Potency of betahydroxyfentanyl

[Fertile]

I found a source for the EC50 of fentanyl and (±) beta hydroxy fentanyl.

Wild-type μ-opioid receptor in vitro (EC50s = 38.1 and 64.9 nM, respectively).

Now in 'Opiates' by Lenz et al they state that the gamma -OH doesn't increase affinity BUT it improves transport to the receptor with (S) phenoperidine having a duration some x7 the (R). I got to wondering - with such short duration opioids, will those really short durations seemingly affect potency simply because the drug isn't transported? The (S) isomer if beta hydroxyfentanyl is the more potent (whereas it's the (R) isomer of aMP.

SO I wondered if anyone had other sources for the effects of a beta (or gamma) hydroxy on the potency of opioids. I briefly used to talk to Robojunkie and he sent Superjunky's route to alpha methyl fenttanyl. Lab notes - not huge amounts of detail, nothing unexpected BUT Robojunky said they usually made plain vanilla and when they tried the beta hydroxy, it was MUCH more potent.

I forget the dose he mentioned, but it was some silly large figure. I knew they were in deep.

I'm just keen to know if and by how much that (S) beta hydroxy has on the potency of fentanyl. I should add that beta hydroxy fentanyl and beta hydroxy thiofentanyl have both turned up in Russia killing many.

 

[izo]

2003 - Synthesis and analgesic activity of stereoisomers of cis-fluoro-ohmefentanyl

whats your opinoin on this paper? almost twice as strong as carfentanyl? can this be believed? its from china.

 

[Fertile]

The problem is, when you reach those potencies, it's very hard to tie down potency. It could be x20000 in some people, x30000 in others. There are much more potent analogues of etorphine that cost no more to make BUT their action isn't reliable.

I don't consider potency alone. I use a kind of formula thus: (potency - cost) ÷ complexity.

Look at AP-237 & Azaprocin. The p-Nitro homologue of azaprocin is x25M but even with the bridge missing, you still end up with something in the range of M using totally unwatched precursors in 2 steps. You can make it in your kitchen.

 

[izo]

I don't consider potency alone.

as already mentioned. for optimal recreational activty biggest potency is rather a nono. when it comes to super potent opioids this is defenetively the case.

 

[paracelsius]

Look at AP-237 & Azaprocin. The p-Nitro homologue of azaprocin is x25M but even with the bridge missing, you still end up with something in the range of M......

Was the p-NO2 of the piperazine AP tested though?? I mean 1-propionyl-4-nitrocinnamyl-piperazine (or 1-butyryl). Sure one would expect it to follow SAR of the bicyclic azaprocinor even nitazenes or metopholine..etc, but one never knows?
It is weird how this compound is now spreading like wildfire (in the US at least) even tho most report it incredibly toxic (was there a thread on BL on that?) and very lacklustre as an opioid really. Crazy how the prices of those are shooting up lately. I guess maybe has to do with legality of the compound v demand.

 

[Fertile]

Well buccinazine with the p-NO2 is a known compound. We know azaprocin is more potent with the p-NO2.

Think about it - with azaprocin, the amide is 1 carbon shorter.... so the p-NO2 will fit into the same spot.

So being EXACT AP-238 with 1 carbon removed from amide and p-NO2 added WILL be more potent.

With azaprocin, the p-NO2 makes the compound 2.5x more potent.

It's STILL 2 steps from commercially available compounds... and it's potency will be 0.83x M.... but it's MW is lighter than M so it's potency will match that of M.

So MAYBE it's THE cheapest M potency opioid? I mean, I do not think that those chiral methyls are required, but I would begin with them in place and see if I could simplify to bring down price.

 

[paracelsius]

With azaprocin, the p-NO2 makes the compound 2.5x more potent.

It's STILL 2 steps from commercially available compounds... and it's potency will be 0.83x M.... but it's MW is lighter than M so it's potency will match that of M.

So MAYBE it's THE cheapest M potency opioid? I mean, I do not think that those chiral methyls are required, but I would begin with them in place and see if I could simplify to bring down price.

Actually 25x not 2.5 iirc 25xM have to check my notes. Could be the NO2 making it fit better but I think it is probably just electronic effects by the NO2 . I bet you a para-Fluoro would be as potent as the NO2. It is in pretty much all fent opiods.

No the methyl is not really required (the Chinese put it there to bypass law in China where buccinazine is illegal imo. Ring substituted plain piperazines would do just fine.

Oh btw I don't believe the APs are inherently toxic but by-products of the synth are poisons literally (cinnamyl chloride and butyryl or propionyl chloride!!?). Am sure those chinese dont give shit about cleaning that up. So I am not surprised ppl in some other forums report batches smelling like cinnamon!

 

[Fertile]

Actually 25x not 2.5 iirc 25xM have to check my notes. Could be the NO2 making it fit better but I think it is probably just electronic effects by the NO2 . I bet you a para-Fluoro would be as potent as the NO2. It is in pretty much all fent opiods.

No the methyl is not really required (the Chinese put it there to bypass law in China where buccinazine is illegal imo. Ring substituted plain piperazines would do just fine.

Oh btw I don't believe the APs are inherently toxic but by-products of the synth are poisons literally (cinnamyl chloride and butyryl or propionyl chloride!!?). Am sure those chinese dont give shit about cleaning that up. So I am not surprised ppl in some other forums report batches smelling like cinnamon!

So AP238 with the amide 1 carbon shorter and a p-NO2 is x25 M - the same as azaprocin? I don't think so. I might be wrong - but then WHY bother with the bridge in the azaprocin scaffold?