Anybody has any information regarding can these substances be used in small doses as antidepressants? I am not interested in recreational use of these substances and am searching good substitution for ketamine/MXE as an antidepressant. Is the afterglow felt after the dose of these novel drugs in the morning, have they any significant antidepressant action?
Novel dissociatives as antidepressants (Ephenidine, diphenidine, methoxphenidine)
- Thread starter Renald
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vortech
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There are many people who use dissociatives to modulate and take control of their cycles. People who use these drugs correctly receive benefits that no other class of drugs can achieve by lifting them out of depression, ruts, bad habits/lifestyle choices etc. but it is definitely not as simple as just taking a dose and going about your life. It requires real life changes, and many people's lifestyles or biochemistry will simply not work well with this class of drugs. With that said, being properly educated on how to use these tools will greatly increase your chances of being able to use them effectively to improve the quality of your life.
Some people find help in taking it once or a few times a month in a large enough dose to achieve a 'hole'. It is like a reset button that lifts the fog and clears the path. Other people find help in low doses throughout the day when they need an extra bit of inspiration, but tolerance prevents this use case from being useful as a long-term medication in this manner. That is why it must be cycled. At the most extreme end of practical use in my experience is a yin-yang cycle of 1:1 days on to off. But even that cycle will require breaks to keep the magic. you can do 1 day on 1 day off, or 3 days on 3 days off, whatever you find works to increase your Overall Balance.
I am talking about this class of drugs in general. The novel ones have their own color, different envelopes, and less research data overall, so experiment at your own risk, but the primary action between the novel ones and the classics such as ketamine and MXE are rooted in many common effects.
In conclusion, if you decide to experiment, keep your eye on the big picture and figure if it can fit into your life to make it better without disrupting things around you.
Some people find help in taking it once or a few times a month in a large enough dose to achieve a 'hole'. It is like a reset button that lifts the fog and clears the path. Other people find help in low doses throughout the day when they need an extra bit of inspiration, but tolerance prevents this use case from being useful as a long-term medication in this manner. That is why it must be cycled. At the most extreme end of practical use in my experience is a yin-yang cycle of 1:1 days on to off. But even that cycle will require breaks to keep the magic. you can do 1 day on 1 day off, or 3 days on 3 days off, whatever you find works to increase your Overall Balance.
I am talking about this class of drugs in general. The novel ones have their own color, different envelopes, and less research data overall, so experiment at your own risk, but the primary action between the novel ones and the classics such as ketamine and MXE are rooted in many common effects.
In conclusion, if you decide to experiment, keep your eye on the big picture and figure if it can fit into your life to make it better without disrupting things around you.
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I had good results with ketamine and MXE with extra low 1-2 times a week dosages. It was sufficient for me to have antidepressant effects from 15-25 mg of i.m./s.c. ketamine or about 5 mg of i.m./s.c. MXE per hour, my session usually lasted about 2-3 hours. After this I had several days or even a week of hypomania, no anxiety, no panic attacks and depression. This lasted for several months, now I cant get ketamine/MXE. Probably, I found a loophole in our laws and due to ketamine being the same schedule as benzos in our country, I can write a prescription for it for myself, but I cant use it outside a hospital. Not very good idea, because all the anesthesiologists I asked about this kind of ketamine usage, do not know how to do this.
At this moment I am trying ephenidine. After yesterday allergy test today I tested about 10-15 mg of the preparation. Seems it is a threshold level for me, because I feel very slight dissociation, like I felt from extremely small MXE dose. Will continue to work with this substance.
At this moment I am trying ephenidine. After yesterday allergy test today I tested about 10-15 mg of the preparation. Seems it is a threshold level for me, because I feel very slight dissociation, like I felt from extremely small MXE dose. Will continue to work with this substance.
I have tried ephenidine and diphenidine at very low doses (20 mg and lower), and every time I try them, I have increased anxiety and some kind of pre-panic state, sometimes going into full panic. Recently I have found binding profiles of diphenidine and MXP, and seems both lack stimulating effects.
Have you ever felt increased anxiety or stimulation at such low doses of diphenidine/ephenidine?
Have you ever felt increased anxiety or stimulation at such low doses of diphenidine/ephenidine?
Solipsis
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They used to think that the NMDA antagonism on its own was responsible for most of ketamine's antidepressant action but now it appears that instead it's rather one isomer of the 3' and or 4' hydroxy metabolites that IIRC has unusual serotonergic influence or affects LTP in some way.
They give you low doses anyway so it's not really the dissociative effect that you would compare to that of other dissociatives like pure NMDA antagonists that you suggest using.
In any case, since other dissociatives don't have a super high chance of producing a similar metabolite, O-PCM or MXE maybe, their mood enhancing abilities from either NMDA antagonism or serotonin reuptake inhibition aren't quite as special or suitable to use as anti-depressant in the same way that you wouln't responsibly use stims with SRI action for it. Other dissociatives like 3-MeO-PCP aren't even that much of an SRI like MXE is...
In my opinion, dissociatives can have potential by merely breaking the cycle of ruminating thought patterns that are considered a factor in depression... by just blanking your mind, you can gain a slight reset which can be relieving. However on the long-term you should be cautious with random dissociatives because the cognitive effects and the atrophying effects may very well offset such benefits, and indeed my experience with microdosing 3-MeO-PCP shows its short-term relief which was more or less sustainable but on the long-term it wasn't doing me a lot of favors and doesn't offer lasting benefit.
So I do not recommend chronic dosing like you would an anti-depressant, but occasional use to break your depression cycle may work.
They give you low doses anyway so it's not really the dissociative effect that you would compare to that of other dissociatives like pure NMDA antagonists that you suggest using.
In any case, since other dissociatives don't have a super high chance of producing a similar metabolite, O-PCM or MXE maybe, their mood enhancing abilities from either NMDA antagonism or serotonin reuptake inhibition aren't quite as special or suitable to use as anti-depressant in the same way that you wouln't responsibly use stims with SRI action for it. Other dissociatives like 3-MeO-PCP aren't even that much of an SRI like MXE is...
In my opinion, dissociatives can have potential by merely breaking the cycle of ruminating thought patterns that are considered a factor in depression... by just blanking your mind, you can gain a slight reset which can be relieving. However on the long-term you should be cautious with random dissociatives because the cognitive effects and the atrophying effects may very well offset such benefits, and indeed my experience with microdosing 3-MeO-PCP shows its short-term relief which was more or less sustainable but on the long-term it wasn't doing me a lot of favors and doesn't offer lasting benefit.
So I do not recommend chronic dosing like you would an anti-depressant, but occasional use to break your depression cycle may work.
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Tranced
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I used them for
the same reasons and found the following:
Ephenidine - a very euphoric, motivated push. Very nice and seemed to want only healthy food.
Diphenidine - the worst thing I've tasted. Kind of like the stuff you swill your mouth at with at the dentist, for hours. Kind of coloured the experience.
MXP - a very grimy body high, sort of like my skins pilled tight. More mood dependent than ephenidine. But I love it. Makes me chatty and generally cures depression.
Unfortunately they all affected speech to the point it was obvious you were on drugs. But I liked ephenidine and MXP a lot.