Pure fentanyl dilution question

[michaeljw13]

Hey guys, let me start out my saying I'm a long time lurker but first time poster. I have read the rules and think I'm ok with this post however if I do end up violating any rules or social mores please let me know and I will gladly fix my post!

I had possession of relatively pure fentanyl hcl powder, estimated at 95%+ based on effects. I know most people advise a liquid titration and dosing with a nasal spray bottle as a safe way to dose and up until this point, this is what I have been doing. I am well aware of the risks associated with handling this drug in its pure state and always take proper precautions both with the secure storage of the chemical itself, as well as proper protective clothing in the form of a gown, respirator, and nitrite gloves. I am using a scale that has a reasonably high level of precision (down to the thousands of a gram) and reasonable level of accuracy (plus or minus 3 mg).

I have a bit of a snorting fixation and would prefer to mix this fentanyl into a diluted powder. I am well aware of the issue of hot spots that a standard powder with powder mixture will create and the accompanying danger of these hot spots. However, I have been thinking of a way to go about mixing it into a diluted powder and think I may have come up with something that will work for me. I'm hoping that someone knowledgeable about this will come along and check my method for any errors I may not be considering or taking into account.

My plan is to take 100mg of fentanyl and dissolve it into a suitable amount of dH2O along with 10 grams of USP lactose powder. I'm going to place the beaker containing this solution onto a hot plate with a magnetic stirrer and heat the solution until I begin to have my lactose and fentanyl precipitating out. At this point I will transfer the contents of the reaction vessel into an oven safe container and heat at 170F until all the water has evaporated out. Once this has been completed I will scrape the mixture of powder out of the vessel and grind with a mortar and pestle than run it through a sieve until it is an even powdered consistency.

Any thoughts or concerns with my proposed method? Thank you guys in advance for your help and input and taking the time to respond!

 

[tacodude]

Why not use 100% ETOH (ethanol) so you can dry out the solution with little no heat. Then figure out a method to dry out the solution while it is constantly vibrating to make sure no separation occurs as it evaporates?

 

[michaeljw13]

I considered that but I thought that lactose was only miscibility soluble in ETOH due to ETOH being a non-polar solvent? I can't find any good information on solubility constants for lactose in ethanol though so I could be mistaken. It would be fantastic if a more volatile solvent could be used to aid in speed of evaporation though, that was one of my main concerns.

 

[tacodude]

Double posting due to editing being a pain in the ass on a phone.

Why not use mannitol or innitol as your filler as most vendors use?

I also hope you're seriously planning on using this only yourself and not to share it with other. You do not want anther persons death on you for sharing fentanyl whether or not it's mixed right.

 

[d1nach]

This is unbelievably dangerous. Fentanyl has a solubility over ten fold lower or higher depending of salt or free form both wont crystalize at the same time as lactose. I seriously think your likely to die trying this.

 

[michaeljw13]

I probably should have thrown this into my original post in the beginning, but I won't ever attempt this if I'm not 100% confident in this being evenly mixed. I don't have a death wish and this is why I'm hoping to get input from folks more knowledgeable than myself on if this is even possible, and if it will be worth the amount of effort I'm willing to invest in it.

Yes, I'm seriously planning on using this personally, I'm a lone opiate addict and don't have anyone to share with, which of course I wouldn't. I only trust myself with knowing my tolerance and ability to administer an accurate dose respective to my tolerence. I know very well why people get jumpy whenever fentanyl and it's analogs come up in conversation. It is so difficult to discuss while keeping a harm-reduction mentality at the forefront.

I'm not opposed to using mannitol or inositol (what you meant, right?) as the dispersent. Would I see any benefit to this over lactose?

d1nach, Thank you very much for your input, this is along the lines of what I'm looking for! This did cross my mind but I was thinking that because even though fent is indeed less soluble by an order of magnitude, it is still so soluble that the overall effect of it precipitating out first wouldn't make a huge difference. It has a solubility constant of 1 gram per 40 mL. This means that once the volume of water was decreased to 4mL it would start to precipitate out and by that point, the lactose would already be precipitating since I would have added 10 grams. Granted it should start precipitating out at a bit higher volume than 4mL due to the combined presence of the lactose affecting how much it can saturate the water. Any thoughts on this or am I way off base?

<snip>

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Od -> n&pd

 

[Solipsis]

How do you plan on being 100% confident about mixing it right? The whole problem is that it can be quite difficult to achieve because at no point can there be one precipitate crashing out and caking while the other solute comes out later. Recrystallization of a mixture is not a magic or guaranteed solution.

It's a sensitive topic and like with blotter laying people are secretive half the time because the harm reduction and harm are so controversial and both involved.

I did this with NBOMe compounds (diluting powder) for personal use in the basic flawed dissolving and evapping manner followed by mechanical mixing, with mannitol, but I made such small batches that I could afford ridiculous amounts of hot-spotting and still be totally fine.

Not sure how sonication can be used reliably, also I wonder if something like HPBCD would make a difference by effectively chaperoning a drug so that on the outside the complexed molecule behaves similar to the non-complexed hpbcd, breaking the tendency of clumping together or other kinds of separation you don't want.

I'd highly advise that you say no to the snorting fetish this time and be satisfied with the fent and not push your luck. Try getting those kicks from something that is less likely to kill you.

 

[d1nach]

If you add lactose to a solution of fentanyl the fentanyl could start crystalizing out. look up salting out. When you add a excess pf solutes you alter the solubility of poorly soluble solutes. This is the concept behind washing poorly soluble alkiloids in satueated sodium chloride. A example of this is easy to show take rable sugar one cup and half a cup of water at boilimg mix till clear and all the sugar disolves then try to displve when cooled one half a table spoon of baking soda. The solubilities her are 2 g per ml and 70 mg per ml yet almost no baking powder will disolve and all the sugar will.

 

[d1nach]

Crystallization also isnt just a function of solubility. It also depends on temperature and nucleic sites. If you heat it on say a pan its very likely fentanyl will first crystalize onto the pan while the lactose continues to move around in a supersaturated solition the fentanyl will then be able to bind to both the pan and onto the fentanyl and as you remove water off fentanyl will alsp collect on the sides lastly the lactose is very likely to attach to itself you recrystalize a solution the same chemical tends to clump together forming big blocks. For example when I would extract caffeine from coffee solubility 1.6/100 ml at 20 c it would form layers of poorly soluble at the bottom caffeine in the middle and sugars at the top. It did not form anything close to a even mixture

 

[serotonin2A]

IMHO, It makes no sense to do this when you can get the same results with a nasal spray. There is no way that you can prepare a homogeneous powder with the equipment that you have at your disposal.

If you absolutely have to snort powdered fentanyl then what you should do is weigh out single doses of fentanyl on a calibrated precision microgram scale, and then mix that with an inert bulking agent immediately prior to use. That way you don't have to worry about evenly mixing the powders.

 

[d1nach]

Fetanyl just killed my uncles nephew. I really am concern about the safety of what you suggest.