceletum tortiosum). Also the dangers of combining 5-htp with serotonergics are overblown imo, the 5-htp isn't active on its own but only aids in filling up the storage vesicles if I'm not mistaken, so there's little chance for anything like serotonin syndrome. Also for most (note: not all, there seem to be exceptions but odds are that they took something else on top but didn't reveal that) people serotonin syndrome requires MAO inhibition.

 

[Vagabond696]

I accidentally overamped trying to combat a bad insomnia episode and was running on 4hrs this week. Had like 4hrs of really intense then leveled. I was still electric earlier today but it has subsided. Should I be concerned or speak to a doctor?

 

[Robi]

Brain zaps are weird, not everybody gets them and not everybody to the same extent. I'm myself prone to but only with seriously serotonergic substances, not meth, but I've also been using only low dosages. With higher ones I guess it's not too uncommon for sensitive people. Unfortunately for those, brain zaps are kind of 'normal' when using serotonergics. Possibly having taken an SSRI antidepressant in the past for longer than a few weeks might potentiate the risk.

As long as it's not too much of them, 5-htp certainly helps. For stronger cases there's kanna (sceletum tortiosum). Also the dangers of combining 5-htp with serotonergics are overblown imo, the 5-htp isn't active on its own but only aids in filling up the storage vesicles if I'm not mistaken, so there's little chance for anything like serotonin syndrome. Also for most (note: not all, there seem to be exceptions but odds are that they took something else on top but didn't reveal that) people serotonin syndrome requires MAO inhibition.

you know your stuff

 

[Robi]

I accidentally overamped trying to combat a bad insomnia episode and was running on 4hrs this week. Had like 4hrs of really intense then leveled. I was still electric earlier today but it has subsided. Should I be concerned or speak to a doctor?

i would but my new doc would prescribe a boat load of medicine w/o checking anything the old doc would just say, ill get back to you, and never call, or make appt 3 months out, i hope you feel better some day soon i cant sleep hardly at all so my heart goes out to you, and how i fear brain zaps, so curious of them, main reason i stopped SSRI`s and SARI`s, having worse anxiety , an creepy crawling sensations, but yah might want to talk to doc, i often push natural healing, look into what helps with brain zaps, it all makes sense to me, oh crap tramadol can create brain zaps! my sincere want of you to feel much better

 

[Robi]

i always get tramadol an trazadone mixed up

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Brain zaps are from too many drugs... taking more drugs is not going to help. 5-HTP efficacy is questionable in any application. Meth brain zaps are not going to be cured by a serotonin precursor...

We've also had people here claim 5-HTP gave them MDMA like highs...

If meth is giving you brain zaps that means you need to take less meth, not add in some other drug of questionable internet anecdotal efficacy

 

[Snafu in the Void]

i always get tramadol an trazadone mixed up

not me

one is cool the other is a shit fucking drug

 

[Robi]

not me

one is cool the other is a shit fucking drug

both shit to me, but the tram helped me some with opioid wd, DING DING DING yay youre very right to me!!*hands you a poodle plushie for a prize. me likey u

 

[water bear]

I accidentally overamped trying to combat a bad insomnia episode and was running on 4hrs this week. Had like 4hrs of really intense then leveled. I was still electric earlier today but it has subsided. Should I be concerned or speak to a doctor?

What symptoms were you experiencing and how are you feeling, now? If your symptoms have subsided, there's probably not cause for alarm, but you should always discuss any concerns you have about your health with a physician with whom you can be honest about your drug use. Eat when you can and stay hydrated. Remember that going on too little sleep can increase your overamping risk. Hope you're feeling better, now!

 

[Pickledlemons]

I am not convinced 5htp does anything... so idk about that. Are you sure you don't take any benzos or alcohol at all? Those are the drugs I would more expect to cause brain zaps. Or ssris. Maybe its the mdma? I've never heard of meth doing anything like that but everyone is different.

 

[Vagabond696]

What symptoms were you experiencing and how are you feeling, now? If your symptoms have subsided, there's probably not cause for alarm, but you should always discuss any concerns you have about your health with a physician with whom you can be honest about your drug use. Eat when you can and stay hydrated. Remember that going on too little sleep can increase your overamping risk. Hope you're feeling better, now!

Brain zaps and twitches in my legs. Severe hypervigilence. I was awake from 01:10 Tuesday morning until 21:00 Wednesday night, even after consuming an impressive sleep cocktail.

Symptoms eased yesterday afternoon and are now mostly gone.
I'm not concerned about the doctor side of things, I tell mine everything, even the things she doesn't want to know.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm not taking any meds or other drugs regularly, but do, on occasion, take small amounts of MDMA, prescription opioids or buprenorphine if they crop up. Nothing aside from meth in several weeks, though.

I've used meth on & off for over 15 years, but this has only been happening the past year or so. The only time I can remember experiencing them before was when I was prescribed Effexor as a teenager. I think you're right about taking a break being the best move here, though, and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Strange you mention Effexor.

Brain zaps are a common discountinuation symptom of Effexor. I don't know if they're permanent or how long they're suppose to last, but I've had myoclonic jerks for 5 years now after coming off of Effexor. The myoclonic jerks could be unrelated, but they do some times feel like I'm being electrocuted, which makes my body jerk involuntarily. I've had catscans for tumors and all that and my brain and everything is normal.

So it's worth looking into the long term effects of Effexor use & how long people report having brain zaps/body jerks.

I think the zaps are serotonin related. Mine seem to get better when I use meth or certain other dopamine/serotonin drugs. But they seem to get worse when I use other drugs too which affect the same thing.

My body jerks/zaps are not always controlled by benzos or antiseizure meds either.


I would recommend against using 5-htp with meth, because of the risk of serotonin syndrome. Although it's highly rare & unlikely, but at best you might feel uncomfortable or make your zaps worse with this combo. Meth does stimulate serotonin release as well as dopamine release. You might be having zaps due to damage done at your serotonin receptors or from having too much/too little serotonin in the brain. It might not hurt to supplement with 5-htp when you're not using meth. I have mixed serotonergic drugs myself & been fine, but everyone is different.

Strangely, meth use to relieve me of my myoclonic jerks.
But..
Drugs like DXM & tramadol (serotonin reuptake inhibitors) use to make me feel like I was gonna seize out some times and make me really shaky & jerky.

I truly think Effexor does some kind of long term damage or some thing to people's brains. Possibly all SSR's/SNRI's, I dunno.
Or maybe it's just me, cause once I mixed high dose DXM while on Effexor and instead of getting a "trip", I got convulsions in my legs, which I swiftly took a clonazepam for and laid on the floor (couldn't walk) until the convulsions stopped. Never mixed the two again, but it was after this episode that I came off of Effexor and noticed seizure-like symptoms and involuntary jerking of my limbs and whole body (feels like I'm being electrocuted). Not sure if this is the same as the "brain zaps" people report after stopping antidepressants, but it's similar I guess.

I'm still without any answers as to my zaps & jerks but hopefully yours ease up with time. I'd definitely recommend abstinence from drugs if they make the zaps worse, at least for now.

You could also have an underlining seizure disorder or something to that effect and taking high enough doses of meth will lower your seizure threshold I imagine.