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Propylene glycol solutions crashing when shaken?

MagickalKat777

MagickalKat777

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Feb 4, 2004
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Okay so I have made some 4mg/mL solutions of nothing but propylene glycol and flubromazepam which go crystal clear... I was told that you need to shake them each time because it's more of a suspension than a solution but when I shake them, the flubromazepam actually comes out of solution for a few seconds before going back in. Anyone have any idea what's going on here? Are these actually solutions or suspensions because from what I understand of a suspension is that you'll always see the particles if you examine the liquid up close (such is the case with diazepam intensol in fact, it has a hard time holding 5mg/mL and does in fact crash and needs to be shaken) but I don't see anything until I shake it, then it's like the powder comes out of solution. No I'm not tripping, I wish I was, its crazy in a few seconds the powder goes back into not being visible.

What the hell is going on here? Do I have a solution or a suspension? Because it seems like it's a solution until it gets agitated and then crashes. In fact the more I shake it, the more powder crashes out and floats in the PG. I'm baffled and I also want to be safe. I'm taking 8mg to augment my diazepam and eventually hope to replace my diazepam with flubromazepam because it just flat out works better. 8mg of flubromazepam appears to be roughly comparable to 5mg of diazepam for me but before I go kicking up doses and trading out diazepam doses for flubromazepam doses, I need to know what's going on with these solutions/suspensions so I can make sure I am getting a steady dose.

Also as a secondary question, would a fumarate salt, say 4-AcO-MET, a) go into solution and b) be more stable than water or alcohol because somehow I've acquired an insane 5-HT2A sensitivity so I need to be able to measure doses in the 5mg range and my scale just can't do that and be trusted so I was thinking 50mg/20mL or 25mL so I have better dosage control.

Thanks guys.

The flubromazepam baffles me. And I've made 6 100mL jars loaded at 4mg/mL I'd hate to hear that it's all wrong. It takes days to go into solution as it is. I don't want to have to start over.

My reasons for not using alcohol are simple. PG doesn't evaporate. I've had a test of a new batch of flubromazepam sitting around waiting for about a month now and never got to testing it (don't remember the loading either so I'm gonna toss it and make a new one) but it's still a liquid.
 
That sounds really odd, not sure exactly what's happening. I can tell you though that you don't always see particles in a suspension, sometimes the solution will just look cloudy without any visible particles.

Probably stupid question, but you're sure you're seeing particles and not just air bubbles working their way into the solution when you shake?
 
I bet you money you're making the PG solution at one temperature and as the winter comes on, the place you store it drops in temperature, solubility of benzos in PG goes down with temperature, the solution supersaturates, and as soon as you shake the stuff you provide nucleation sites for the crystals to form.

Solution: store it somewhere warm.
 
No sekio, we keep it around 70F here year round. Its not that.

And yes endotropic, its clear with some minor streaks... but if I shake it, the powder actually pops out. I wish I had a camera to capture the phenomenon, its quite odd ... and scary.

These solutions don't crash in the freezer... its not a temperature thing... its like the PG has grabbed and eaten the powder but when it gets severely agitated, it drops it like Pacman got run over by a ghost.

I can't explain it.

Dosage... seems to be on point without shaking... but its really hard to tell when I am taking 8mg to augment my diazepam instead of taking 24mg to get high as a kite...

If I didn't have to heat it and the temperature hasn't changed, shouldn't it be a solution based on the fact that its clear? I don't know what to think...
 
I know when I put phenazepam in pg it would crash out if I added any water..
just a thought but maybe there is water in the solution and when you re-mix the water into the pg it crashes the benzo out.

no idea why there would be water though.
 
Is there an easy way to access your solution without exposing it to the moisture in the air?
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Work with it in a nitrogen glove bag, or move to Arizona.

If you can't do either of those the best option is to pre-prepare multiple small containers, working quickly, on a day with low humidity. That way you can open them whenever and the maximum amount that will be spoiled is 10-20mL rather than the whole bottle.

Realistically the option most people will use is to just keep the containers well sealed and minimize the time they are open to air.
 
Well it's not exactly humid in Colorado and from what I understood PG was well-saturated anyway when you buy it as food grade.

The thing is... I'm not sure if I should shake it or not. I have been using 100mL of PG to 400mg of flubromazepam. I keep them in jars that are airtight enough (basically baby food jars) and when I pull doses it's a quick thing.

I haven't had any unexpected issues with dosing it in this manner, shaken or not so I'm not sure. If flubromazepam hit faster it would be far easier to tell but it takes hours before it kicks in.

I may have to stop making solutions/suspensions and just weigh it out which means my dose is going to be higher than I want.

I try to avoid adding alcohol because it's totally unstable... PG doesn't evaporate.

Would PEG be a better option? Or much the same?
 
sekio said:
Ethanol in sealed containers won't evaporate.
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It starts evaporating as soon as it's exposed to air, I got a very strong reminder of that with 91% isopropyl that I was using to clean liquid metal off my CPU to send my laptop in for an upgrade... No sooner did it touch than it began to evap.

Apparently PEG 200 has actually been studied with benzos though and found to have incredible solubility (61mg/mL diazepam)... So once these jars are gone I'm going to look into that route.
 
It starts evaporating as soon as it's exposed to air,
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So does water, and yet people make Kool-Aid.

The boiling point of ethanol is 74C and unless you make it into a thin film, bulk amounts won't evaporate.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
It starts evaporating as soon as it's exposed to air, I got a very strong reminder of that with 91% isopropyl that I was using to clean liquid metal off my CPU to send my laptop in for an upgrade... No sooner did it touch than it began to evap.

Apparently PEG 200 has actually been studied with benzos though and found to have incredible solubility (61mg/mL diazepam)... So once these jars are gone I'm going to look into that route.
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Assuming the CPU was still warm from resent usage, that would make sense. However, a drop of Isoalcohol - at normal room temperature, takes around 2 minutes to evaporate. At least in my experience. I mainly use Isopropyl Alcohol as an ignition source anyhow (as it's rather flammable).

Anyhow - if you're trying to dissolve benzo's - my plugging experience trying to get BZD's to dissolve in Polyethylene Glycol was poor. I highly recommend sticking to USP grade PG.
 
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