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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Precipitated WD with Subutex??

C

coopie

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
105
Hi,

It looks like I'm going to be getting on Subutex soon in aid of WD from opiates (obviously) -but not related to methadone tho. So I'm doing my research and that includes getting some feedback from some experienced BL members if you choose to oblige...

So in this resource I have it warns of 'precipitated withdrawal: a problem in starting subutex treatment'. Here is an exerpt:

'If you have a lot of opiates in your system, such as heroin or methadone, when you take your first dose of Subutex, the Subutex will compete with, and kick other opiates (heroin, methadone) off the opiate receptors. However, Subutex has 'weaker' opiate effects than heroin or methadone - and this reduction in opiate activity may be experienced as withdrawal. As it has been caused by the first dose of Subutex, it is called 'precipitated withdrawal'. You can reduce the likelihood of precipitated withdraway by:

- lowering the amount of opiates you use before Subutex
- delaying the first dose of Subutex (wait and take it when you are in early stages of opiate WD)
- Starting with low Subutex doses (high doses of S can remove other opiates off receptors and cause GREATER precipitated WD.....

So I guess what I want to know from you is:
- have you experienced precipitated WD in relation to Subutex?
- How bad do you rate precipitated WD?
- Did you use a method to reduce the risk of precipitated WD? what was it?

And I guess any other reccommendations and info/experiences of Subutex would be handy....

Thanks heaps for that!

Coopie
 
most of the answers to your questions can be found through searching..
check out the suboxone/ buprenorphine mega-thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=499087

suboxone and subutex are pretty much the same, the naloxone in suboxone isn't active along with the buprenorphine because bupe has a higher affinity to the receptors than naloxone. The naloxone is out competed by the bupe..So pretty much questions about subutex and suboxone can be answered the same. The first few posts in the mega-thread are full of info and will give you a lot of answers to questions you have.

coopie said:
Hi,

So I guess what I want to know from you is:
- have you experienced precipitated WD in relation to Subutex?
- How bad do you rate precipitated WD?
- Did you use a method to reduce the risk of precipitated WD? what was it?

Coopie
Click to expand...


-I haven't personally been through precip w/d's but subutex causes it the same way suboxone would.
-Precip w/d's are usually rated by people to be very unpleasant and more severe (but shorter) than regular w/d.
-To reduce the risk of precip w/d's wait until you are in full w/d's before taking suboxone/subutex.. the bupe pulls other opiates off the receptors causing the pw/ds so if the receptors are empty there is nothing to be pulled off, so no pw/d's.
Hope this helped.
 
Last edited:
I have experienced Precipitated Withdrawls from BOTH Subutex and Suboxone.. so yes you will get PW/Ds with either preparation of Buprenorphine.

IMO.. if you are in w/d waiting to get on suboxone... if you are going to suffer for 24 hours.. why not just get it over it in an hour (as in take suboxone when you start feeling shitty) rather than waiting 24 hours to take it? I did it today and while it sucked for an hour.. I definitely felt much better than I would have if i spent the whole day in withdrawls. It's up to you though.
 
I have had Precip w/d a few times, never lasted more than 30mins for me. Its basically 30min, sitting on the toilet shitting, sweating your ass off, and getting chills. It sucks, but it's a wonderful feeling when the subs kick in!

Your best bet, if your taking oxies, wait a minimum of 18hrs before taking your subs. The higher you dose on oxy before you take a sub, the longer you will have to wait. When my last oxy dose was in the range of like 45mg, I could take a sub 12hrs later. Now that my oxy doses nearly double, I wait at least 18hrs or so.

Everyone is different, but the longer you wait, the better you'll be.

When I started my sub program, I took my last )oxy) dose (60mg) at 4pm. That night I loaded up on xanax, Excedrin PM, etc, and slept well through the night and until around 1pm the next day. I was then able to manage (quite comfortably) until my 5pm Dr appt. that next day, in which I started my sub regime.
 
as this is a more general discussion i moved this over to BDD; there's plenty of bupe threads in OD, especially the Bupe Megathread, where people have shared their thoughts on those questions.
 
BaybeX said:
I have experienced Precipitated Withdrawls from BOTH Subutex and Suboxone.. so yes you will get PW/Ds with either preparation of Buprenorphine.

IMO.. if you are in w/d waiting to get on suboxone... if you are going to suffer for 24 hours.. why not just get it over it in an hour (as in take suboxone when you start feeling shitty) rather than waiting 24 hours to take it? I did it today and while it sucked for an hour.. I definitely felt much better than I would have if i spent the whole day in withdrawls. It's up to you though.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above statements. P w/d's are severe but only last a couple of hours. O found it better to suffer for an hour than to suffer fir a day. But again it's your choice.
 
Cool, this is just the info I was after - thanks everyone! And I'll check out that mega thread - cheers for that! I'm still figuring my way around this site...

It sounds like Precipated WD isn't that bad -well if it is 'that bad' it's good that it doesn't seem to last long - good to know!

Thanks again

Peace,

Coopie
 
Regarding precipitated withdrawals, I got some from IV subutex bad. I was on methadone 120mg a day, for maybe 4 months. As all done clinics work, they worked me up from bout 30mg to 120 in a 4 month period of time. They went extra slow since I was on benzos, dicks. Anyways, initially, i was shooting 3 8mg subutexs @ 1.5 pills per shot, a day. I did this WHILE ON METHADONE until around 60mg and then I stopped. Why it still worked and gave me a rush while on done, I still don't know till this day. Then my withdrawals subsided around 80mg, so I dropped the subutex. One day I was like, I wanna shoot up bad. So i got 12mg of subutex and shot it while on 120mg of methadone. Jesus Christ, i thought I was dieing. I pissed/puked & was feeling like I was dieing. I layed in my bed, with 91 pressed on my cell phone. Then I said fuck it. With my family downstairs, I laid in my bed & was crazy fucked up with a feeling I would shoot myself, if I ever felt like that again. I thought it was an OD, that would of been less painful actually. I slept on it, after about 8 hours of crazy dreams and feeling worse then I ever had, I woke up the next day still 1/2 spent. Went to the clinic, re dosed there, and was ok later that day. But I will never forget that day. July 23rd 2008. Thats my 2 cents.
 
hey,i too have just 2 day started subutex,i was a 25 year white coller hydrocodone addict,at the end i was takeing up to 60 lortab 10's per day,just to keep from feeling sick,it was'nt working anymore,so long story short,i cold turkeyed,made myself walk everyday,and it was hard,bottom line i stayed clean fro over a year,with a flick of a switch i put a compounded 100mg hydrocodone cap in my mouth and was right back 2 where i started,i only stayed out a month before going to methadone clinic,first methadone saved my life,second my old drug behavier returned and i abused methadone and benzo's for 7 years,nov 09 i found a dr.that would ween me off methadone for as long and slow as it took,i was at this time on 180mg of methadone and 2day actually saturday i took my last methadone 40mg's.i just filled subutex 3. 8mg's per day,i was scared as hell to put subutex in my mouth 4 fear of all u read and hear about throwing u into the worst w\d ever,so i followed the drs.orders,took 1.8mg and waited for the outcome,nothing happened,i was still kicking from not having any methadone in me for 48 hours,so 3 hours later i took another,i think the fear was unwarranted,im not feeling great but im deffinatly not in any thing close 2 what i felt like before i started,and anyone who has ever tried to kick methadone know,s its the absolute worst w\d ive have ever had,even after just 2 days w\o meth.did my dr. give me this form, subutex as opposed to suboxone so that i would'nt go into ful blown w\d?
im just curious if any of you can relate to the fear of methadone detox and the scary stories u hear about people taking bupronorphine and having really bad w\d.
Thanks 4 any response and info on what i should expect in the coming week or two

razor19
 
Helpppp I've been in precip withdrawal for 12.5 hours now, I was retarded and took an 8mg dose 6 hours after my last shot. IMMEDIATELY started to withdraw, had to leave work and everything.

My question is...it's been 12.5 hours and no improvement. In fact it kind of feels like it's getting worse...should I take another one?? Or will that just make it worse?
 
I need help bad!! I was on about 500mg of blues (oxi) and took 60mg yesterday morning at 8am and took 8mg of Subutex at 11am and then 4mg at 1:30pm and through myself into precipitated withdrawal. What hell!!!!! Its the next day and my last Sub dosage was 2mg at 11am. I still feel really bad. My real question is do I have to wait a certain amount of time to take opiates after subs? Will it help with the withdrawal? I know I won't feel the opiates till days later... that's not my concern... I just want to get out of w/d's
 
Hi Cloe.

Did you ever find out an answer? I wrote this just now..... "I need help bad!! I was on about 500mg of blues (oxi) and took 60mg yesterday morning at 8am and took 8mg of Subutex at 11am and then 4mg at 1:30pm and through myself into precipitated withdrawal. What hell!!!!! Its the next day and my last Sub dosage was 2mg at 11am. I still feel really bad. My real question is do I have to wait a certain amount of time to take opiates after subs? Will it help with the withdrawal? I know I won't feel the opiates till days later... that's not my concern... I just want to get out of w/d's"
 
Fingers_crossed said:
I need help bad!! I was on about 500mg of blues (oxi) and took 60mg yesterday morning at 8am and took 8mg of Subutex at 11am and then 4mg at 1:30pm and through myself into precipitated withdrawal. What hell!!!!! Its the next day and my last Sub dosage was 2mg at 11am. I still feel really bad. My real question is do I have to wait a certain amount of time to take opiates after subs? Will it help with the withdrawal? I know I won't feel the opiates till days later... that's not my concern... I just want to get out of w/d's
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, once you're in PW, there's really no getting out of it until it's run its course. You can take all the opiates and bupe you want and it won't even make a dent. I've been in PW and it's absolutely awful, and I feel your pain, but anything you take before you start to feel better is just going to be a waste. Try to stay hydrated and hang in there.
 
As Wezface stated, there's really nothing you can do until the Subs are out of your system. Such is the whole point behind them...

The other messages in this thread are years old so no one is going to get back to you...
 
Actually, I don't believe "running it's course" to be the only option. About a cpl years ago I made the mistake of taking my sub too early... Honestly, I thought, I'll die from this... PW/D... No, scratch that, I would have welcomed death after that nightmare. But the point is, I grabbed a bunch of bags and did them and they made it stop. You can stop it with opiates. You need a lot, yes, but you can stop it.
 
I'm on 90mg of methadone yesterday I took half a subutex without thinking. I'm a former marine 3 tours in Iraq (if it makes much of a difference) but I got hurt and prescribed Percocet over time I was addicted to heroin i never shot it which but addiction is addiction anyway the instant withdrawal from from the subutex is the worst thing I've ever experienced. Its been over 24 hours afterwards and I'm still nauseous and have a headache but the intense withdrawal ended after about 8 hours. Never take subs unless your sure your clean or at least almost have opiates out of your system
 
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