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Psychadelics curing Long Term Comedown from Ecstasy?

I still don't think that is really sufficient evidence, like said above most MD studies involve stupidly high doses repeatedly injected. if there was CONCRETE evidence of MDMA induced lesions, a lot more people would be taking about it. Hell, Olneys lesions are not even that well known about and I've never even done dissociatives but I've heard of those before this. I think with sufficient antioxidants, a good diet, a little 5-htp replenishment and a 1-3 month break each time, MDMA will cause little worry. The neurotoxicity of it is so debated that it's obvious now that with precaution it's really not that bad, or it would have a much worse reputation than it does (look at meth for example)
 
terarc said:
I still don't think that is really sufficient evidence, like said above most MD studies involve stupidly high doses repeatedly injected. if there was CONCRETE evidence of MDMA induced lesions, a lot more people would be taking about it. Hell, Olneys lesions are not even that well known about and I've never even done dissociatives but I've heard of those before this. I think with sufficient antioxidants, a good diet, a little 5-htp replenishment and a 1-3 month break each time, MDMA will cause little worry. The neurotoxicity of it is so debated that it's obvious now that with precaution it's really not that bad, or it would have a much worse reputation than it does (look at meth for example)
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Try talking your drug dealer out of killing himself on the phone after the summer when he did MDMA every day and fucked up his serotonin levels.
Lesions are questionable, neurotoxicity is not.
I've seen tested MDMA bring people to severe chronic depression when they don't control their use.
MDMA is neurotoxic like meth if you use it everyday (like a lot of people do with meth...) i've seen it happen in people with no history or signs of psychiatric illness.
Coincidentally, they get super depressed and often attempt suicide right after a few weeks of frequent MDMA use.
 
Yeah obviously that's gonna happen with every day use, I did say it's not gonna cause problems WHEN responsible use (1-3 month breaks) are employed. Anyone using MDMA every day has a serious substance abuse disorder, that's way past the realm of recreational use, it doesn't take a genius to realise that it should never be used like that.
 
terarc said:
Yeah obviously that's gonna happen with every day use, I did say it's not gonna cause problems WHEN responsible use (1-3 month breaks) are employed. Anyone using MDMA every day has a serious substance abuse disorder, that's way past the realm of recreational use, it doesn't take a genius to realise that it should never be used like that.
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Yeah but that proves that MDMA has neurotoxic properties... i.e my point.
 
I never denied that MDMA had neurotoxic properties, I was simply saying with sensible use they are minimal or actually may even not occur, so MDMA neurotoxicity might not be the best place to look to explain OPs problems. More likely that maybe it has triggered some kind of depressive state or dp/dr or something like that rather than 'brain damage' that he is worrying about, or seeing as it was untested maybe it was not MDMA he consumed
 
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terarc said:
I never denied that MDMA had neurotoxic properties, I was simply saying with sensible use they are minimal or actually may even not occur, so MDMA neurotoxicity might not be the best place to look to explain OPs problems. More likely that maybe it has triggered some kind of depressive state or dp/dr or something like that rather than 'brain damage' that he is worrying about.
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I was being sarcastic, i don't believe the MDMA is to blame for his "7-month comedown"
if he had dropped it regularly tho i would point to the MDMA.
 
Trying2Iso said:
Yeah but that proves that MDMA has neurotoxic properties... i.e my point.
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Depression is not proof for neurotoxicity at all, how did you reach that conclusion? I agree with the rest you state though, the consequences of serious abuse can be severe, I just have my doubts it's caused by neurological damage
 
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BlueBull said:
Depression is not proof for neurotoxicity at all, how did you reach that conclusion? I agree with the rest you state though, the consequences of serious abuse can be severe, I just have my doubts it's caused by neurological damage
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Chronic MDMA abuse can produce marked neurotoxicity in serotonergic axon terminals:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320513004013
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-012-0815-5
there's some good reading on neurotoxicity of MDMA in there.
 
I know about the research out there, I think I read just about every study available, but they all have serious flaws in the methodology. So far not a single study was done where they controlled all the relevant variables (poly-drug using subject groups, self-administered doses, untested product, administering meth instead of MDMA "by accident", injecting ludicrously high doses of MDMA instead of orally administering normal recreational doses, injecting multiple times a day over multiple days, equating decreased HT density to neurotoxic damage,...) so I think the research out there is very far from convincing. In any case, my question was how you reached the conclusion that depression following MDMA (ab)use undoubtedly equates to neurological damage?

To the OP, to not get too lost in yet another off-topic neurotoxicity debate: mushrooms have been successfully used to help treat various afflictions, from depression to cluster headaches. However I don't think there is any way to tell you if it will have a positive impact or a negative one. I don't see much harm in trying out a small dose to see how it plays out but I would be careful not to take too much. Any psychedelic at any dose has the potential to mess with your psychological state but the risk I think is much greater once you venture into high dose territory. So if you do decide to try it be careful of your dose. Start low and titrate upwards if you feel like you can take some more
 
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BlueBull said:
I know about the research out there, I think I read just about every study available, but they all have serious flaws in the methodology. So far not a single study was done where they controlled all the relevant variables (poly-drug using subject groups, self-administered doses, untested product, administering meth instead of MDMA "by accident", injecting ludicrously high doses of MDMA instead of orally administering normal recreational doses, injecting multiple times a day over multiple days, equating decreased HT density to neurotoxic damage,...) so I think the research out there is very far from convincing. In any case, my question was how you reached the conclusion that depression following MDMA (ab)use undoubtedly equates to neurological damage?
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these studies were controlled and are accepted by the scientific community. Please, give examples of flaws in the 2 studies i linked i'd love to see them!
you say these things, now show me where you found them, in the 2 links i read.
Also, my drug dealer had no history of psychiatric illness or suicidal ideation, neither did his sister. One summer he decides to do MDMA almost every single night. Becomes extremely depressed, and suicidal. Take the research, and the "coincidence" of him doing starting daily MDMA right before he has a breakdown... yeah.
 
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