Psychedelic migraine treatment

[Somapolis]

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/

Check that link out brother....And welcome to Bluelight, I hope you enjoy your stay...

Thank you. I'm sure I will.

When I first got diagnosed with cluster headache I had no clue that psychedelics, or shall I say exclusively tryptamins, would be able to help me. But when I read about clusterbusters it all made sense. I mean actually it was treatment for migraine mr Hofmann was looking for to start with (happy birthday btw Albert!)

At the time I first got an attack I've only tested LSD and psilocybin shrooms a couple of times. Now the list is a bit longer and includes a variety of "exotic" tryptamines but also a lot of phenetylamines particulary in the 2C- family. It would be an understatement to say that may interest in psychedelics grew at this time in my life.

I know close to nothing about chemistry so I'm very thankful if someones who does is able to explain for me in a simple matter the of function of the triptans and the similarities with tryptamines.

I know that my own medicine, Sumatriptan is a an agonist for the 5-HT1D and 5-HT1B receptors and that most of the pschedelics, trypts anyway?, are 5-HT2a agonist.

The intense pain that you experience from CH is caused by the dilation of blood vessels which creates pressure on the trigeminal nerve. When it comes to acute treatment I therefore think that Sumatriptan IM is excellent because you'll need a really quick painrelief. But what I'm trying to find out theoretically is if an IM injection of lets say 4-AcO-DMT would have the same effect. The specific receptor subtype Sumatriptan activates is present in the cranial and basilar arteries. Activation of these receptors causes vasoconstriction of those dilated arteries. Sumatriptan is also shown to decrease the activity of the trigeminal nerve, which probably accounts for Sumatriptan's efficacy in treating cluster headaches. Is the decrease of activity in the trigerminal nerve a consequence of the vasoconstriction?

I havent had the chance to use Methysergide but of what I can understand it works both as a agonists and a antagonist on the serotonine receptors? Could anybody explain why that is supposed to work prophylactic?

I've personally got the feeling that my periods with CH starts when the seasons changes, heard this disease is quite uncommon near the equator, and is directly linked to the production of melatonine and the circadian rythm.

I'm also very interested to hear more about nanobrains experiences of phenteylamines and tryptamines with CH. Could you please fill in some details about all that and tell a bit more about your condition today.

 

[VerbalTruist]

F&B you really nailed the pain, I've never had an amputation, but I wouldn't wish them on anyone. Its a pain that really cannot be treated unless you bomb yourself with enough benzos to sleep through the ordeal.

I can give a first hand account of this. I used to suffer from cluster headaches constantly...

During my middle and high school years I suffered horrible disabling headaches which made my life totally unbearable. I would frequently have to leave classes and eventually I began to consume prescription pain killers in order to manage the pain. It got so bad that I became addicted to pain killers, but thats a very different story.

My headaches lasted all through high school and it wasn't until my freshman year of college that my psychiatrist, after learning that I was basically desperate, suggested that Psilocybin containing mushrooms might help.

At that time I was just discovering DMT and 5-meo-DMT. I hadn't tried mushrooms and I wasn't totally keen on the idea. I passed on the idea initially and with each session we would discuss it, he'd have more literature and I slowly warmed up to the idea.

Eventually I decided that I was good for the experience and things were set in motion to make it happen.

After the dose, which was tiny, I was a completely changed person. My headaches disappeared literally over night. I was able to go out and do things which I would haven't done because I would have been sure to experience a crippling headache. My life changed for the better.

The treatment lasts for three to six months. It doesn't matter if you take more mushrooms. I'm not really sure why it lasts longer sometimes rather than others, but it does.

A dose which is effective is one-half to two grams of dried P. Cubensis mushrooms. One-half gram does fine and I usually just take a valium and sleep through the 'trip' if you can even call it as such.

Treatment with the mushrooms is preventative like fizzacyst said. You don't take them when you have a headache you take them when you don't have a headache and for whatever reason they just don't come back. Its really a godsend.

 

[Delsyd]

i work in a pharmacy and to my surprise yesterday we recieved a product called: Ergotamine Tartrate W/Caffeine

ofcourse this sparked my interest seeing as ergotamine tartrate is a precursor to LSD.
I asked the pharmacist what its used for and not surprisingly it is for headaches.

 

[fizzacyst]

Yeah, its one of the earlier treatments. I'm not sure how often its given these days, since some doofus might space out and take more than they were supposed to and end up having to get a leg amputated.

 

[psood0nym]

The people at cluster busters predominantly use psilocybe mushrooms and Hawiian baby woodrose seeds to abort their headaches and stop there cycles--most likely because that's what's most easily accessible. Anecdotal reports suggest the HBWR seeds are not as effective as mushrooms. For some, holding ground up mushrooms under their tongues is the fastest way to abort their headaches without tripping too hard. Halpern's limited survey of patient records suggests that LSD may be the most effective of the psychedelic treatments, and he's working on a clinical follow-up to test it. Unfortunately legal issues involved in studying LSD mean it will be years before we know anything more definitive. I've also heard there are plans to test the non-hallucinogenic bromo-LSD for headache treatment in Switzerland. While non-psychedelic treatments can abort a cluster headache, to my knowledge only psychedelic treatments are suggested to stop the recurrence of the cluster cycle, and the popular and expensive oral triptans have been shown to increase the frequency of headaches in some and had an effectiveness comparable to regular old ibuprophen in one clinical trial. Somapolis' suggestion to use IM 4-AcO-DMT sounds really promising as a quick abortive treatment.

 

[crOOk]

oh nice, replies to my old thread. thanks a lot. my friend will really appreciate this. hes never tried it cause hes scared of tripping with one of those NASTY headaches. thanks to all you guys!!!

 

[Bolus]

The people at cluster busters predominantly use psilocybe mushrooms and Hawiian baby woodrose seeds to abort their headaches and stop there cycles--most likely because that's what's most easily accessible. Anecdotal reports suggest the HBWR seeds are not as effective as mushrooms.

I think a lot of the people under dose with either HBWR and R. corymbosa giving rise to some of the lower efficacy versus psilocybin and LSD.

Mushrooms are more reliable as a dosing medium, whereas I assume the cluster busters use an array of techniques to consume seeds (extraction). Considering the the higher variability due to this along with the differences in seed variety and potency, the lower efficacy of LSA isn't too surprising.

 

[Somapolis]

First of all I must say that I'm a bit surprised that no one else on BL suffers from CH and use tryptamines to treat the pain but anyway I have to ask about this again.

Since I last asked about this I've continued to, successfully, use LSD and 4-AcO-DMT profylactic but I'm still eager to find out more about the potential of other tryptamines, or even phenetylamines (or maybe why the latter category could be excluded?). So I would be very grateful if someone with a little chemistry knowledge, or even better personal exeperience, could give me a hint.

 

[Somapolis]

I'm still eager to find out more about the potential of other tryptamines, or even phenetylamines (or maybe why the latter category could be excluded?)

Now, a couple of years later, I've had great success with acute treating of CH-attacks with 4-HO-MET, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-MiPT and 5-MeO-MiPT insufflated. Perhaps I'll try with some AMT when the next episode comes on. I also successfully used LSD, LSA and shrooms prophylactically. But still I havent't tried to treat it with phens, and never read about anyone else that have done so either. Is there any obvious reason that it would not work out as good with lets say 2C-C or 2C-D? Is there some chemical significances of tryptamines that make them more suited for the purpose I'm after?

 

[skinwalker]

Its been about a year and a half since I started my treatment of dmt and psilocybin for my lifelong battle with migraines. Ive been a sufferer for over twenty years and since the treatment I have only had two headaches. One yesterday and another over a month ago (both very mild compared to before treatment)....its been a very stressful time of my life lately, no time to trip and my set hasn't been up to par.
I do have plenty of materials though as I am in dire need to unwind. Once tried dmt to knock out a migraine as I took it once the pain was kicking in....it didn't work as the blood vessels were already "bulged" causing the pain, maybe when the numbness and aura are still present but before the pain has kicked in.....before this last bout it was at least a year since having a headache with at least a monthly regimen of psyches....I know there is something to this at least with releasing alot of my emotional baggage as to why this seems to work

 

[PotatoMan]

my god. it's absolutely amazing to read this. i was just about to start a new thread but the fact that people have been using psychedelics to treat migraines left me no reason to do so.

i once saw the segment on drugs inc where an old man suffering from cluster headaches used mushrooms to treat it.

years went by and i began experiencing headaches myself. to describe them i'd say they are sharp pains usually on one side at a time (mostly left) to the back of my skull. as if i were being stabbed briefly multiple times a day.

i'm a bit of a hypochondriac so i figured it was probably just one of those many causes for headaches such as a simple migraine. i'd also get the pain in back of my eyes etc.. but nothing as severe as a cluster headache. the way it's been illustrated to me is as if it were a literal crave-a-bullet-to-the-head feeling and for me it was never that bad.

recently i think i've developed sinus problems along with allergies (my mother has bad sinus) and would get these weird headaches around the same time daily for a couple days. i don't get them anymore and funnily enough tried 1p-LSD very recently, but i must say that day i hadn't experienced the usual headache.

anyway, to my point now, when i used to experience those sharp headaches i'd always wonder if it were something serious (naturally) but then i tried mushrooms. my intent was never to attempt to treat my headaches, i simply wanted to trip. the headaches had become such a part of my life that i never even thought about it.

as time went by i one day found myself thinking, 'damn, i have not experienced those headaches in a while'. then i remembered the drugs inc w the guy and the mushrooms. so i thought to myself, 'but i don't have cluster headaches?' so then the question is, what are they? probably migraines i'll put my money on so seeing this thread title was a relief.

of course i'm not here stating that they've cured me, but certainly treated them for longer than any fucking tylenol could ever dream of doing :D.

they come back every now & then when i haven't tripped for a while so i think i've found a remedy

 

[Fresnel]

Surprised to find nothing in this thread on ketamine, which John Lilly used to treat his migraines. OK, not a psychedelic perhaps, but then nor is oxygen.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2015 Nov-Dec;47(5):372-81. doi: 10.1080/02791072.2015.1107664. Epub 2015 Nov 23.

Indoleamine Hallucinogens in Cluster Headache: Results of the Clusterbusters Medication Use Survey.
Schindler EA1, Gottschalk CH1, pWeil MJ2, Shapiro RE3, Wright DA2, Sewell RA4.

Author information
1a Department of Neurology , Yale University School of Medicine , New Haven , CT .
2b Clusterbusters, Inc , Lombard , IL .
3c Department of Neurology , University of Vermont College of Medicine , Burlington , VT , USA .
4d Department of Psychiatry , West Haven Veterans Affairs Hospital , West Haven, CT, and Department of Neurology Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven , CT .

Abstract

Cluster headache is one of the most debilitating pain syndromes. A significant number of patients are refractory to conventional therapies. The Clusterbusters.org medication use survey sought to characterize the effects of both conventional and alternative medications used in cluster headache. Participants were recruited from cluster headache websites and headache clinics. The final analysis included responses from 496 participants. The survey was modeled after previously published surveys and was available online. Most responses were chosen from a list, though others were free-texted. Conventional abortive and preventative medications were identified and their efficacies agreed with those previously published. The indoleamine hallucinogens, psilocybin, lysergic acid diethylamide, and lysergic acid amide, were comparable to or more efficacious than most conventional medications. These agents were also perceived to shorten/abort a cluster period and bring chronic cluster headache into remission more so than conventional medications. Furthermore, infrequent and non-hallucinogenic doses were reported to be efficacious. Findings provide additional evidence that several indoleamine hallucinogens are rated as effective in treating cluster headache. These data reinforce the need for further investigation of the effects of these and related compounds in cluster headache under experimentally controlled settings.

KEYWORDS:
Internet survey; cluster headache; hallucinogens; lysergic acid amide; lysergic acid diethylamide; psilocybin

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26595349/

 

[Shamandrums]

Suffering from chronic severe muscular tension/neck injury headaches since 13, I am one more that can attest to the life wasting effect of suffering for these conditions & the level of pain causing states of near death wish from the puking & debilitating disruption. I am increasingly happy to see psilocybin is mentioned over & over, as being helpful in treatment as I research & prepare to proceed with intensive psychedelic therapy for PTSD & mid life spiritual drain trap clean out with psychedelics. Micro dosing also sounds hopeful.

It is not exaggeration when people speak of ''surprise'' amputations etc as I've nearly cut out 1/2 my brain in the delirium/pain of the moment. I'll be posting my journal results on Bluelight. I retain a supply of prescribed opiates, yet they're often simply not effective, if I can not puke them up (better at prevention b4 pain gets rolling), unless I go in for IV treatment, which has become a real hassle, as I used to obtain these from the clinic of my birth. But they're now unable to provide this service...

Now it's a trip to the hospital & as a legit chronic pain sufferer, it's not just the noise, trip, waiting, lights but dealing with a grilling from ER Dr's at a time when I simply do not wish to think let alone TALK, & answer to rude profiling. (This despite I carry a note from my Dr listing my meds & that I was routinely given shots before they could no longer provide the service there). Thanks to all whom have shared their experiences & feelings & those who've provided info that safer, non-addictive meds may help cure, not just treat pain! My worst fear was getting loaded, then having a HA happen! %)

 

[Shamandrums]

my god. it's absolutely amazing to read this. i was just about to start a new thread but the fact that people have been using psychedelics to treat migraines left me no reason to do so.

i once saw the segment on drugs inc where an old man suffering from cluster headaches used mushrooms to treat it.

years went by and i began experiencing headaches myself. to describe them i'd say they are sharp pains usually on one side at a time (mostly left) to the back of my skull. as if i were being stabbed briefly multiple times a day.

i'm a bit of a hypochondriac so i figured it was probably just one of those many causes for headaches such as a simple migraine. i'd also get the pain in back of my eyes etc.. but nothing as severe as a cluster headache. the way it's been illustrated to me is as if it were a literal crave-a-bullet-to-the-head feeling and for me it was never that bad.

recently i think i've developed sinus problems along with allergies (my mother has bad sinus) and would get these weird headaches around the same time daily for a couple days. i don't get them anymore and funnily enough tried 1p-LSD very recently, but i must say that day i hadn't experienced the usual headache.

anyway, to my point now, when i used to experience those sharp headaches i'd always wonder if it were something serious (naturally) but then i tried mushrooms. my intent was never to attempt to treat my headaches, i simply wanted to trip. the headaches had become such a part of my life that i never even thought about it.

as time went by i one day found myself thinking, 'damn, i have not experienced those headaches in a while'. then i remembered the drugs inc w the guy and the mushrooms. so i thought to myself, 'but i don't have cluster headaches?' so then the question is, what are they? probably migraines i'll put my money on so seeing this thread title was a relief.

of course i'm not here stating that they've cured me, but certainly treated them for longer than any fucking tylenol could ever dream of doing :D.

they come back every now & then when i haven't tripped for a while so i think i've found a remedy

Indeed,
I was doing the same, & when I saw more of this excellent data, I was simply thrilled. This as I had come to a point in my life where I was looking at psychedelic therapy for PTSD & mid-life spiritual clean up. This is great all round as my big fear was getting loaded then getting a wik'd H.A. Anyways, thanks for posting... Good luck, & peace! %)

 

[Shamandrums]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26595349/

Thanks for posting the abstract data & links...Excellent! Muchos appreciated! %)

 

[bunnyhentman]

I get debilitating migraines 2x/month and have had major sinus problems in the past (after several sinus surgeries I'm much better now). I use prescription Maxalt for migraines, although it has some unpleasant side effects for me and seems to have decreased in effectiveness over time so I'm about to go back to the neurologist to talk about other options.

I also get extreme motion sickness and have since I was a child. Sometimes even motion in a video or scrolling text on the screen can trigger a bout of motion sickness.

Sometimes phenethylamines trigger terrible migraines for me. Especially 2c-series. I wonder if that happens for other RC-enthusiast migraine sufferers. MDMA has given me migraines as well. Because of this, I usually avoid them. 2c-i can be the worst and 2c-b is the least prone to triggering a migraine for me. I also get very sick/nauseous from these chemicals and nearly always have to throw up several times when I take them.

Tripping with a migraine is brutal, not recreational at all. One of my biggest migraine triggers is blood pressure spikes (normally I have low BP) so I wonder if that is related to my reactions to these chemicals.

I have not been able to correlate taking LSD with preventing migraines over time, but I definitely have never had a migraine during or within 48 hours of taking LSD or psilocybin.

By far the most effective treatment I have found for my migraines once they have already started is cannabis. Obviously there are the usual "side effects" -- getting high -- but it's much more pleasant and cuts off the pain faster than any of the prescriptions I have tried. I want to get a cbd oil pen for work so I can actually stay and finish my job when I get hit with a migraine. Currently when I am able to identify I am pre-migraine I work from home and if I smoke cannabis I can continue to work through the headache. I really wish I lived in a state with accessible medical marijuana policies!

Edit to add I'm really curious about people who have tried LSD microdosing as a migraine prevention treatment..

 

[Bluuberry]

I suffered debilitating migraines, -every day- for about 3 years. All day, then I would wake up with it again. Sometimes it was worse than others. Once I had the distinct sensation of a steel spike being driven thru my left eye, thru my left lobe, and out the back of my skull. This lasted a MONTH, luckily I didn't get fired and had a lovely girl to cook and bring me water, because I physically couldn't move for that whole month except for to stagger to the bathroom.

Besides that, those 3 years were just pure misery for me, it was basically impossible to enjoy anything with an active migraine. I tried microdosing shrooms, I tried full doses of L and mushrooms, every herb under the sun that MIGHT help, acupuncture, physical therapy.. Nothing seemed to help and I often wanted to end my life because I couldn't enjoy anything.

Then one day.. I smoked a big bowl of DMT. First time ever taking DMT, I just dump an unspecified amount onto a piece of choreboy and take a massive rip and hold on for dear life. After living inside of a multidimensional faceted jewel space ship for a long time, I came out of the trip panting and rolled into the next room. As I lay there getting my bearings I notice my headache is not present. Cool side effect, I thought. Next day I wake up, and no headache... For the first time in years, literally. It went on like this until weeks later I came to grips with the fact that I wasn't waking up with migraines for no reason anymore.

Something happened in my brain that day. I have no scientific explanation. The migraines I was experiencing happened no matter what, certain things made them worse but they were always present. After that DMT trip, I ONLY experience migraines for specific reasons - got too hot, dehydrated, too windy, didn't eat enough that day, etc. Headaches still happen when my body is trying to tell me something but the pointless (cluster?) migraines are gone for good. I don't even need to smoke DMT frequently. It's been months since I took a rip even though I can anytime I want to.

I think DMT is really looked over at a medicine for headaches and migraines, possibly because of its relative rarity compared to L and shrooms. However I believe that it may in fact be the most effective medicine for certain people. It's incredible because even a single dose, or perhaps a couple, can be a life long benefit to those who are suffering.

Let's be clear, I'm talking about taking a breakthrough hit. I've tried to remedy hangover headaches with light puffs of DMT and it doesn't work like this. It seems to be working on something specific in the brain. Microdoses relieve head pressure from anecdotal evidence of my friends and I, but it would seem that a full breakthrough hit is needed for a cure. I also think that DMT will not cure headaches or migraines from stressing the body out, but instead works on the sort of migraine that appears to have no root cause. If you have a headache because you didnt get enough sleep or drank too much, it wont help. If you live a healthy life and still experience crippling migraines with no apparent cause, perhaps the cause is literally in your brain, and maybe DMT has a healing or rejuvenating effect on those pathways. I don't know much about this area of study, I don't think anyone knows much about the causes of migraines (besides the obvious like drug use or dehydration), but it's just a hypothesis. Amitryptaline is a pharm drug used to treat migraine; it has a lot of side effects and is supposed to be taken daily. So I would never take it, but the point is that there is definitely scientific, clinical evidence proving that tryptamines can be used to remedy migraine.

I'm not the only one, there are several other individuals who have had varying degrees of success with vaped DMT curing migraines that seemed incurable. This information needs to be more widely available, I suffered for YEARS, way worse than you can understand if you've never had daily migraines. If I had known DMT might cure it, I would have done anything to find it and administer the medicine. For me it worked in incredible ways where as LSD and mushrooms did literally nothing to affect my migraines on the long term.