Misc Paws from ghb/other gaba-b substances

[Albstr1403]

hi all,

I spent 2 years taking ghb nightly until I developed severe anxiety, depression, and anhedonia.

After stopping due to the side effects, they never went away and I developed many physical symptoms similar to how people describe really bad benzo withdrawal.

It’s been about 7 months, and I feel the anxiety/anhedonia/depression is only about 30% better. Lots of my physical withdrawal symptoms dissipated but some persist daily.

I couldn’t find many stories of others on the subject, and not much research exists on this which is why im asking but.. has anyone else developed paws like symptoms from long term use of gaba-b gabaergics like ghb\phenibut? If so, how was your recovery like/how long did it take you to feel close to normal?

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, abuse of GABA-B agonists definitely causes severe dependence and resulting PAWS. I think it's fairly common actually, especially from GHB. It doesn't seem quite as bad as with GABA-A ligands, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad, only that GABA-A dependence is really bad.

I hope you find some relief soon and are able to reach homeostasis again.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Possibly comes the PAWS less from GABA-B but GHB's activity at its own receptor, which causes glutamate release and thus in rebound lack of glutamate.

My one-catch-for-all recommendation for PAWS is memantine, it's not magic unfortunately but among the best pharmacy can offer today.

And, welcome to bluelight!

 

[Albstr1403]

Yeah, abuse of GABA-B agonists definitely causes severe dependence and resulting PAWS. I think it's fairly common actually, especially from GHB. It doesn't seem quite as bad as with GABA-A ligands, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad, only that GABA-A dependence is really bad.

I hope you find some relief soon and are able to reach homeostasis again.

Thanks

 

[Albstr1403]

Possibly comes the PAWS less from GABA-B but GHB's activity at its own receptor, which causes glutamate release and thus in rebound lack of glutamate.

My one-catch-for-all recommendation for PAWS is memantine, it's not magic unfortunately but among the best pharmacy can offer today.

And, welcome to bluelight!

Thanks for the recommendation and the welcome !

 

[negrogesic]

I'm in the process of quiting phenibut and my withdrawal symptoms consist exactly of those three symptoms: anxiety, depression and anhedonia.

I have been on it for years and feel like I have a long road ahead of me because of it.

You might consider giving homotaurine a try as a means to upregulate your GABA-B system. It is a very low efficacy GABA-B partial agonist, essentially making it an antagonist. May potentially be of direct usefulness in treating GABA-B agonist PAWS. I actually bought some myself but am waiting till i am off of phenibut before trying it. It is readily available, I know I would try to see if it would help if I was in your situation. In fact I will by in your situation. That's why I got it.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I'm in the process of quiting phenibut and my withdrawal symptoms consist exactly of those three symptoms: anxiety, depression and anhedonia.

I get this + restlessness, diarrhea and cold shivers as withdrawal from pregabalin. It is pretty close to an opioid/narcotic w/d but somewhat different, less lethargy but differences are insignificant. Have no solution yet, I plan to get memantine again, it helped me a ton with quitting morphine.

Wikipedia says homotaurine is a GABA-A agonist and GABA-B antagonist. Interesting chemical, maybe it helps with pregabalin as well?

 

[Albstr1403]

I'm in the process of quiting phenibut and my withdrawal symptoms consist exactly of those three symptoms: anxiety, depression and anhedonia.

I have been on it for years and feel like I have a long road ahead of me because of it.

You might consider giving homotaurine a try as a means to upregulate your GABA-B system. It is a very low efficacy GABA-B partial agonist, essentially making it an antagonist. May potentially be of direct usefulness in treating GABA-B agonist PAWS. I actually bought some myself but am waiting till i am off of phenibut before trying it. It is readily available, I know I would try to see if it would help if I was in your situation. In fact I will by in your situation. That's why I got it.

feel for you. Hope you don’t get drawn out PAWS but if you do, know the first few months feel like living in some cruel purgatory but it gets better.. very slowly though lmao.

I’ve tried homotaurine and it just gives me really bad anxiety the next day. Same thing with magnesium.
Any supplement/substance that has any kind of effect on gaba/glutamate gives me the same effect of a beer (feel good day of but horrible the next few days) so I’ve been staying clear. Even chamomile tea D’s me over lmao.

The only thing that had given relief is prn hydroxyzine (makes me sleepy but has been a godsend) and Prozac (couldn’t have made it through the looping doom thoughts without this, but want to taper off eventually).

Lmk how your journey goes or if you need someone to talk to a month or two out

 

[negrogesic]

feel for you. Hope you don’t get drawn out PAWS but if you do, know the first few months feel like living in some cruel purgatory but it gets better.. very slowly though lmao.

I’ve tried homotaurine and it just gives me really bad anxiety the next day. Same thing with magnesium.
Any supplement/substance that has any kind of effect on gaba/glutamate gives me the same effect of a beer (feel good day of but horrible the next few days) so I’ve been staying clear. Even chamomile tea D’s me over lmao.

The only thing that had given relief is prn hydroxyzine (makes me sleepy but has been a godsend) and Prozac (couldn’t have made it through the looping doom thoughts without this, but want to taper off eventually).

Lmk how your journey goes or if you need someone to talk to a month or two out

Interesting, can you describe the effect that homotaurine had as a whole? What dose did you take?

I've haven't taken it yet, but admittedly every GABAergic supplement i have ever taken ended up making things worse in the long run (even if it had an initial benefit). In fact large doses of taurine itself has this effect (next day rebound anxiety). Was hoping the low efficacy partial activation/antagonistic effect would have an upregulate.

My phenibut habit started after i tapered off of a large pregabalin habit and switched to gabapentin (which i then also tapered off of and quit). After stopping the gabapentin I felt mostly fine during the day, but could not sleep at all. This went on for months, sleeping only for 1-3.5 hours a nights, with some nights no sleep at all. After literal months of this intractable insomnia i gave up and said fuck it, I'm going to get some phenibut. That was six years ago. I recently made a sizable decrease in my phenibut dose (dropping 25% from 3.9g to 2.9g, with some baclofen), but i have a long road ahead of me. For me I think worse than the anxiety is the depression. I have been through horrific benzo withdrawal, so the anxiety from this is in comparison far less prominent. But on the flip side, with these GABA-B agonists, given the relative lack of the disorienting/delusional anxiety symptoms that occur during benzodiazepine withdrawal, the focus shifts towards feelings of depression (in severe benzo withdrawal one is simply too busy feeling terrified to be that depressed).

 

[Albstr1403]

Interesting, can you describe the effect that homotaurine had as a whole? What dose did you take?

I've haven't taken it yet, but admittedly every GABAergic supplement i have ever taken ended up making things worse in the long run (even if it had an initial benefit). In fact large doses of taurine itself has this effect (next day rebound anxiety). Was hoping the low efficacy partial activation/antagonistic effect would have an upregulate.

My phenibut habit started after i tapered off of a large pregabalin habit and switched to gabapentin (which i then also tapered off of and quit). After stopping the gabapentin I felt mostly fine during the day, but could not sleep at all. This went on for months, sleeping only for 1-3.5 hours a nights, with some nights no sleep at all. After literal months of this intractable insomnia i gave up and said fuck it, I'm going to get some phenibut. That was six years ago. I recently made a sizable decrease in my phenibut dose (dropping 25% from 3.9g to 2.9g, with some baclofen), but i have a long road ahead of me. For me I think worse than the anxiety is the depression. I have been through horrific benzo withdrawal, so the anxiety from this is in comparison far less prominent. But on the flip side, with these GABA-B agonists, given the relative lack of the disorienting/delusional anxiety symptoms that occur during benzodiazepine withdrawal, the focus shifts towards feelings of depression (in severe benzo withdrawal one is simply too busy feeling terrified to be that depressed).

Forgot the dosage but it was an amount close to what others were taking on Reddit/ nothing too crazy. It just made me feel blah and empty with with a side of anhedonia instead of the anxiety and depression .Then the next day I would always pay for it with rebound anxiety which messed me up for a few days.

If you get sleeping problems again when you make the jump ,ask your doc for hydroxyzine. It really helps without messing with gaba.

 

[Twilight222]

hi all,

I spent 2 years taking ghb nightly until I developed severe anxiety, depression, and anhedonia.

After stopping due to the side effects, they never went away and I developed many physical symptoms similar to how people describe really bad benzo withdrawal.

It’s been about 7 months, and I feel the anxiety/anhedonia/depression is only about 30% better. Lots of my physical withdrawal symptoms dissipated but some persist daily.

I couldn’t find many stories of others on the subject, and not much research exists on this which is why im asking but.. has anyone else developed paws like symptoms from long term use of gaba-b gabaergics like ghb\phenibut? If so, how was your recovery like/how long did it take you to feel close to normal?

I definitely feel for you. I had a 4 year love affair with G ending in psychosis and seizures and my heart goes out to you. The PAWS is brutal. I would HIGHLY suggest an insane exercise/cardio routine and super clean diet. I know that sounds like a boring and cliche suggestion, but it is what healed my brain.