Newbie: Safe recreational drug for psychotic

[LelouchViBritannia]

Hi guys! This is my first post here and here it goes:

I've searched everywhere and haven't found a specific answer to this question. Me and my girl want to explore with drugs on the weekend, besides alcohol, tobacco and weed(and me, once a very disappointing MDMA pill, which I doubt it was MDMA but still made me have HUGE eyes) we haven't done anything. After researching a lot I decided the ones that I wanted to try out the most and were the safest option would be mushrooms and pure MDMA... now, all will be in a great setting, sunny day on a private house with pool, only her and me, a whole week... it will be a really awesome week regardless, so the setting will be good, we have a great relationship so I don't see why any of us would be getting a bad trip. The problem is that she has a family record of psychosis, her sister is schyzophrenic, and she told me that she thinks she has another personality(almost never surfaces), so having researched it, it's advised not to do any hallucinogenic drugs in this scenario as it might trigger a psychotic episode, which I find it would be really low probability, as the setting will be great, but I still don't wanna risk it. So I'm thinking about MDMA, but pure one is hard to find, and I know it's generally safe with low probability of addiction(only psychological) but I'm worried about her, I'm not sure how high of a probability it is(I know it depends), if I'm just overthinking things too much because I do believe it will be fine, but I wanted to ask experienced people who know more about me on this subject.

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes? Go with a low dose of shrooms? Stick with weed? No drugs at all(as I don't find them necessary, but I do want to try them, and she too, and we would love to have that first experience together in such a magnificent ocassion, as we don't see each other pretty often... LDR)? She's not crazy or anything, and she's a pretty strong girl, so I believe my worries are exaggerated. What drug would you guys recommend that is safe(that is, low or no addictive components and low or something trigger in her psyche that may make lasting damage).

I would love to hear the thoughts of an expert or someone knowledgeable but all answers are welcome and thanks for taking the time to read all of this and have a great day

 

[fatstep]

Mushrooms for someone who's psychotic are a disaster in the making irregardless of set & setting. Tread lightly it at all

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Oh ok, thanks! So, what do you recommend? Oh, and I also forgot to say about this worry of mine with E and sex... is it true that we won't be able to enjoy regular sex afterwards(as sex while on ecstasy is so great, regular sex will not be so enjoyable anymore)? Thanks for answering so quickly man!

 

[《Plasticity》]

Oh ok, thanks! So, what do you recommend? Oh, and I also forgot to say about this worry of mine with E and sex... is it true that we won't be able to enjoy regular sex afterwards(as sex while on ecstasy is so great, regular sex will not be so enjoyable anymore)? Thanks for answering so quickly man!

Haha that's a rumor, for me at least. I'm a male though so I can't speak for females. My girl says it's impossible to achieve orgasm on E, same for me. We usually just fuck for the connection and not necessarily with orgasm being the goal. I prefer regular sex over sex on E, this way I can actually feel my womans vagina, sex on E = overated, ymmv. As for psychedelics that are suited for someone who's psychotic, I hate to break it to you but all psychedelics should be avoided by someone with mental health problems like schizophrenia, psychosis etc... Also, even legit MDMA can cause an episode, maybe not during the roll but during the days following. MDMA tends to cause some nasty depression on the days after a roll, for me you can throw in deprsonalization and derealization which I can see causing lot's of problems with people who have mental illness. Even if the illness hasn't fully manifested itself one trip could be all it takes to make her snap like a twig (from reality that is...).

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Yeah... I guess psychedelics with her are out of the question... too bad
Then E it is! Besides, it's the drug that most attracts me, so great! And there shouldn't be a problem for her(like with shrooms)?

 

[Xorkoth]

I honestly would be pretty worried too. I haven't really voiced this before, but here goes. My wife (soon to be ex wife, we're getting divorced, not really related to what I'm about to say though), had some kind of psychotic break in the last few months. It actually slowly started and progressed and eventually got bad, over the course of 4 or 5 months. She's being treated for it now. Anyway, over the summer, we went camping with friends, and had an awesome time. We had psychedelics, and my wife has smoked very low doses of DMT a couple of times and enjoyed it (like 10mg doses). She also had a low moderate dose of mushrooms a year before that and actually didn't trip nearly as hard as me or my cousin who took similar (maybe a bit higher) doses. But on this trip, she smoked DMT again, and had a higher dose than she really wanted (we were pretty partied up and just put more in than intended). She hit it, and proceeded to freak out. She started screaming "No! No! Oh what?" and stuff like that, it started happening as I was coming out of my trip. I went over and tried to calm her, she told me later that she resented me for it because she felt like I was causing the experience (paranoia).

Anyway, it was fine for a little while, but I started noticing weird things in her pretty soon. She had an episode where, right when we were about to fall asleep, she suddenly jumped up and started running around wild-eyed, saying "SOMETHING is going on, wait, what's happening right now, seriously, I know you know what's going on, you need to tell me". She'd go to the doors and fiddle with them and looked really panicked, and she'd peer out the windows as if expecting to see something or someone. It was a very paranoid vibe. Then she started accusing me of hiding "it" from her, and she got mad at me. Then she ran over to me and started frantically unbuttoning my shirt, and about halfway through she visibly calmed down and stopped, and I asked her what that was about and she said "never speak of this again", and then gave me this odd look and said that she still knew that something was up and I knew what it was and I should have told her. Then she went to bed.

Then a few weeks after that she had an episode at a friend's house where she told my friend that she needed to tell him something, and then she froze up, and couldn't get any words out. But she kept almost saying something, and would look really distressed and then make gestures and give off a vibe that we should be able to understand her. It was really weird and it went on for like 15 minutes. The vibe in the room was very intense and a bit freaky. We weren't sure how to react. Finally I said we needed to go home, and sort of just led her away. When we got to the car she seemed cheerful and fine and spoke to me about random stuff. After a few minutes she hadn't mentioned it so I asked her what that was about. She looked at me and looked thankful for my concern but said "we don't need to talk about that". We went home and didn't talk about it.

After that, I started noticing that at almost all times, her speech was changed. She started pronouncing every consonant explicitly, as if she was speaking very stiffly and formally, almost robotically (but with inflection, but fake-sounding inflection). She spoke very slowly and would often pause in mid-sentence and roll her eyes up like one does when they're searching for words. But the word would be, like "the" or "and", or some other common word. And it would happen every sentence or two, a few-second pause to search for a common word. It was very painful to converse with her because it would take FOREVER. Sometimes she'd have mini-episodes of the total lack of words thing. Another time she had another 15-minute episode, again with the same friends, just like before.

It progressed and progressed, and eventually I convinced her to go home to her mother to live with her for a while and get healthy. She finally admitted something was wrong. We had split up before the DMT experience in the summer for other reasons, and decided that we indeed were over. They haven't told me many details but I know she went to the doctor and they told her mom that she "was a very sick girl". I know she's on some sort of medication but I don't know what. It's been 2 and a half months since she left and she seems more lucid when I speak to her on the phone, but she's still struggling and not better yet. I was very creeped out by her behavior, it struck me and schizophrenia-like, which I sincerely hope it is not. She doesn't have a family history of it.

Anyway to relate this story back to your post, only recently did I make the DMT connection, the changes really started happening shortly after that, slowly at first and after a few months becoming very strong (by the beginning of winter it was full-on). I have this nagging wonder/guilt that I shouldn't have let her do the DMT, that I should have paid more attention to the dose (that even moreso, she was expecting a similar experience as her 10mg ones). If there is a chance this could happen to you/your girl, I say don't take it. You would feel so bad.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Wow that must be a real burden on you, does mental illness run in her family?

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Yeah man! I'm really sorry for what happened with you and your girl, I've seen similar episodes happening to other people and truthfully they are quite disturbing and confusing, as you don't know what's going on. That's precisely what I want to avoid, being in that position really frightens me and as you say, I would feel so bad if it happened because I let her take the risk, it would be my responsibility and I wouldn't want it for me or for her.

So, it's settled.. no pyschedelics... and I'm like 85% made up on my mind to go with MDMA... but I wanna see if someone has a better option or something like that

 

[Xorkoth]

does mental illness run in her family?

No, not really... well, her mom's cousin got on birth control and it really fucked her up emotionally, and she committed suicide at the same age my wife is now. I think that freaks her mom out bad because my wife is also very depressed right now and has been for quite a while, so much so that she hasn't worked in 5 and a half years (one of the factors in us splitting up as she didn't respect what she put me through in terms of burden and stress for providing 100% of our income after we bought a house with the agreement we'd both contribute to be able to afford it). She also got on birth control long ago and over the years it really fucked her up. She had stopped it like 4 and a half years ago and it took her a long time to get over that (her doctor said she might have had a stroke soon, her hair was falling out and her skin was changing color and she was just emotionally out of control, it was crazy - that only happened in like the last 6 months though, it was way more subtle before that). Honestly I'm not sure she ever quite got over that.

Yeah it's pretty crazy man, it was a lot to go through, and still is, but in a more removed way. I mean it was her decision to smoke DMT and she had had several other psychedelic experiences without incident so I didn't particularly have a reason to think something bad would happen. But... I still feel like I should have known or something, you know?

We are getting divorced, but I still love her, I will always love her, we've been together for 12 years, we grew up together, we got together at the beginning of college when we were 18, we've only ever had sex with each other, for many years we were so close we knew what each other were thinking. She's family, her mom and sister and I are super close, we have cats together who are our babies (so we say). It's crazy, I still question if it's the right thing, we used to talk about being together in future and past lives, soulmates.

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Yeah... I don't believe in ghosts, witches or anything like that(where I live people are VERY like that), she does believe in them because of things that have happened to her and her friends, but I'm still pretty skeptic. But she tells me that her grandmother hates her side of the family and that she has "cursed" them... and I'm guessing believing yourself to be a witch and cursing a whole side of your family over some petty hatred is not a clear indication of mental health xD And her sister has schyzophrenia which is very hard on her family and her, her other sister is OK, and she's OK... I mean, I didn't even know she had another personality, I mean, there were moments where it did seem like that, but I attributed them to the context of the situation(a discussion or something like that). She seems normal and really is a great girl, I've never had a problem before so I think maybe she's self diagnosing wrong, but maybe she does have another personality, and I'm ok with it, so it isn't really a hard situation for me rather than for her, but it's still a BIG worry for me, triggering something latent in her, if you know what I mean.

Lol, I got messed up on posts, and thought that was for me :D And yeah, I agree, it must be really hard for you, I mean, after all, this is a woman you loved, and situations arise that are so fucked up... I mean, in all relationships problems arise, but mental illness is sooo different, so fucked up it's really confusing and damaging. I think you should try to help her, but do keep a distance, so you don't get dragged up on it, it wouldn't benefit her OR you... I guess it would be the same if she were a huge addict, you could try to help her, but always keeping a distance

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I totally know what you mean. It's just not worth the risk, psychedelics really can trigger those kinds of conditions.

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

And NO MAN! Dont beat yourself over it! How could you have known it would affect her? She did it before without anything and as you say, there was no reason to suspect anything... and you have to remember that it(DMT) doesn't create problems within her, they only trigger them, that means that eventually they would surface, she already had it in her, it was just a matter of time... it wasn't you or her fault, nobody could have forseen that, and you have already went through to what i would think it's a living hell, dont beat yourself up over it

 

[《Plasticity》]

@Xork you definately shouldn't feel responsible, or at least fully responsible as your right, she was an adult but still my heart goes out to you (no homo). You've been through alot and I can easily see someone losing their shit after enduring all that, even if you weren't the one who kinda went a little bonkers. I wanna say the birth control thing is unrelated as my GF said that BC definately fucked with her hormones for the first month but she eventually stabilized to a normal state and the fact that her mother was also affected makes me think there may be some hidden underlying issues, how many people do you hear attempting suicide after getting on the pill? Not much I would think.


Lelouch, you say you would feel like shit if something did happen to her so be smart and don't even take MDMA. Some people just weren't meant to take drugs... Those 4 hours of fun aren't worth a lifetime of thorazine. Also while I don't believe in witches the world is full of unfathomable mysteries and having an open mind when it comes to spirits and such doesn't make you crazy. Wanna know what's crazy? Life is... IMO nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Although when things turn into obsession and full blown paranoia, that's when you should be a bit worried. From what you say I think it would be wise to leave this idea alone, she doesn't need any psychedelics OR empathogens IMO.

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Does MDMA also trigger psychosis? So, you say the best route is not to do any drugs with her? Sucks, but yeah, I dont wanna take risks

 

[《Plasticity》]

Well I would imagine so, MDMA basically depletes your happy chemical (to over simplify things) and once your depleted it takes around a month to get back to baseline. Some people with no mental illness can get suicidally depressed after a single roll, I have myself when going on what I consider heavy sessions (which to many is not much at all). I also get what's called depersonalization after hefty MDMA use (either 2 days in a row with single doses or one night with multiple resoses), basically the world seems fake and the best way I can describe it is that I feel blank and dissociated to a mild degree, as if I'm living in a third-person view.

I would imagine this type of stuff would be a big trigger for someone who's psychotic. Also, MDMA works on 5-ht2a like psychedelics do as well, although I'm not sure to what extent, so I would imagine the risk is similar if not worse. Techincally MDMA is a psychedelic empathogen from the phenthylamine family which is the sub-category of psychedelics that mescaline falls under. Trust me, it's just not worth the risk man... Don't get me wrong, MDMA is a beautiful chemical but it's not for everyone... go ahead and check out the MDMA sub-forum, there's countless threads of people experiencing long lasting emotional issues from MDMA.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

if you are REALLY worried your girl may be schizophrenic don't do it mang
you said you're gonna have a great time regardless, so why take the risk?