Stimulants Prolintane or Flakka: "good safety profile" or "will drive you insane"??

[Mycophile]

Prolintane or Flakka: "good safety profile" or "will drive you insane"??

Ok, I posted this in drugs and media but wanted to repost it here.

If you want to read about some of my recent experiences with Prolintane/A-PVP/"Flakka" you can read the other thread "Prolintane: Love at First Dose"

I didn't realize this shit was the same thing as the infamous "Flakka", but I wanted opinions as to whether this shit is crazy evil or relatively benign.


This is my latest post from "Drugs in the Media"


WAIT. A. MINUTE.

So Prolintane is the same thing as "Flakka"?!??!!

If you've been following me in the "Prolintane: Love at First Dose" thread you'd see that I got the idea from that thread (LITERALLY NO OFFENSE to the OP) that it had a "good safety profile" based on past research and used to be used to give energy to old people.

So now I've only experimented with it 6 times, sometimes by itself and sometimes combined with Phenibut and Kratom, and while ONE of the 6 times I didn't feel good, the other 5 have been fairly euphoric though I've felt somewhat "on edge" while on it but nothing REALLY bad.


I've had the impression that it's a stimulant that's "a LITTLE BIT" harsh on the body in low oral doses...NOT something that will drive people to attack police stations naked!!!!!

Now, it could be that i have NOT smoked or vaped it (and now I am NOT going to) and have only orally taken low doses, but this strikes me as odd.....that something I heard by one name described as "relatively benign with a good safety profile" is now also known under a street name and described as "HORRIBLE...it will make you go insane".


It's making me not sure if I should continue to experiment with this stuff, if it is SERIOUSLY bad for your heart or whatever, or if these are isolated scenarios and a lot of sensationalism????

Not that I was EVER planning on really getting into it....I have a fair amount but do not plan on taking more once I run out and may even eventually just toss it as it's not that great.......


BUT.....does anyone here with more knowledge about the substance that is both Prolintane/A-PVP and "Flakka" know the truth about where this drug REALLY ranges in its safety profile????


Is it 1) Prolintane--A drug that used to be prescribed to old people as a stimulant with a "good safety proflie"

OR

2) "Flakka" the new synthetic Crack/Meth that is driving people insane????


I wanna know if I should toss this stuff out and I'm interested in hearing opinions...

 

[spacejunk]

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

But for the record, prolintane is not the same thing as a-PVP.
a-PVP is an analogue of prolintane, but they are not the same thing...

 

[Mycophile]

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

But for the record, prolintane is not the same thing as a-PVP.
a-PVP is an analogue of prolintane, but they are not the same thing...

OH....thank you VERY much for clarifying Spacejunk!

That kind of destroys my premise but at the same time comforts me.

So are you saying that Wikipedia fucked up???

Ok, I was getting my info from the "See also" section on Prolintane which says:


See also[edit]

• α-PVP (β-ketone-prolintane, prolintanone)"

So did they fuck up or are these things just related???


We all know Wiki isn't 100% legit.


I am HOPING that the shit i"ve only RECENTLY been CAREFULLY experimenting with is NOT the infamous "flakka".


But are analogues REALLY that different from the chemical they "analogue"? (is "analogue" a verb?)????

Can analogues be very different in terms of safety profile from the related compounds?


I will await your expertise here, ESPECIALLY seeing as there was a large "Flakka" epidemic in Australia where you are from.


Any info would be appreciated sir...

 

[Mycophile]

Ok Spacejunk HERE is where I got the info that they were the same NOT on the Prolintane wiki page but when I clicked on their link for "A-PVP" I was redirected to this page saying that Prolintane, A-PVP and Flakka are all the same thing. Are they wrong or not, and if you believe they ARE wrong could you please site a source??

(For the record I HOPE they are wrong and I'm not using the infamous "Flakka" but only the "benign" Prolintane....Some sarcasm has been used here hehe)


α-Pyrrolidinopentiophenone (also known as alpha-pyrrolidinovalerophenone, α-PVP, alpha-PVP, O-2387, β-keto-prolintane, Prolintanone, or Desmethyl Pyrovalerone) is a synthetic stimulant of the cathinone class developed in the 1960s that has been sold as a designer drug.^[1] Colloquially it is sometimes called flakka or gravel. α-PVP is chemically related to pyrovalerone and is the ketone analog of prolintane.^[2]

 

[Mycophile]

Oh wait...sorry....I'm fucked up hahah.....

I see they DO say above it's just an analog of Prolitane and ONE of its names is B-Keto-Prolintane but NOW what I want to know is how different are they in terms of safety profile??

When I swallow 60-80mgs of Prolintane from a known vendor am I doing the same thing as these people in Florida who were smoking or freebasing A-PVP aka Flakka??

How different are the risks they are taking from the ones I am taking??


I don't FEEL like I am doing something THAT bad...albeit I can feel it's harsh on my body but I ASSUME if I use it sporadically I am not killing myself (perhaps naive?)


But I don't feel it's the drug being described in the threads I have skimmed on this forum leading to naked men impaling themselves while trying to escape invisible enemies or attack police stations while naked lol......


I just don't know if an analog can be SIGNIFICANTLY different from its related compounds in both safety profile and effect.....not to mention the "dose makes the poison" or "ROA makes the poison" recognized rules amongst drug users).


Whenever you have time let me know.

Thanks.

 

[mindseye888]

Lol, a 'benign' cathinone...really?
Prolintane http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.13930.html?rid=bf4c69ca-d24c-434b-ac16-4e8fddca1591
A-pvp http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.9324063.html?rid=3df555d2-f06a-4aae-88f1-4fd1c22e13e8

 

[Mycophile]

Lol, a 'benign' cathinone...really?

Ok so since you even know what cathinones are you clearly know more than me...but notice I used quotation marks on "benign".

Then again, would you call Dexadrine or Adderall "benign".

Let me know if you would....not kidding....I'm curious...I REALLY don't know much about drugs (that's why I'm here.....).



I am NOT a "heavy" drug user or "heavy" stimulant user.

I used Coke several times over a decade ago...NEVER AGAIN.

I HOPE that this shit is NOT as bad as Coke or I'd think twice PLUS it's not that good really.


But No one said it's "benign".......The thread "Prolintane: Love at First Dose" has SOMEONE (not throwing the OP under the bus, don't remember if it was him either).......saying that reportedly "Prolintane has a good safety profile".


Not the same as benign though.


I HEARD Prolintane was used medically by prescription in the 1950s in old age homes to give energy to the elderly.

That's about all that seems to REALLY be known about this compound.


Maybe you could elucidate what you know about Prolintane specifically??


I've only used it 6 times ORALLY and usually in doses below 100mgs but am I taking a SERIOUS risk doing so???


I'll listen to what you have to say.

I'm NOT so into this shit that I won't toss it if you can convince me it's dangerous though I MIGHT take one FINAL dose tomrrow haha....depends on the input of you, Spacejunk, and people who clearly know more than me.....)

 

[mindseye888]

So are you arguing that prolintane and a-pvp are same, that prolintane is safe, I'm not sure man. I'd suggest staying away from it by the posts you've put in this thread.
I don't think you could even call caffeine begign really.

 

[Mycophile]

So are you arguing that prolintane and a-pvp are same, that prolintane is safe, I'm not sure man. I'd suggest staying away from it by the posts you've put in this thread.

First of all...I'm drunk.

So is THAT why you'd suggest "staying away from it" from how erratic most posts are???

No, caffeine is not "benign"...I also drink WAAAY too much of that lol.....


I ALSO took Prolintane earlier dude, but my posts wouldn't sound like this if I wasn't drunk...plus, what posts "sound like" means shit.


I started the thread ASSUMING they were the same.

Now that I know they AREN'T...I have questions regarding their differences and the differences in their safety profiles from some who know more than me and also the difference (in terms of safety) between taking Dexedrine, a stimulant I am comfortable using and will continue to use, and Prolintane.


Any input???

 

[mindseye888]

According to this source prolintane overdose can cause psychosis and death http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/7/415
It took two minutes searching Google to find that and one minute to show the chemspider sources to show there different substances.
Hope this helps man, stay safe, stay calm.

 

[Mycophile]

According to this source prolintane overdose can cause psychosis and death http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/7/415
It took two minutes searching Google to find that and one minute to show the chemspider sources to show there different substances.
Hope this helps man, stay safe, stay calm.

Thank you.

But Why did you sarcastically say "a benign cathinone" as if ALL cathinones are HORRIBLE for you? Just curious...


"Prolintane is a sympathomimetic amine with pharmacologic properties similar to d-amphetamine."


Knowing that alone makes me less concerned.

I've used Dexedrine for over 10 years but always in very small doses, never exceeding 5mgs and never with any problems and most Dexamphetamine users end up fine.


Also, both of these people used other drugs.

EVERY drug has had an overdose death with the exception of Cannabis.

That doesn't make a drug unsafe because we don't in this case know the ROA or dosage or other factors and drugs involved.


Prolintane is certainly a very new compound so I don't think anyone will have all the answers.

I just kind of freaked out thinking Flakka/A-PVP which has all these horror stories surrounding it was the same as Prolintane but I STILL don't know how different they are.


So I'm kind of looking for someone who knows more about pharmacology like the mods like Spacejunk and Sekio to point out whether or not an analogue can really be different from the related compounds in terms of safety profile and whether or not they think doses no higher than oral doses of 80mgs of Prolintane is usually a safe dose.

Seems you don't have this info.

I'm not very concerned though.

I was more concerned when I THOUGHT Flakka and Prolintane were the same.

I'm still curious though as to whether or not an analogue can greatly differ from it's related drugs.

I certainly don't feel like storming a police station naked haha.


I look forward to Spacejunk and other informed posters/mods responses at a later point...

 

[spacejunk]

I've taken prolintane and a-pvp, and limited as those experiences were (with prolintane, anyway) - i can confidently say that prolintane feels a lot safer - and has, unlike a-pvp, been approved for medical use.

Its worth remembering that all stimulants are potentially dangerous if you take them in high doses for long periods of time.

The risks of taking pretty much any stimulant can be managed and reduced by following harm reduction techniques - such as ensuring you sleep, eat and stay hydrated.

The mental health side effects you are talking about are caused by psychosis - which can result from taking stimulants, especially when you've had enough sleep.

While many of the news reports of drugs like a-pvp seem to be sensationalised horror-stories, it is true that cathinones such as a-pvp and mdpv can cause psychological disturbances rather quickly.
I don't know how prolintane compares in this regard, but most reports i have read seem to indicate that it should be considered less risky - but obviously not entirely without risk.

The benefit of taking prolintane - compared to research chemicals like a-pvp - is that safety data actually exists and should be accessible, because it is a drug used in medicine, so if you search the right sources, you'll be able to find reliable scientific data on safe dosing, contraindications etc

 

[Mycophile]

^^^^

Thanks Spacejunk.

Obviously all these substances involve risks, but I suppose I was at least partially correct that Prolintane is considered to have a better safety profile than A-PVP and I think I can assume it got its reputation as having a "good safety profile" by the fact that it was medically approved.

That still doesn't mean its safe under all conditions of course though.

From what you are saying, and from my personal experiences thus far, I think I'm probably not taking a HUGE risk to my health by consuming doses no higher than 80mgs orally, no more than twice a week and not mixed with hard drugs.

Of course much of this is "assumption"...it's a new compound and I usually don't risk trying these "new drugs"...(I won't be buying more when I run out, it's not that good anyway) but at least it makes me feel a bit more relaxed about using it in this context.

It SEEMS to me that a lot of these drugs that lead to these effects are more often snorted, injected or smoked than taken orally??

Not sure others would agree but could it not be assumed that when a drug is swallowed and has to be processed through the entire body its effects end up being more "dumbed down" than the immediate effects of snorting, smoking or injecting??

 

[General alcazar]

I've had several weekend long binges with smoked and IV alpha-pvp. I found it to be a massively powerful, psychosis inducing stimulant that I loved, but broke me down more than even mdpv did and was horribly compulsive. I tossed the stuff and won't go near it now.
I purchased prolintane because I wanted a light functional stimulant but worried due to the structural similarity to alpha-pvp. In summary prolintane is not abusable. I tried vaping it and it vapes well but not recreational. I also took a 50 mg then a 100 mg IV dose. Both did not have any euphoria and were very unpleasant due to peripheral side-effects. Prolintane is also really painful to inject (i.e. Peripheral tissue inflammation).
I went through all this to assure I wouldn't be tempted to binge on it (did the same with ipp).
For A fubctional stimulation a combo of 15 mgs isopropylphenidate, 200 mg adrafinil, oxyracetam, choline and 5 mg prolintane is perfect; they get me through long, demanding workdays and no temptation to abuse.
Just thought I'd share...

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Well well, it's Mycophile, my old friend.

I am the person who started the Love at First Dose thread. I don't know what has transpired in that thread, I haven't checked it again yet. I should make some comments though...

I know I said I experimented with doses upwards of 80mg, but that was only a couple times and that is definitely an excessive dose. These days I barely exceed 40mg and still get plenty satisfying of an effect. After posting that thread I went a very long time without it, only recently obtaining it again. It is NOT something to get high on, but more of an additive to an average night for euphoric energy. It says in many places that it has a "good safety profile", but I'm not sure what they meant by that. It definitely feels very gentle on the body and mind, especially for how effective it is. It is a drug though, and it really works, and every time I take it there's a few points where I think to myself "I can't believe how good I feel right now". Combined with kratom and phenibut, it's off the charts. Again, I DON'T KNOW HOW SAFE THIS IS, so I do not do this very often, I do not redose, and I don't plan to make a habit out of it. When I run out, I won't order more again for an extended period of time. Like I said it FEELS very safe and gentle, "benign" might be a stretch though. There is a marked increase in body temperature and sweating, strong euphoria, smooth stimulation, motivation and talkativeness, and a strong general anti-depressant effect. I've checked my heart rate a few times during experiences, and I can't say there has been any significant increase in rate or intensity, nor does my heart feel overworked the next day. Later in the night I have noticed an elevated heart rate, but that's after smoking plenty of cannabis which reliably increases heart rate, so the jury's out. There have been times where my lady said she noticed me moving my jaw around a lot, and I definitely notice a "desire" to move it around, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it "gurning", it's not a strong effect. I imagine it might have some anti-dep effects similar to Wellbutrin, as it is a DNRI. I feel like everything is right in the world when I'm on prolintane, it reminds me of how I felt when I was much, much younger. Just pure contentment and motivation, down for anything and cool with any situation. There can be moments of edgyness, but I find phenibut counter-balances that almost perfectly. The other night I dosed on kratom, phenibut and prolintane and went out to meet friends, and was offered some psilocybin stems. I ate what probably didn't even weigh out to more than 1.5g and for the rest of the night had one of the most euphoric, fun, grounded, smooth and just plain awesome mushroom experiences I may have ever had. Did pretty much a lap around Seattle on foot, drank a decent amount of whiskey, but also made sure to stay hydrated. Woke up the next day feeling like a million bucks.

So, all in all, from my personal experiences, prolintane definitely has not expressed any kind of effect or side-effect to make me feel like it could be harmful. Even when I did abuse it a bit by taking excessive doses, re-dosing and dosing days in succession, I still didn't experience anything bad. Not even a comedown or hangover, really, it just comes and goes and that's it. The absolute worst that has happened was some fatigue and maybe a bit of emotional flattening, but that corrects itself in 1 day, tops. Quite amazing for how seriously effective it is. AGAIN, I'm not a doctor nor a neuro-scientist, so I have no idea if my brain will melt out my earholes in 2 years or not, everything I state here and in that other thread are 1000000000000% subjective personal experiences.

Please folks, be careful. Don't be taking huge doses, start small. You'll see that it becomes just as effective at 30-40mg, and you'll probably get a lot less anxiety or edgyness from lower doses.

 

[Hodor]

The beta-keto group that differentiates Prolintane from a-PVP basically makes a drug weaker as a releasing agent but stronger as a reuptake inhibitor.

So when you take the extremely powerful "releasing agent"-type stimulant Methamphetamine and add a beta-ketone, you get the moderately powerful stim Methcathinone.
On the other hand, adding the beta-keto to the moderately powerful "reuptake inhibitor"-type stimulant Prolintane gets you the very powerful stim alpha-PVP.

 

[Mycophile]

Well well, it's Mycophile, my old friend.

I am the person who started the Love at First Dose thread. I don't know what has transpired in that thread, I haven't checked it again yet. I should make some comments though...

I know I said I experimented with doses upwards of 80mg, but that was only a couple times and that is definitely an excessive dose. These days I barely exceed 40mg and still get plenty satisfying of an effect. After posting that thread I went a very long time without it, only recently obtaining it again. It is NOT something to get high on, but more of an additive to an average night for euphoric energy. It says in many places that it has a "good safety profile", but I'm not sure what they meant by that. It definitely feels very gentle on the body and mind, especially for how effective it is. It is a drug though, and it really works, and every time I take it there's a few points where I think to myself "I can't believe how good I feel right now". Combined with kratom and phenibut, it's off the charts. Again, I DON'T KNOW HOW SAFE THIS IS, so I do not do this very often, I do not redose, and I don't plan to make a habit out of it. When I run out, I won't order more again for an extended period of time. Like I said it FEELS very safe and gentle, "benign" might be a stretch though. There is a marked increase in body temperature and sweating, strong euphoria, smooth stimulation, motivation and talkativeness, and a strong general anti-depressant effect. I've checked my heart rate a few times during experiences, and I can't say there has been any significant increase in rate or intensity, nor does my heart feel overworked the next day. Later in the night I have noticed an elevated heart rate, but that's after smoking plenty of cannabis which reliably increases heart rate, so the jury's out. There have been times where my lady said she noticed me moving my jaw around a lot, and I definitely notice a "desire" to move it around, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it "gurning", it's not a strong effect. I imagine it might have some anti-dep effects similar to Wellbutrin, as it is a DNRI. I feel like everything is right in the world when I'm on prolintane, it reminds me of how I felt when I was much, much younger. Just pure contentment and motivation, down for anything and cool with any situation. There can be moments of edgyness, but I find phenibut counter-balances that almost perfectly. The other night I dosed on kratom, phenibut and prolintane and went out to meet friends, and was offered some psilocybin stems. I ate what probably didn't even weigh out to more than 1.5g and for the rest of the night had one of the most euphoric, fun, grounded, smooth and just plain awesome mushroom experiences I may have ever had. Did pretty much a lap around Seattle on foot, drank a decent amount of whiskey, but also made sure to stay hydrated. Woke up the next day feeling like a million bucks.

So, all in all, from my personal experiences, prolintane definitely has not expressed any kind of effect or side-effect to make me feel like it could be harmful. Even when I did abuse it a bit by taking excessive doses, re-dosing and dosing days in succession, I still didn't experience anything bad. Not even a comedown or hangover, really, it just comes and goes and that's it. The absolute worst that has happened was some fatigue and maybe a bit of emotional flattening, but that corrects itself in 1 day, tops. Quite amazing for how seriously effective it is. AGAIN, I'm not a doctor nor a neuro-scientist, so I have no idea if my brain will melt out my earholes in 2 years or not, everything I state here and in that other thread are 1000000000000% subjective personal experiences.

Please folks, be careful. Don't be taking huge doses, start small. You'll see that it becomes just as effective at 30-40mg, and you'll probably get a lot less anxiety or edgyness from lower doses.

Damn, Kratom, Phenibut, Prolintane, Shrooms and Whiskey sounds like an AMAZING combination!!

That would be the kind of combo I'd love to do although I try never to drink TOO much on Phenibut.

Really IMO drinking on Phenibut is probably not the greatest thing in general, but if it's just a couple drinks I think it's probably ok.

Otherwise shrooms are my favorite drug but honestly Kratom is a close 2nd.

While I did enjoy Prolintane the several times I did it (I'm guessing I did it around 14-18 times or so) I can't say I like it as much as Kratom.

I don't know which I prefer overall, Prolintane or Phenibut, but I prefer Kratom to both.

But yeah, that combo is great and about 2 months ago I got SUPER high on a mix of Kratom, about 3,200mgs of Pheinbut, I think it was 40mgs of Prolintane and went out to my local bar and got pretty drunk on around 6 or 7 drinks, some whiskey shots and some beers.

I can only imagine how much better adding some shrooms into the mix would have been, as long as you don't get sick to your stomach that is.

Yeah, it was weird cause the first time i ever did Prolintane I actually was crazy enough to take 120mgs (the most I've ever taken) which IMO is WAY too much but I actually had a very smooth and relaxing high.

Then there was this one day i decided to go to work on around 60mgs of Prolintane and is was NOT a good experience.

That's really the only bad experience I had on Prolintane, that one day I worked on it.

I felt very jittery and uncomfortable and out of it and like it was heavy on my body.

But MOST of the other times I've done it it has been decent if not a really great high several times.

I personally think about 40mgs is the perfect dose, maybe sometimes 50mgs but I prefer to keep it below 60mgs.

I do still find it can sometimes make me jittery or feel weird or not so comfortable at CERTAIN moments, but I'd say I was enjoying the drug about at least 65-70% of the time.

I still think I prefer a good Dexadrine high slightly and would consider it the closest high to Prolintane that I have had, but only if I get the dosage of Dex just right and after using it a lot over the years for some reason that drug has turned on me at times lately, while I've never actually done plain Adderall (the mixture of Dex and another stim as i remember), so I can't say how similar to either Prolintane or pure Dex that might feel.

But now these days the vendor I used has been out of Prolintane for about 4 months now and keeps saying they will EVENTUALLY get more but don't know when.

So I ran out of the last of it I had I think around May or something, and haven't done any since.

If I get the chance to order more I probably will sooner or later, but after the next few days I'm going to try to abstain from most drugs for a while, and in particular take a LONG break from Kratom.

Prolintane's probably something I'd try again a couple times in a few months though, but even if I ever do order more I don't plan on using it a whole lot in the future, maybe just one more small container or something.

 

[sekio]

"The dose makes the poison", as always.

Methamphetamine is prescribed for ADD/ADHD at 5mg oral doses and is considered safe enough the FDA hasn't banned it entirely, and in fact is regarded to have a nicer side effect profile than Adderall/Dexedrine for some. Yet when abused in 100mg+ bolus doses smoked out of a glass pipe the effects and aftermath of usage is much different.