Kratom Opiates and Kratom

[RSin]

Hey everyone sorry it's been a looooong time since I been on this site but I really really need your guys help who are very familiar with Kratom and also Opiates(i.e Heroin).. So here's what's up..

SWIM and SWIMS GF are heavily addicted to opiates.. namely H. SWIM has been battling addiction for over 10 years now, SWIM'S GF has been addicted for about 6-7 months now, but previously had an addiction to heroin when she was 22(she's now 35) so she just recently relapsed. So with that said. We are looking for anything to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Mostly our symptoms are your run of the mill issues. Like Nausea, stomach cramps, hot/cold sweats, restless legs, major depression, bad anxiety, and bordering violent outbursts, etc etc. If you've ever been addicted to H you know what I am talking about. So anyways we are looking into Kratom as a way of helping us thru the first 5 to 7 days or so. Recently I bought 60 capsule of Red Nano Trd Maegn da. The smokeshop owner swore they were his best and honestly SWIM took 4 to start.. no help at all.. I ended up taking about 14 thought the night and it barely help at all. Same pretty much went for SWIM's GF.. so we are looking for any advice on any other type/strain/brand we should use. We really want to get clean and we know this isn't gonna completely make us well we need something to help take the edge off.. also once we do find one and quit after 24hrs we will be taking suboxone theres no problem mixing that with Kratom is there? SWIM really really appreciates any advice, tips, etc. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long thread.

-RSin

 

[ScrapTrap]

Just joined to post here since I've had (sadly) plenty of experience kicking H.

I initially used high doses of kratom, 8-12g every 4 hours wasn't uncommon for the first 5 days or so. That may be why you didnt get relief, your capsules are likely 500mg(?) each so taking average doses for non tolerant users won't touch you.

Are you using kratom just to cover you until you can take subs? Or are you trying to just use kratom and have the subs as a backup?

I can't comment on taking suboxone after kratom, I would assume it's best to wait some time so you don't throw yourself into precipitated WDs. I went the suboxone route once, but ended up back on H because the WDs were so damn long it was exhausting. I totally get using it though, just didn't work for me.

Magnesium glycinate will help relax your muscles/body and ease the RLS, I use it in 200mg doses during the day and 400mg at night during WD.

Loperamide (imodium) helps a ton with the GI discomfort and diarrhea in 2-8mg doses in my experience. You probably won't need it since you have kratom and subs.

Forcing yourself to exercise is crucial, no matter how sick you feel. Even light stuff like 10mins of yoga/stretching a few times a day will help greatly. Also, more of a mental thing for me but I just plan on not sleeping for a couple nights, if it happens great but if not I'm fine with it. No point in stressing if it's not gonna happen

Hopefully this stuff helps, it's rough those first few days but gets better if ya stick with it.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey everyone sorry it's been a looooong time since I been on this site but I really really need your guys help who are very familiar with Kratom and also Opiates(i.e Heroin).. So here's what's up..

SWIM and SWIMS GF are heavily addicted to opiates.. namely H. SWIM has been battling addiction for over 10 years now, SWIM'S GF has been addicted for about 6-7 months now, but previously had an addiction to heroin when she was 22(she's now 35) so she just recently relapsed. So with that said. We are looking for anything to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Mostly our symptoms are your run of the mill issues. Like Nausea, stomach cramps, hot/cold sweats, restless legs, major depression, bad anxiety, and bordering violent outbursts, etc etc. If you've ever been addicted to H you know what I am talking about. So anyways we are looking into Kratom as a way of helping us thru the first 5 to 7 days or so. Recently I bought 60 capsule of Red Nano Trd Maegn da. The smokeshop owner swore they were his best and honestly SWIM took 4 to start.. no help at all.. I ended up taking about 14 thought the night and it barely help at all. Same pretty much went for SWIM's GF.. so we are looking for any advice on any other type/strain/brand we should use. We really want to get clean and we know this isn't gonna completely make us well we need something to help take the edge off.. also once we do find one and quit after 24hrs we will be taking suboxone theres no problem mixing that with Kratom is there? SWIM really really appreciates any advice, tips, etc. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long thread.

-RSin

First of all we don't SWIM here, it doesn't protect you and is annoying to read (and type) so we don't allow it. Not a big deal, just FYI.

Now to you question... you need to find a better source of kratom. The capsules contain less than a gram each, and especially when you're addicted to opiates, a few grams is not enough. Honestly, 4 grams is a dose that someone who has no opiate experience would take. Kratom from head shops is notoriously poor quality usually, though it depends on the brand. And it's outrageously overpriced, usually. We can't talk about where to get anything but given it's legal, I'll just say that the Internet is your friend. You can get it for many times cheaper, and a little searching will yield the best sources.

I would plan to need to take 8 to 10 grams at once (which would be probably anywhere from 12 to 20 of those capsules you bought), and need to redose every few hours. A good green or white is preferrable for me, personally, over red.

Also note that kratom is an opioid to, so you will get addicted to it. Withdrawal is not as bad as heroin, by any means, though I find the restlessness worse from heavy kratom addiction. If you use it, even heavily, for 7 days, you'll probably be okay, though you'll probably experience some withdrawal from it.

I can't comment on taking suboxone after kratom, I would assume it's best to wait some time so you don't throw yourself into precipitated WDs

Kratom, being a partial agonist like bupe is, will be completely substituted with bupe, so it won't cause PWD. That has been my experience and the experience of everyone I know. I an take bupe right after taking kratom, when addicted to kratom specifically, and it's fine.

 

[RSin]

First of all we don't SWIM here, it doesn't protect you and is annoying to read (and type) so we don't allow it. Not a big deal, just FYI.

Now to you question... you need to find a better source of kratom. The capsules contain less than a gram each, and especially when you're addicted to opiates, a few grams is not enough. Honestly, 4 grams is a dose that someone who has no opiate experience would take. Kratom from head shops is notoriously poor quality usually, though it depends on the brand. And it's outrageously overpriced, usually. We can't talk about where to get anything but given it's legal, I'll just say that the Internet is your friend. You can get it for many times cheaper, and a little searching will yield the best sources.

I would plan to need to take 8 to 10 grams at once (which would be probably anywhere from 12 to 20 of those capsules you bought), and need to redose every few hours. A good green or white is preferrable for me, personally, over red.

Also note that kratom is an opioid to, so you will get addicted to it. Withdrawal is not as bad as heroin, by any means, though I find the restlessness worse from heavy kratom addiction. If you use it, even heavily, for 7 days, you'll probably be okay, though you'll probably experience some withdrawal from it.



Kratom, being a partial agonist like bupe is, will be completely substituted with bupe, so it won't cause PWD. That has been my experience and the experience of everyone I know. I an take bupe right after taking kratom, when addicted to kratom specifically, and it's fine.

Thanks very much for the info from you and everyone else. Sorry about the SWIM it's been so long since I've used this forum I wasn't sure if it was still mandatory to use. Your reply was very helpful and I very much appreciate it.

 

[RSin]

Just joined to post here since I've had (sadly) plenty of experience kicking H.

I initially used high doses of kratom, 8-12g every 4 hours wasn't uncommon for the first 5 days or so. That may be why you didnt get relief, your capsules are likely 500mg(?) each so taking average doses for non tolerant users won't touch you.

Are you using kratom just to cover you until you can take subs? Or are you trying to just use kratom and have the subs as a backup?

I can't comment on taking suboxone after kratom, I would assume it's best to wait some time so you don't throw yourself into precipitated WDs. I went the suboxone route once, but ended up back on H because the WDs were so damn long it was exhausting. I totally get using it though, just didn't work for me.

Magnesium glycinate will help relax your muscles/body and ease the RLS, I use it in 200mg doses during the day and 400mg at night during WD.

Loperamide (imodium) helps a ton with the GI discomfort and diarrhea in 2-8mg doses in my experience. You probably won't need it since you have kratom and subs.

Forcing yourself to exercise is crucial, no matter how sick you feel. Even light stuff like 10mins of yoga/stretching a few times a day will help greatly. Also, more of a mental thing for me but I just plan on not sleeping for a couple nights, if it happens great but if not I'm fine with it. No point in stressing if it's not gonna happen

Hopefully this stuff helps, it's rough those first few days but gets better if ya stick with it.

Thanks for the info bruh. It is very helpful and much appreciated.

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks very much for the info from you and everyone else. Sorry about the SWIM it's been so long since I've used this forum I wasn't sure if it was still mandatory to use. Your reply was very helpful and I very much appreciate it.

No worries. SWIM was never encouraged here, though at one point a lot of people were using it anyway. It was drugs-forum that created, popularized and required SWIM for a time. Though at some point even they said "please stop using this"

 

[ScrapTrap]

Thanks for the info Xorkoth, good stuff to know for the future.

Also no problem RSin happy to help! Sending good vibes your way

 

[Xorkoth]

OP already realizes that, he thought it might have been required, due to how it used to be required by other forums or you could get banned.

 

[RUC4]

Hey everyone sorry it's been a looooong time since I been on this site but I really really need your guys help who are very familiar with Kratom and also Opiates(i.e Heroin).. So here's what's up..

SWIM and SWIMS GF are heavily addicted to opiates.. namely H. SWIM has been battling addiction for over 10 years now, SWIM'S GF has been addicted for about 6-7 months now, but previously had an addiction to heroin when she was 22(she's now 35) so she just recently relapsed. So with that said. We are looking for anything to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Mostly our symptoms are your run of the mill issues. Like Nausea, stomach cramps, hot/cold sweats, restless legs, major depression, bad anxiety, and bordering violent outbursts, etc etc. If you've ever been addicted to H you know what I am talking about. So anyways we are looking into Kratom as a way of helping us thru the first 5 to 7 days or so. Recently I bought 60 capsule of Red Nano Trd Maegn da. The smokeshop owner swore they were his best and honestly SWIM took 4 to start.. no help at all.. I ended up taking about 14 thought the night and it barely help at all. Same pretty much went for SWIM's GF.. so we are looking for any advice on any other type/strain/brand we should use. We really want to get clean and we know this isn't gonna completely make us well we need something to help take the edge off.. also once we do find one and quit after 24hrs we will be taking suboxone theres no problem mixing that with Kratom is there? SWIM really really appreciates any advice, tips, etc. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long thread.

-RSin

fyi, you don't have to say SWIM or whatever here. I know other sites have rules like that. not here.

also, I would recommend red Bali powder kratom. the capsules are usually about 1/2 a gram, so you'd need a lot. I would start with a tablespoon (not teaspoon) of red Bali powder kratom. mix it with water and stir and drink. follow with water and a little food. if you're not hungry, just a banana or something. if you're taking subs, you probably won't need kratom. I don't know about any interactions, I've personally never combined them. personally, I would stick with kratom to kick the habit. take it for a few weeks. 2 or 3 times a day. subs are addicting. I know people who got off opiates by taking subs and were still on them 2 years later. if you truly want to stop all opiates, still with kratom. it will work. it's worked miracles for A LOT of people getting off H.

good luck

 

[Las Veghost grower]

When I’m wding from H I don’t bother with leaf , extracts all day

 

[RC-Lover123]

Capsuled Kratom is no good, you need quality "red" or "green" Kratom powder, with an emphasis on quality! Bali, Borneo, MaengDa, Green Malay and all that is just marketing bullshit, it all comes from a region around Pontianak and the Kapuas River in Borneo and there is only one type of Kratom leaf. The "white" is dried and treated differently but all three colors are the same leaf. The alkaloid content varies widely, many powders are rubbish. 10grams of quality powder washed down with water should help with Heroin WDs.

I would rather take loperamide, though, 20-30mg take away the worst symptoms and can be easily tapered as the pills have no or little effect on your brain. A few weeks ago I was in absolutely terrible morphine WDs and 30mg of loperamide got me out of that hell within two hours. Tapered by one pill a day without issues and became clean for now with limited pain.

 

[Nucynta_80]

About every other day lately, Ive been taking a mere 2 grams of powered red Kratom about 1-2 hours after my Belbuca film dissolves (low-dose bupe that’s prescribed for pain) and it feels GREAT! These two mix marvelously IMO! I would absolutely say the anti-depressant properties of both are increased in combo! I only use Kratom maybe 3-4 times a week, so no tolerance……yet .

 

[plumbus-nine]

Capsuled Kratom is no good, you need quality "red" or "green" Kratom powder, with an emphasis on quality! Bali, Borneo, MaengDa, Green Malay and all that is just marketing bullshit, it all comes from a region around Pontianak and the Kapuas River in Borneo and there is only one type of Kratom leaf. The "white" is dried and treated differently but all three colors are the same leaf. The alkaloid content varies widely, many powders are rubbish. 10grams of quality powder washed down with water should help with Heroin WDs.

Agreed, capsuled Kratom is just overpriced. If you have problems swallowing the powder, get yourself a capsule machine and some empty gelcaps from that big four letters auction house and make your own capsules.

I would rather take loperamide, though, 20-30mg take away the worst symptoms and can be easily tapered as the pills have no or little effect on your brain. A few weeks ago I was in absolutely terrible morphine WDs and 30mg of loperamide got me out of that hell within two hours. Tapered by one pill a day without issues and became clean for now with limited pain.

Lope is actually a centrally active opioid, just that in normal dosages it gets pumped out of the brain by a protein called p-Gp which becomes saturated anywhere around 20? 30? 50? mg's and lope also has some dangerous effects on the heart when dosed too high. It has helped many but it's good to know what it actually is and I'd recommend trying kratom first.

About every other day lately, Ive been taking a mere 2 grams of powered red Kratom about 1-2 hours after my Belbuca film dissolves (low-dose bupe that’s prescribed for pain) and it feels GREAT! These two mix marvelously IMO! I would absolutely say the anti-depressant properties of both are increased in combo! I only use Kratom maybe 3-4 times a week, so no tolerance……yet .

Interesting! What's your bupe dosage?

 

[RC-Lover123]

Kratom will just get opiate users hooked on Kratom bcause it is actually a pretty nice opioid itself. Without tolerance, high dose quality Kratom feels just like 20mg of Oxycodone to me, very nice indeed. People who say that Kratom is harmless and super weak don't have a clue, Mitragynine is a potent little fucker without tolerance to stronger opiates.

Loperamide is a different beast, I am quite sure that 20mg are NOT centrally acting. You need to overwhelm the P-Glycoprotein transport system with very high dosages to get it into the brain. I know for sure that I could not taper the Kratom after morphine use, I would simply keep using the Kratom as you are still on active opioids. I could totally taper the loperamide as it doesn't do anything for your brain at 20mg, it just keeps your body alive while the brain withdraws. I know that some people take 100mg or more of the loperamide and then get hooked on that. That is idiotic and likely dangerous behavior. Loperamide is a powerful withdrawal tool, needs to be used sensibly, it is not a methadone or suboxone replacement.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey everyone sorry it's been a looooong time since I been on this site but I really really need your guys help who are very familiar with Kratom and also Opiates(i.e Heroin).. So here's what's up..

SWIM and SWIMS GF are heavily addicted to opiates.. namely H. SWIM has been battling addiction for over 10 years now, SWIM'S GF has been addicted for about 6-7 months now, but previously had an addiction to heroin when she was 22(she's now 35) so she just recently relapsed. So with that said. We are looking for anything to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Mostly our symptoms are your run of the mill issues. Like Nausea, stomach cramps, hot/cold sweats, restless legs, major depression, bad anxiety, and bordering violent outbursts, etc etc. If you've ever been addicted to H you know what I am talking about. So anyways we are looking into Kratom as a way of helping us thru the first 5 to 7 days or so. Recently I bought 60 capsule of Red Nano Trd Maegn da. The smokeshop owner swore they were his best and honestly SWIM took 4 to start.. no help at all.. I ended up taking about 14 thought the night and it barely help at all. Same pretty much went for SWIM's GF.. so we are looking for any advice on any other type/strain/brand we should use. We really want to get clean and we know this isn't gonna completely make us well we need something to help take the edge off.. also once we do find one and quit after 24hrs we will be taking suboxone theres no problem mixing that with Kratom is there? SWIM really really appreciates any advice, tips, etc. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long thread.

-RSin

Hey man. I know this is a shitty situation, but your attitude and your head are on straight. You're both there for each other and trying to make your lives better and I have nothing but love and respect for that. I'll give you the best advice I can. Firstly, I would encourage you to do some light research around the forums, as I've discussed this very topic hundreds of times with other folks and you might be able to get some answers faster.

With the current dope out there on the street. mainly Fentanyl and other strong synthetics, I find it unlikely that something like Kratom will be strong enough to make a significant dent in your withdrawal symptoms. Mitragynine is the active chemical (it's an Opioid) compound found in Kratom, analogous to how Morphine is the active constituent of Opium poppy. Mitragynine is a weak Opioid comparable to Codeine in its potency. It's just not enough to really handle a powerful Opioid dependency. If you are trying to use Opioids to taper, I have to say you're probably better off just using your dope to taper for a few days. Acquire some and determine the potency and do your best to do a taper over the course of a few days.

I am a major proponent of Gabapentinoids in treating Opioid withdrawal. I have personal experience and my research and conversations with colleagues has only strengthened my belief in their usage. The Gabapentinoids are a class of drugs including the eponymous Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Prebabalin (Lyrica). I can't say where to get them obviously, but these things are certainly "available" in many places, not to mention, many prescribers are now coming around and seeing their usefulness. If you are working with a doctor, perhaps ask them. I'm not implying that you should start taking them long-term. The best way to use them is for the worst part of your withdrawal, like 4-5 days max. Accordingly, tolerance to Gabapapentinoids tends to develop quite quickly and many, myself included, have found that their usefulness drops off severely after day 4. If you're interested, I'm happy to discuss dosage, usage and so on.

Clonidine (Catapres) is a blood pressure medicine. It is highly reputable for its effects upon Opioid withdrawal and I always recommend it. Blood pressure tends to rise during Opioid withdrawal,. which contributes to the feelings of overall tension and malaise. Clonidine will help to lower the blood pressure, making you feel more comfortable. It also helps greatly with insomnia. The proper dosage is usally 0.2mg Clonidine every 4-6 hours. If you still find that your heart is pounding, you can potentially move up to 0.3mg Clonidine, however, be aware that the orthostatic hypotensive effects of the drug can become present at higher dosages, so be careful when getting up from sitting or laying down.

My best advice for you personally would be to acquire a couple of bundles/grams for yourselves. Try your best to ascertain the relative dosage of your dope and then try to design a taper based on this. Acquire some of these other comfort medications as you're able. Make a plan to spend 4-5 days withdrawing, using your medications and getting through the very worst of it. We will be here to help you every step of the way so keep your eyes on the prize.