New user needs basic advice about using Research Chemicals...

[GreatArc]

Hello,

Novice experimenter here. I will be posting lots of questions here, please remember I am new.

I have been trying Psilocybin trip for a short while and have considered having an experience with Research Chemicals, specifically 4-ACO-DMT, as I understand this is the closest to the experiences I have already had and moving very carefully.

My questions about getting RCs are these:

1.) I believe most of the supply I am considering ordering from will come in powder form, so a mg scale will be needed, correct?

2.) Will I put the powder into capsules to consume, or is adding it to water or other drink/food adequate? Is there any point to pill capsules besides sparing the taste (if any)?

3.) What test kits do I need for the 4-group RCs? I am also considering 1P-LSD. If I get 10 blotters, do I test one? How would I know any others are the same 'batch'? Do most laboratory RC suppliers make sure it's all from the same batch?

4.) What kinds of equipment or supplies do you consider useful for psychedelic RCs?

Thanks.

 

[perpetualdawn]

1) Yes a scale is absolutely the most important thing. I'm glad you're on it. You'll probably want one that's sensitive down to the milligram +/- 2 or 3mg.. so expect to pay at least $30 for a scale, or maybe spring for a slightly better one for $60-80

2) Most powders you can just dissolve in water like you said, or a bit of vodka. Some of them have ... interesting (disgusting) ... tastes. But it can be a part of the experience!

3) I won't try to answer you here because I've not been the most diligent in testing myself, but it's a very good idea. All of the 1P-LSD sources that I've seen on the clearnet are highly reputable and you probably don't need to get your 1P-LSD tested if it is coming from one of the well known and reputed sources. It is a very good habit to do the testing though, so good on you if you do.

4) Scale, scale, scale

edit: 4) Some kind of locking box to prevent naive hands from accessing the chemicals. This is really important for safety.

 

[Xorkoth]

According to some recent posters maybe in the scale thread (can't remember), the more expensive scales are really not any better than the $25-30 range scales (such as the AWS Gemini-20). You're not going to get full accuracy until you spend huge amounts of money on lab scales. I think the post I'm remembering had someone saying that they tried a scale that was like $200 and it didn't work any better than the Gemini-20.

But yeah, definitely get a milligram scale (one sensitive to .001g/1mg). They sell gram, 100mg, 10mg, and 1mg scales all for around the same price but none of them are suitable except the 1mg scales. They vary by +/- 2mg in my experience, but that's fine for most things. For more potent things, you can weigh a larger amount and dissolve to a known concentration in alcohol and then dose with a marked oral syringe.

Check out the Big and Dandy Scale thread... also the Big and Dandy Liquid Measurement thread.

 

[PsychaStevic]

Typically when it comes to Iysergimides, you get what you order, especially using the Canadian vendors. Most sheet will have the chemical name on the back of the sheet all across it, at least my 1p & Al/Eth lad did

 

[sekio]

Most good RC suppliers will post spectra/analysis sheets for the compounds you purchase. However, the analysis provided by a vendor is not a guarantee that the substance is what they claim it is; working on the idea that most people cannot run a NMR scan to see what the compound is means they can substitute whatever they want for a report and the average Joe won't be able to say which is right. Many vendors that have been established and operational for years are good at ensuring the compounds they sell are "as-advertised", it tends to be the fly-by-night ones that have fake or no analysis. Sometimes vendors will specify which batch of compound they sell too, with some sort of internal ID number or the like.

The problem with testing RCs is that color-changing reagents are just not enough to cover all the bases. Also, they can provide confusing or outright wrong results when you test a mixture of compounds. That's why I recommend TLC plates to the intermediate-level home chemist; you can seperate the mixture into different spots and stain them. Usually gives you a rough idea of how much of each component there is in the mix too.

Also, testing ergolines is tricky due to the low, sub-milligram dose levels. And you're going to have a very hard time telling 1P-LSD, ALD52, and/or LSD apart based on color changes or fluorescence... they all glow the same.

 

[Hodor]

3.) What test kits do I need for the 4-group RCs? I am also considering 1P-LSD. If I get 10 blotters, do I test one? How would I know any others are the same 'batch'? Do most laboratory RC suppliers make sure it's all from the same batch?

In general the doses on RC lysergamide blotters tend to be very consistent. Two my knowledge, there's only 2 labs that produce ALD52 and 1p-LSD, anway.

Tryptamines (which includes the 4-substituted tryptamines as well as LSD) are tested using "Ehrlich's reagent". However, 1p-LSD and ALD-52 are exceptions in that their reaction with Ehrlich's is very weak/greatly delayed, as the propionyl/acetyl group that differentiates them from plain ol' LSD is in a position where it prevents the Ehrlich's from binding.

4.) What kinds of equipment or supplies do you consider useful for psychedelic RCs?

Apart from the obvious scales, and maybe equipment for volumetric dilution?
Benzodiazepines! Xanax, Ativan, Valium or a similar downer. Weed may be great for taking the edge off in a lot of situations, but a psychedelic experience ain't one of them. In fact, cannabis usually ends up intensifying the whole thing - you wouldn't believe how many "bad trip"-stories start with "...so I decided to smoke a bowl". Benzos, on the other hand, can reliably smooth out a psychedelic experience; they're not just useful for aborting extremely difficult experiences, but they can also be used in smaller doses (say .5 mg's of Xanax) to just turn it down a notch or two, thus salvaging a trip that's about to get out of hand.

Oh, and while we're at it: You don't have anything to "prove" when doing psychedelics; if an experience is getting so overwhelming and disturbing that it threatens to negatively impact your mental health, then there's no shame in not forcing yourself to sit through it. Yes, some "challenging" experiences can have tremendous therapeutic value, but a good therapist also knows the difference between encouraging a patient to confront their issues and forcing them into a situation that's ultimately going to do more harm than good.

 

[Solipsis]

Also, testing ergolines is tricky due to the low, sub-milligram dose levels. And you're going to have a very hard time telling 1P-LSD, ALD52, and/or LSD apart based on color changes or fluorescence... they all glow the same.

Apart from 1P-LSD and ALD-52 not reacting to Ehrlich's, that is unless you put your 1P/ALD in water first for about 2 hours to hydrolyze to LSD before you test with Ehrlich's reagent.

Those LSD analogues these days are made in big batches and only part of it is laid by middle men, the other ones will come on printed blotters. Of course a vendor could fake that.

4-group RC --> 4-substituted tryptamines or 4-sub trypts for short

What reagents are necessary for those are I guess Ehrlich's plus one of these: http://i54.tinypic.com/2s1naf5.jpg (marquis or mecke) but you see their ability to differentiate between different tryptamines is limited...
IMO a problem can be to try and test LSD by applying reagent directly on blotter... you are only getting part of the dose that way so better to first leech it out of the blotter paper first with a tiny bit of water or alcohol.

Get a proper scale and use the Scale thread linked earlier!

Smaller ideas to add paraphernalia are a lab spatula (I'd pick a slim / petite-sy one otherwise you might as well get a small spoon which is easier to get hold of but I never found those practical), a weighing trey if your scale doesn't come with one (they usually do).. ehh
A graded syringe (no needle necessary per se but helps) to do volumetric measurement. Usually 1 or 2 ml ones should work well... Get a few because the gradings wear off. Pure alcohol (suitable for consumption not denatured!) or otherwise vodka or another preservative such as benzyl alcohol... again if you are doing volumetric measurement.

I should note that 4-sub tryptamines are not suitable for volumetric measurement or making any solution that you are not going to ingest right away. So question may depend on which research chemicals you are considering, now and later. In general, volumetric measurement is useful.

Good that you are being reponsible about this regarding safety, setting a good example...

 

[GaryGlisten]

But yeah, definitely get a milligram scale (one sensitive to .001g/1mg). They sell gram, 100mg, 10mg, and 1mg scales all for around the same price but none of them are suitable except the 1mg scales. They vary by +/- 2mg in my experience, but that's fine for most things. For more potent things, you can weigh a larger amount and dissolve to a known concentration in alcohol and then dose with a marked oral syringe.

Check out the Big and Dandy Scale thread... also the Big and Dandy Liquid Measurement thread.

It's also useful to get a couple of 10 mg powder measuring scoops off Ebay.

 

[Lysergamind]

"Apart from 1P-LSD and ALD-52 not reacting to Ehrlich's, that is unless you put your 1P/ALD in water first for about 2 hours to hydrolyze to LSD before you test with Ehrlich's reagent."

Another useful method is to raise the temperature of the test to about 90°F (easier if done in a pouch-style Ehrlich test). With a warmer temperature, the acetylated or propionylated lysergamide reacts more readily – even without added water.

https://anonimag.es/image/JT9hE2h

^ The reaction pictured in the link above took place over a 20 minute time span.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's also useful to get a couple of 10 mg powder measuring scoops off Ebay.

The thing is, 10mg of one drug can take up a much larger or smaller volume than 10mg of another drug. You can't rely on scoops at all, it's extremely inaccurate. Get a scale, they're so cheap and easy to get on the Internet.

 

[Hodor]

The thing is, 10mg of one drug can take up a much larger or smaller volume than 10mg of another drug. You can't rely on scoops at all, it's extremely inaccurate. Get a scale, they're so cheap and easy to get on the Internet.

Even different batches of the same drug can greatly vary in consistency (and thus density), from "fluffy" to "clumpy".

I guess people might find those spoons somewhat useful when they're handling a fine powder of somewhat uniform density and they've measured how much a "spoonful" of the specific substance/batch actually weighs (for which you'd need a scale anyway), *and* the substance in question doesn't have an extremely steep dose-response curve (e.g. I wouldn't bet my sanity on those 2 scoops really being 20 mg of 2C-E).