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Bluelighter
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Dec 14, 2012
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Hey guys, I'd like to start lifting. From what I know, untrained muscles/the first few months have the most potential for bulking. With this in mind, I would love a bit of advice clarifying things so I make the most of my weakness. First up - what sort of rep range and number of sets do I want? Does hypertrophy equal strength or is it possible to bulk up without gaining maximum strength for the muscle size?
Will adding isolation exercises detract from my overall progress (not trying to get anything unblanaced/disproportionately large)

Next up I've got some questions on nutrition and supplements. First up, will using creatine from the get go hinder my potential? Am I better off waiting until I've reached some sort of resistance/slow down in gains?
I've already seemed to gain muscle and lose weight just by increasing my protein and reducing carbs (no resistance training) but how does glycogen and insulin work with lifting? Do I need carbs post-workout?
Does eating high calorie on training days and low calories on resting days work? Or does my body need more calories for longer?
If I will gain more muscle (not weight) by bulking in the beginning and then cycling macros once I've hit a plateau I'd be okay with doing so, but I know it's quite possible to add lean mass whilst lowering BF% (i'm wondering whether the gains are lessened)

I plan to do my workouts fasted, taking BCAA as a pre-workout, and follow my workout with a massive meal (almost all my daily food)
Here are the exercises I plan to do, though I may need to see a PT first as my posture is bad and I don't want to learn bad technique.
(Front) Squat, Deadlift, Bent-over Row (maybe progressing to supine row when I have the strength), Bench Press, Standing OHP/Military, Shrugs, Dips (when I have the strength)
Isolations I'm thinking about are neck raises (so I can build up to neck bridges) and barbell raises or high pulls because my shoulders are pitiful.
Also I may add in reverse curls if I feel my forearms are lacking.

How do I split these up? Am I best off going A B A, B A B..
5x5? 3x8-10?


Sorry if this is disjointed and demanding. Appreciate any input.
 
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Hey guys, I'd like to start lifting. From what I know, untrained muscles/the first few months have the most potential for bulking. With this in mind, I would love a bit of advice clarifying things so I make the most of my weakness. First up - what sort of rep range and number of sets do I want? Does hypertrophy equal strength or is it possible to bulk up without gaining maximum strength for the muscle size?
Will adding isolation exercises detract from my overall progress (not trying to get anything unblanaced/disproportionately large)


I'll let someone else add to this, but rule of thumb for a beginner is to keep it simple. Don't do any isolations, there's much more effective weight lifting routines for you. Even at 5'10, 195lb, 11% bf, I still don't do any isolations as I only see those type of lifts benefiting someone who is in the advance stage of body building.

You always want to lift for max weight. 3 sets x 6-10 reps at a time, the amount of reps depending what your lifting.

What you should do is focus solely on compound lifts. Search on the web for Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength Program and start reading. That's a highly recommended guide and lifting program on how to lift correctly in the gym so you see results. It'll give you a good starting point.
 
Appreciate it man, I've read a bit of starting strength and other 5x5 routines. I've also read about reverse pyramid training.
From my understanding lower reps make more strength, middle reps make bulk and higher reps cut more than bulk? What about the number of sets?

I was pretty unsure about starting with isolations, so I'll keep to just my neck.
I'm already planning on doing compound movements - my queries are more to do with how the body reacts to the exercises and nutrition.
I'm not sure what I want, and what results different things have. Do I keep the weight consistent through all the sets? Do I start heavy and decrease? Do I start light and increase the load? Do I keep the reps the same?

Is eating more protein than needed whilst maintaining a calorie deficit going to prevent my muscles from getting all they need?
I may have to do more reading and less asking. Thanks for the reply.
 
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Hey guys, I'd like to start lifting. From what I know, untrained muscles/the first few months have the most potential for bulking. With this in mind, I would love a bit of advice clarifying things so I make the most of my weakness. First up - what sort of rep range and number of sets do I want? Does hypertrophy equal strength or is it possible to bulk up without gaining maximum strength for the muscle size?
Will adding isolation exercises detract from my overall progress (not trying to get anything unblanaced/disproportionately large)

Next up I've got some questions on nutrition and supplements. First up, will using creatine from the get go hinder my potential? Am I better off waiting until I've reached some sort of resistance/slow down in gains?
I've already seemed to gain muscle and lose weight just by increasing my protein and reducing carbs (no resistance training) but how does glycogen and insulin work with lifting? Do I need carbs post-workout?
Does eating high calorie on training days and low calories on resting days work? Or does my body need more calories for longer?
If I will gain more muscle (not weight) by bulking in the beginning and then cycling macros once I've hit a plateau I'd be okay with doing so, but I know it's quite possible to add lean mass whilst lowering BF% (i'm wondering whether the gains are lessened)

I plan to do my workouts fasted, taking BCAA as a pre-workout, and follow my workout with a massive meal (almost all my daily food)
Here are the exercises I plan to do, though I may need to see a PT first as my posture is bad and I don't want to learn bad technique.
(Front) Squat, Deadlift, Bent-over Row (maybe progressing to supine row when I have the strength), Bench Press, Standing OHP/Military, Shrugs, Dips (when I have the strength)
Isolations I'm thinking about are neck raises (so I can build up to neck bridges) and barbell raises or high pulls because my shoulders are pitiful.
Also I may add in reverse curls if I feel my forearms are lacking.

How do I split these up? Am I best off going A B A, B A B..
5x5? 3x8-10?


Sorry if this is disjointed and demanding. Appreciate any input.

Regards your questions on training protocol, as previously stated stick to mostly compound exercises at the moment, 4 sets of 8-10-12 reps on all exercises to start off with, when you get used to lifting correctly maybe try 12-15 or even 20-30 reps on legs..

Record your progress, aim to slowly increase the weight over time, but don't try one rep maxes (don't get injured early on).... (it doesn't matter what everyone else is lifting)..
Record your rep ranges on each exercise, when you can easily hit 12 reps its time to up the weight slightly, your reps will go down to begin with, but then will increase so that eventually 12 becomes easy again, so its time to increase the weight, etc... Keep good form, don't cheat, you will only injure yourself... (injuries will re-occur again and again throughout your lifting career, so it is best not to get them as a beginner, as they will continually hinder progress)....

Don't miss training days.... Eat, and eat some more..!!


Genetic Freak's Diet Protocols Something I posted a while back:

1. The majority of your diet should be comprised of "whole" foods – lean proteins, grains, dairy, fruits, and vegetables. Those are foods we often call "clean." Though clean is rather subjective, I think you get the idea. Food choices are pretty open to what has the nutrients and makes you happy.

2. The energy equation holds true – to lose fat you must burn more energy than you consume and vice versa for building muscle. When changing your body, you aim to lose fat without losing lean mass, and gain lean mass without gaining too much fat alongside it.

Consider the following:

1. Flexible Meal Timing

Hitting your total caloric needs for the day is more important than when you eat those calories. It doesn't really matter if this is eating 6 meals a day or eating 2 meals a day. It also doesn't matter exactly when, either. The majority of your calories can come later in the day, spread out over the day, or at the same times every day, as long as you're hitting your totals.

The myth of "metabolic stoking" through multiple meals every couple of hours has been firmly debunked by science. The research on the topic has grown over the years.

Bellisle et al. found that when measuring 24-hour energy expenditure, there was no difference between frequent small meals or infrequent large meals.(1)

Similarly, Verboeket-van de Venne and Westerterp compared 2 meals versus 7 meals per day, and found that again, there were no differences in energy expenditure within the 24-hour period.

During the "fasted" period, there was heightened fat oxidation because of the lack of available carbohydrates, and increased carbohydrate oxidation after the first meal. Protein oxidation showed no changes with either protocol.(2)

Your body doesn't really keep a clock on calorie intake, as long as you're meeting your needs within the 24-hour period. Your muscles will not fall off with fewer meals, and neither will your metabolism take a nose-dive. Specific meal timing is a variable you can adjust to meet your goals.

For those trying to lose fat, intermittent fasting protocols where you eat more calories in a shorter time-frame, or alternate high and low calories days, can allow you to stay in a deficit easier.

The potential benefits also include higher satiety and reduced cravings. If you struggle with tiny portions every couple hours and can hold off better if you get to eat big, being flexible with your meal sizes and when you eat them may help you stick to the diet.

Intermittent fasting methods have the distinction of being considered both the newest fad and the oldest dieting strategy known to man. The good news is that it boils down to the evidence-based principle that meal timing is flexible when caloric needs are met

Eating six meals a day every two to three hours to "stoke the metabolism" and prevent a catabolic "starvation mode" is bullshit. Your metabolism doesn't work that way. Grouping your meals together or getting all your calories in smaller time frames to fit your schedule or make adherence easier won't negatively affect your muscle gains or fat loss.

............. I know this is what science tells us for now, but regular meals pre-and-post exercise might be prudent..............

Explore meal frequency and timing flexibility and add another tool in the box to help you reach your goals. (It can also make your life much damn simpler)

2. If It Fits Your Macros

Traditional bodybuilding diets pigeonhole you into specific foods you "have" to eat for success – the famous clean foods versus dirty foods debate: chicken, broccoli, and oats; oats, broccoli, and chicken. You might as well just blend them together and drink them. Eating out, socializing, and your daily routine can soon start to centralize around what you can and can't eat.

At a physiological level your body can't really tell the difference between "types" of food. A carb is a carb. Protein is protein. Fat is fat. Your body won't reject a nutrient because it came in a different package on the shelf. This is where "if it fits your macros comes in."

The story is that IIFYM is not a "diet set-up" or style – it came from body-building threads where trainees were asking whether "macaroni could be eaten on my prep." The answer? "If it fits your macros bro, go for it."

For overall health considerations, eating whole foods for the majority of your diet is a good idea. But setting up calorie and macro goals means you have the freedom to pick foods you enjoy and gives you room for some of the "dirty" foods you love. This translates into a good balance of what you want with what you need.

Bottom Line

Making room for the foods you like through macro tracking promotes adherence and enjoyability on a diet. It also makes complete sense from a physiological and psychological point of view. Get your calories from the foods you want and still hit your goals. A life that revolves around what you can't do is not sustainable or healthy – it's also fxxxing annoying."

3. Eat Your Carbs at Night

Once upon a time someone told us carbs at night will make us fat.

Guess what? You can eat carbs at night and not get fat.

In fact, some will argue that eating carbs later in the day in the post-workout window is superior to eating them at other times of the day. Here are a couple of reasons.

You can avoid night time cravings and promote dietary adherence. No more skimpy dinners while your kids gorge on pasta. Like to sit down to a big meal at the end of the day with your family? Do it. You can shuttle your nutrients around and eat them when it's most convenient and enjoyable to you.

Promote growth and recovery during sleep. While kind of anecdotal in theory (24-hour calorie intake is the most important factor), it can't hurt. Imagine plenty of nutrients available as your Testosterone peaks in the middle of your sleep cycle. Sleep and good nutrition fuels growth.

Eat your meals when you can eat them properly. Total calorie intake is the big denominator at the end of the day. This includes when you eat your carbs. Long work day and access to crappy food during the workday? Eat lighter during the day and bigger at night.

Bottom Line

Eat your carbs whenever you want, and there may be merit in getting them later in the day in your post-workout meal"

Research supports the principle of flexible dieting.

4. Manipulate Your Protein

Researchers come to plenty of conclusions about certain diet protocols and their efficacy, without thinking about everyone eating the same amounts of protein. This is one lesson we can learn from traditional bodybuilding diet setups.

Get your protein.

The protein amount in the diet is one of the most important variables for fat loss, muscle growth, and diet adherence (a.k.a. keeping your sanity). As the king of macronutrients, upping your protein is as close as you can get to "magic" in a diet setup if you haven't taken it seriously before.

Why? Protein is the most thermogenic nutrient. Basically, it costs the most to process in the body. It also has the highest levels of satiety, so you feel more satisfied with meals high in protein.

It's the most valuable macro for lean mass retention while in a deficit, and can be combined with both fat and carbs successfully. A consistent level of protein in your diet can't be underestimated. Aiming for at least 1 gram per pound of bodyweight per day is the agreed upon basic recommendation.

Cutting or dropping calories? Consider making protein even higher to stack the odds in your favour for retaining lean mass and keep you as satisfied as possible while calories are low.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, setting protein at 1 gram per pound might not be realistic. If so, consider setting protein at 1 gram per pound of your goal weight. So if you are 300 pounds and aim to weigh 225, go off of 225 for protein intake.

Nutritionist Alan Aragon came up with this shortcut when getting an accurate lean mass measurement isn't possible. He calls this a "sneaky way of setting protein based on lean body mass, without having to measure or figure out exactly what your LBM is."

Another great myth that we can conveniently toss is the claim that only 30 grams of protein can be "used" by the body at a time and anything beyond that is being thrown out. Not true. The argument is that protein synthesis will cap out at 30-40 grams, but that has nothing to do with what your body will use and digest as a whole. Your body simply doesn't work that way.
 
Thanks for the reply GF, very valuable info (i've been spending a bit of time on leangains and eating academy, but very good info none the less)

Muscles can't release their glycogen stores into the blood stream and the glycogen is like >2% of the muscle, so where does the need for carbs come from? I mean protein is gluconeogenic (the liver can convert it to glucose)
I know you can lose fat and gain lean muscle at the same time, I'm just unsure as to whether it will be less efficient than trying to bulk up and then cutting later on.

How does this seem?
A: Front Squat, Bench Press, Bent Over Rows, Leg Raises
B: Front Squat, Deadlift, OHP/Military, Floor Dips

Most of my calories will be protein (easily over 100g), >10g carbs, often from lactose and veggies (unless I slip up), fat varies.

Once I'm strong enough I will add chin ups so I have some pulling. I would start off with supine rows but I don't have anything to do it on.
 
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