Non-Responder to LSD

[Swim15]

New to this forum and posted an introduction but not new to acid. Attended bassnectar this weekend with my girlfriend and had a blast but that's what also got me here.

Little backstory- I've tripped a handful of times with usually two hits, my first 2.5 tab trip was intense. Last night I did 4 hits for the show and honestly proud that I held it together fine with how absurdly extreme the visuals were - I believe they were 125ug tabs as I have several batches.

My girlfriend has done it a couple times with me but usually lower doses like a 100-125ug. She has always said she hasn't felt anything from it but I always figured it was one of those "don't know you were fucked up until you're sober and look back at it" things or blew it off as her just saying that.

So last night I took 4 tabs and she said fuck it and took 3- same batch, same paper strip, and also ones I've used before from a very trusted darknet source.

I've tripped pretty hard before but this trip was intense. Crazy visuals, massive morphing in shapes/patterns/shadows- looked at my phone and the floor at one point in the bathroom and they were both shattering into colors so much they were almost indistinguishable.


So- that said, this wasn't bunk acid. But she had zero trip. She said she felt sober the whole night, didn't have dialated pupils (mine were fucking saucers) while I tripped my balls off for the entire night. I watched her take the tabs myself and we have been together for four years so I know her well. We aren't frequent rec users so tolerance isn't an issue. We pick a few shows a year and just have a blast.


I have not read much literature on non-response to LSD so I apologize if there is info I should have looked for harder but boards tend to blow it off as bunk acid which I know this was not.

Was wondering if anyone could shed any light on this or if anyone knows of similar experiences?

 

[Solipsis]

Some people are naturally very tolerant: hardheads. It is believed to be caused by different receptor densities / distribution and population but more importantly polymorphism of receptors: genetic mutations in specific places causing either slightly different protein folding or different residues causing some drugs not to fit in the receptors like they normally do.

It's not really proven or well understood, the above is theory. Dependent on the actual cause, it may mean that different psychedelics may act more normally, or not. But that would be a possible option to try and see if that can allow her to trip: try other psychedelics that are preferably dissimilarly chemically structured.

 

[Hodor]

Is she on any psych meds?
People on SSRIs/SNRIs will require higher doses of psychedelics; benzos will dampen their effects, and high doses of antipsychotics may prevent them from working altogether.

 

[Swim15]

Nope, no prescription meds besides birth control which would have been my first thought if she was on prescriptions

 

[Swim15]

Thanks for the response, appreciate it and the next thing I was going to try was a different psychedelic to see if that had any effect.

I have not done tons of research into medical lit on this yet so pardon if this is easy to dig up and I have not yet but is there any medical literature on a non response to LSD that you know of?

 

[blistersinthedark]

Yep.
Stan Grof in LSD Psychotherapy:

He talks about it again elsewhere in the book but I can't find it right now.

 

[Solipsis]

I think that story about the guru was not proven to be true, although I do think guru's have been reported to say that they are acquainted with the headspace.

So even people who dedicate a lot of time to meditation probably will be responsive even if they can handle a lot more without batting an eye - I wouldn't entertain too many fantasies about hardheads being 'spiritually higher beings' or something. Things like the polymorphism explanation seem quite sound, and may also help to protect from the false sense of security that hardheads will be able to tolerate any psychedelic, while they may turn out to only tolerate some.

Grof was a psychotherapist but that hardly makes the above excerpt empirically validated or anything like medical literature. Unfortunately LSD research has been more or less banned for decades (until recently), so I would not expect to find studies on this topic, I'm sorry to say. Also because it wouldn't be the most obvious topic of research, you would have to go on the hunt for natural hardheads. Instead they are only just catching up with very general brain imaging studies and LSD, and also apparently radioligand and metabolism studies on other psychedelics.

Apparently polymorphism of 5HT2a (following mutation in the promotor) has been associated with mental illness like OCD, but such mutations can occur in many places so it definitely doesn't have to mean anything.

 

[Xorkoth]

I used to be a virtual non-responder to LSD, though other psychedelics were quite potent for me (all other ones). I tried it probably 10 times over 10 years, always in equal or eventually much greater quantities than my friends, from the same batch. I even took some of the legendary Hofmann blotters back in like 2006 or something. I would either feel nothing or a light threshold experience, never any visuals or real headspace change. I eventually just gave it up, thought to myself, well I guess I'm naturally insanely tolerant to LSD, that sucks. Then 2 summers ago I took 5 hits of acid that my friend would trip fully off a half a hit of. I was told they were 115ug each, in any case they were certainly strong. I did this at a music festival and I finally broke through, it still wasn't super strong but it was a full trip. The next time I tried it after that, I found I could get back to that same level with a lot less, but I was still a hardhead. I had a couple more trips with larger amounts than normal, and the last one was a full-fledged, beautiful, amazing trip. I find that now I seem to not be tolerant anymore, I can take 1 strong hit and trip nicely. I took ~40ug of ALD-52 (basically LSD as it converts to it in your body) and tripped lightly, surprising myself. I found I had to break through by really taking a lot, and after that I could get back there. LSD is the only drug that has ever done this for me, by the way.

 

[aced126]

I used to be a virtual non-responder to LSD, though other psychedelics were quite potent for me (all other ones). I tried it probably 10 times over 10 years, always in equal or eventually much greater quantities than my friends, from the same batch. I even took some of the legendary Hofmann blotters back in like 2006 or something. I would either feel nothing or a light threshold experience, never any visuals or real headspace change. I eventually just gave it up, thought to myself, well I guess I'm naturally insanely tolerant to LSD, that sucks. Then 2 summers ago I took 5 hits of acid that my friend would trip fully off a half a hit of. I was told they were 115ug each, in any case they were certainly strong. I did this at a music festival and I finally broke through, it still wasn't super strong but it was a full trip. The next time I tried it after that, I found I could get back to that same level with a lot less, but I was still a hardhead. I had a couple more trips with larger amounts than normal, and the last one was a full-fledged, beautiful, amazing trip. I find that now I seem to not be tolerant anymore, I can take 1 strong hit and trip nicely. I took ~40ug of ALD-52 (basically LSD as it converts to it in your body) and tripped lightly, surprising myself. I found I had to break through by really taking a lot, and after that I could get back there. LSD is the only drug that has ever done this for me, by the way.

Hmm, this is weird. It could suggest LSD works in a slightly different way to other phenethylamines or tryptamines

 

[cj]

I bet its an antidepressant she hasn't told him about because she doesn't think its relevant to the situation.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it's very strange, I know someone else like that too except he's only tried it a handful of times and has never broken through. Same thing, takes twice as much of the same batch and doesn't trip much at all while his companions are utterly consumed and having a great time.

 

[Solipsis]

I bet its an antidepressant she hasn't told him about because she doesn't think its relevant to the situation.

There have been enough threads like this before where the answer was that there weren't any medications involved as well, usually reported by the person in question. I don't think the reasons are as simple as that in every single case of non-response. I do think that more people think that they are hardheads than there really are, because they aren't realizing their medication plays a role - but every and all instances I doubt it.

If your 'machinery' does not allow for your brain to react to psychedelics in the same way - with 5HT2A agonism and all the necessary downstream effects on IP3/PLC/PLA2 then failure to trip or low sensitivity may not be that surprising. Couldn't say where exactly in the machinery there would be a problem though. But I have no other suggestion, and that everyone is making a mistake isn't cutting it.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

I had exactly the same trouble with sublingual NBOMES. No matter the dose, absolutely no effect for me, but they worked fine for everyone else (from the same batch). Although I probably dodged a bullet there. Funny thing is the traditional 2Cs work well enough.

 

[Swim15]

Thanks for the input guys. Found this really interesting.

Weird that she doesn't fit any of those personality descriptions and definitely not OCD lol quite the opposite actually. Super, super fucking chill girl. Go with the flow and is fairly messy at her place but not to an extreme or anything.

We more or less lived together for two years based on living situations and I work in pharmacy so I've filled every med she has ever gotten. So if I didn't fill it, I would have seen it with her living with me. Not to mention she asks me about every rx she gets before she takes it.

Might have her try it again and titrate up the dose each time to see if she breaks through. Probably just get some mushrooms or mescaline before that though to see if they have any effect.

Hell, may even see if I can contact any university's or researchers using it and see if they would want to check her out or do any tests/brain imaging because I think stuff like this is pretty cool.

Appreciate the input and personal experiences