Stimulants Pemoline and comparison to other ADHD stimulants (experiences wanted)

[defectiveforce]

I live in a place that still uses pemoline and after being on concerta (Methylphenidate) for a couple years but not really happy with it, my doctor suggested to give pemoline a shot. The issue is that nowadays you can't find anything on it. Some people used it a long long time ago but that's about it - barely any experiences or reports.

Subjectively, it's really not bad. I feel very stimulated on it, but not like a robot. Where MPH made me more silent and be in my head, pemoline made me more outgoing and less zombie-like. I get a pretty bad crash in the evening after 8h though, that I'm combatting by redosing around afternoon

But I can't make up my mind because it's so hard to compare

For example I can also feel my heartbeat getting a good bit faster than on MPH, and often notice a very strong beat (probably higher blood pressure?) in the evening that freaks me out a bit

On MPH I also feel more productive and better at my job at work, but more like a productive zombie? Very silent, observing, in my head. Pemoline makes me more impulsive and random which isn't a bad thing because it lets more of my personality through, but I feel dumber compared to MPH.

Anyone here experience with pemoline especially in comparison to other things? Please share!
It was marketed as brandname "Cylert" in the states in the past

Older threads:
- https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/pemoline-experiences-wanted.738227/ (2014)
- https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/pemoline-whats-up-about-the-oxazolines.734359/ (2014)

 

[Xorkoth]

Pemoline was taken off the market, in America anyway, for liver toxicity, I believe. Sorry, I have no experiences. I do have experience with the closely related cyclazodone, and I find it a quality functional stimulant, not many side effects and fairly effective.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Oh I heard good things about pemolin, and it being structurally related to aminorex is promising. Never had access to it but it sounds like being superior to dexamphetamine which already sets a high bar. There were a few liver problems but really few, Wikipedia lists a total of 21 cases. Maybe ask your doc to monitor the liver values when introducing the pemoline.

Yeah, MPH is heavily physical stimulating, I developed angina pectoris on a pretty low dose and had to stop, later Vyvanse was much lighter on the heart. I think pemoline should have less of cardiac load.

 

[defectiveforce]

> I do have experience with the closely related cyclazodone, and I find it a quality functional stimulant, not many side effects and fairly effective.

I haven't heard of Cyclazodone before but it looks interesting. Do you have any comparisons to other stimulants? I don't have experience with amphetamines at all and can really only compare it to methylphenidate, but I'm curious to hear how it stacks up against other things (and against MPH as well)
It's my first time coming in contact with this family of meds. I don't even know how to properly call them (aminorex analogues?)

I find especially this claim on wikipedia about pemoline interesting:

Pemoline is generally considered dopaminergic, but its precise method of action hasn't yet been definitively determined.[4] Pemoline passes the blood–brain barrier and acts as a surrogate[when defined as?] for dopamine, not affecting endogenous intracellular dopamine. For this reason, and the fact that it has little or no affinity for adrenaline receptors, pemoline has minimal sympathomimetic side effects such as: dry mouth, reduction in appetite, high blood pressure, increased heart rate, constriction of smooth muscle, cardiac stress, dilated pupils and insomnia.

So it's not a dopamine releaser, and neither a reuptake inhibitor. Instead it acts as a surrogate, so a substitute for dopamine?

Before even starting Pemoline I did a lot of research on what happened. From going to peer reviews and opinions from magazines, it sounds like there were more politics involved than actual health-related based data. Liver toxicity cases were very few compared to how many people actually used the drug and is believed to be overstated. Most of the cases that actually got liver issues might have also had other conditions, so it likely wasn't just Pemoline.

But yes, I am doing regular blood checks, and so far nothing abnormal

 

[defectiveforce]

Ref to drugs.com on pemoline for future reference - https://www.drugs.com/comments/pemoline/for-attention-deficit-disorder.html

It's surprising to see this many positive reviews from people that used it in the past (9.8/10 with 15 ratings). People really hype it up as this super ADHD drug, but I don't feel the same way (yet). Wonder how much of it is nostalgia and the brain making past memories appear nicer :D

There's this overview here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/pemoline

One entry compares it to amphetamines, but states its mechanism of action is DAT inhibition which doesn't look like it's the case:

6.06.6.2.2 Pemoline and selegiline​

Pemoline, 9, is similar in its pharmacology to amphetamine but is a milder stimulant with less potent sympathomimetic properties, a slower onset of action, and a long half-life (12–16 h). Its primary mechanism of action is DAT inhibition.


It's a shame it got pulled so we don't have any modern studies on it. Makes it very hard to find some proper data on how it affects cognition, learning, and how well it actually treats ADHD.
I wonder if it's similar to modafinil where it keeps me awake, but not sure if it's actually helping with concentration (modafinil did nothing for me besides making me bright awake)

Maybe better to look into more mordern research chemicals that are similar to Pemoline for information

 

[Xorkoth]

It got pulled because of liver toxicity.

I haven't heard of Cyclazodone before but it looks interesting. Do you have any comparisons to other stimulants? I don't have experience with amphetamines at all and can really only compare it to methylphenidate, but I'm curious to hear how it stacks up against other things (and against MPH as well)

It's substantially less recreational than amphetamines or even methylphenidate, but it also has less side effects. it's a quite good functional stimulant, and lasts a good 8-10 hours. Not a lot of compulsion to redose. It is also a little bit recreational.

 

[defectiveforce]

I’m just going to update this thread whenever there is something worth putting here, so that future googlers have a bit of content

I read through some previous Cylert (brandname in the US) data and the dosage used for ADHD was usually at:

Maintenance dose: May increase by 18.75 mg a day at one week intervals, up to a maximum of 112.5 mg/day. The effective dose range is 56.25 to 75 mg for most patients

Most frequently pills with 37.5mg were used as starting point for ADHD. In contrast, I have never taken that amount and usually dibbled around with 10mg - 20mg once to twice daily (to counter the short half-life)

I increased to 30mg for trial with the goal to go up to 40mg to hit that 37.5mg point, and 30mg was already a completely different experience. 10-20mg felt more like it kept me awake and made me a bit more energetic, 30mg felt more like a functional drug. This is of probably just honeymoon phase form upping my dosage, but I was a task monster going through work and having fun. I had 2 very productive days, and actually felt like I WANT to do more work.

Increasing the dosage also meant that the crash I get in the evening got worse. I felt like my entire body is exhausted and didn’t want to do anything besides laying on the sofa and watching TV. Couldn‘t get myself to do any kind of chores.

As usual, I re-dosed around 3pm so that I have effects until the evening and that turned out to be a bad idea. I felt twitchy and a bit later had racing thoughts. Then felt that my heartbeat was stronger and faster than usual and noticed that my blood pressure shot up to 143/87mmHg which is classified as Hypertension Stage 1. Eventually went down to 131/78mmHg 3 hours later but was a unpleasant experience. (I also take Guanfacine which IS a blood pressure medication so seeing hypertension was a bit bizarre)

The next day I took only 30mg without re-dosing, and BP stayed at around 127/84

Odd because wikipedia says:

For this reason, and the fact that it has little or no affinity for adrenaline receptors, pemoline has minimal sympathomimetic side effects such as: dry mouth, reduction in appetite, high blood pressure, increased heart rate, constriction of smooth muscle, cardiac stress, dilated pupils and insomnia.

I take NAC in the evening on days I take stimulants, but that shouldn’t have any interactions with the drug.

Going to give my body some time to get used to 30mg before adjusting again

 

[plumbus-nine]

It got pulled because of liver toxicity.

Yeah, but was it really so bad? If I remember correctly it were just a few cases with it being widely used - of course, precaution is better than risking your liver but I have to think of e.g. kava-kava in the EU, which too got banned because of liver toxicity whilst the plant sees long-term use in natives without any damage and there's speculation that big pharma messed something up with that particular kava extract.

Increasing the dosage also meant that the crash I get in the evening got worse. I felt like my entire body is exhausted and didn’t want to do anything besides laying on the sofa and watching TV. Couldn‘t get myself to do any kind of chores.

That's quite a bummer - I was hoping of pemoline being more similar to a less serotonergic variant of 4,4'-dimethylaminorex (the parent structures of aminorex and pemoline are pretty similar), which didn't cause much rebound or transmitter depletion even with repeated use. Its half life of maybe 16h will have added to this but then I guess it will be primarily MAOI effects. Just weird that I didn't get any of the adverse effects associated with MAOIs - unfortunately some people died off it but this was poly use afaik. A NDRI/RA version of it would be great news for many ADHD people.

Thanks for reporting tho, reports about this drugs are exceedingly rare.

 

[屍鬼s]

Yes, I take Concerta 54mg and pemoline 30mg daily. The combination of these two gives me very high levels. But I don't feel any particular euphoria, I simply feel that they increase my ability to process tasks and accuracy. In my country adderall is illegal. I am hoping to take it fast after seeing the reviews of it in other countries.