Need advise about mental state and past opiate use

[Crack'r]

Hi,

I used opiates/Oxy for about 10 years for pain. I mainly took them for pain but they did get abused once they quit working and I was looking for relief. The last few years I was on around 400 mg of Oxy per day. After about a year of trying to find buprenorphine thru a legit doctor I finally went to a walk in that only accepts cash and feels a bit sketchy. When I induced on the bupe I followed all the suggestions and ended up needing 32mg and even that didn't completely take the withdrawals away. I felt like crap for about 3 days but then started feeling pretty darn good for about a week on 16-20 mg per day. After that I started tapering and got down to 4 mg per day for the last 2 months.

Which brings me to my question. I am not doing very well mentally and a bit of a basket case. I feel depressed and go thru periods of extreme agitation and just feel pretty crappy overall. My first instinct is to take more bupe, which seems to help a little, but I'm not feeling like I'm having withdrawals just mentally in a bad place. It doesn't help that I've been having relationship problems with my wife for years, I have pretty significant medical problems and not working, don't have many friends anymore not that I've ever had a ton of them, and just don't have much positive in my life. I do have my almost 3 yr old daughter that I love to death but I also take care of her for 14 hours a day by myself and she can start pushing my buttons at times. I have probably a couple years worth of housework that needs to be done basically by myself because we can't afford to pay someone to do it, and it all seems pretty overwhelming most of the time.

It almost sounds like I'm experiencing PAWS but I also have a lot on my plate. I have been reading and started taking supplements a few days ago but not sure what I should do to feel a little human again. I want to get completely off the bupe but I don't know if I should be on more and that is why I fell into this mental funk and just accept I need to be on it for a while to get to a better place (if possible)? Or if I'm just genuinely depressed and should try an antidepressant. I've tried quite a few in the past and they seem to make me really sleepy which I can't afford and have never seemed to do much and I usually stop taking them after a few months.

If anyone has any advise I would love to hear it. I would love to feel like I did that first week when I had energy and motivation and was ready to make up for lost time. But I would also rather not be on anything and feel that way naturally. I'm on other meds that keep me alive so if I have to be on bupe to make life enjoyable then so be it, though I would rather not. I'm over opiates and have no desire to use them so that isn't an issue but I need to figure out a way to get to a better place mentally before I lose my family even though I'm fairly certain me and my wife weren't meant to be even if I didn't have these problems and at times think that would be for the best except I don't want that for my daughter. I also was exercising some for a couple weeks but have stopped now that I'm feeling so depressed.

Anyways, any suggestions would be great! Sorry this is so long, I type fast and tend to ramble.

 

[ObieWan]

I feel your pain and have been in similar dark times in my past. I'm glad you quit the OXY. 16mg of bupe should curb most withdrawals and most docs won't prescribe more than that. Any doc worth his salt will recommend therapy along with bupe which I agree with, I just hate therapy myself.

I will say this and it's not encouraging, but bupe is harder to kick than oxy or heroin. I tapered from 8mg to 1/8 of a mg over the course of a year (I also often IV'd it). However, I still had minor withdrawals for many months. The foggy mental state, lethargy, aches, but it slowly went away. Now I no longer ever think about it. I broke a bone and didn't take the pain killers. You may be someone that needs the bupe for the rest of their life and there's nothing wrong with that. You need a close friend, or preferably a therapist to work through these things.

I will also say that exercise is GREAT. It will boost your mood, energy, feeling of well being, and improves withdrawals.

 

[simco]

....
I will say this and it's not encouraging, but bupe is harder to kick than oxy or heroin. I tapered from 8mg to 1/8 of a mg over the course of a year (I also often IV'd it). However, I still had minor withdrawals for many months. The foggy mental state, lethargy, aches, but it slowly went away. Now I no longer ever think about it. I broke a bone and didn't take the pain killers. You may be someone that needs the bupe for the rest of their life and there's nothing wrong with that. You need a close friend, or preferably a therapist to work through these things.

...

Everyone's different. But I disagree about buprenorphine being harder to kick than full-agonist opioids. Yes, the symptoms can linger for a long time. But they tend to be milder than WDs from heroin or oxy or similar. Also, a really good, well-planned taper works wonders on weaning yourself from bupe.

 

[herbavore]

I'm sorry you are feeling this way. Are you considering any type of therapy? If that is available to you and you can afford it--even a few sessions--it could give you some concrete tools for dealing with the depression and anxiety and the stress of child-rearing (btw, kudos for being there for her.). Even if this is drug related it makes no difference; the problems are the same and the tools and strategies are the same for dealing with them.

P.S. Staying in a marriage where you feel unfulfilled is not helping. Many children do better with two happy, healthy separated parents than an intact family where both parents are depressed and just hanging in there for the kids.

 

[LopLover]

Everything other posters have said is great advice, and you undoubtedly ARE going through PAWS. It sounds like your current dose is working, and you are just in the restless, irritable, and discontent that is early recovery for most everyone. My only additions that might be useful is to perhaps find a free support group to meet other people who feel like you.

12-Step is the most common and easy to find. I do AA because as long as I have a "desire not to drink," I'm a member, and my particular drug history isn't anyone's business, including the fact that I'm on maintenance with Sub. But a lot of people find them too "religious" or have other issues, so there are lots of non-12-Step support groups, like Rational Recovery, Lifering, that are available both F2F and online.

For the short term, though, and I know this is the last thing anyone wants to hear when they're depressed, but EXERCISE is the only way your body can make its' own opiates, endorphins. In your situation, with more time than money and a child to care for, get a stroller--check out thrift stores if you don't have one already--and hit the bricks. Just walking, in the open air, pushing your daughter, and slowing down when she wants to walk, of course, will do more for your mood than anything else I can imagine! I hope you try it and get back to us--lots of us would love to be in a position to be able to just groove with our kids, and if it helps you to feel better physically, then it's a win-win!

PS-Know that you are absolutely in the right place. I've not only been where you've been, I get feeling like that often. Now if only I can take my own advice. %) , from Sherry, the lover of lop-eared bunz

 

[Crack'r]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies. From what I've read about PAWS it seems to be describing what I'm feeling. I guess the 4 mg of bupe just isn't enough to keep my brain happy but enough to not have withdrawals. Out of curiosity I took a lot more to see if I could get back to that feeling back when I first made the switch and I never got there. I did feel better until something stressful came along and then I would snap back into major rage and aggression. It's weird to have such dramatic emotional swings because I'll be sitting and fine and next thing I'm crying for no reason.

I tried twice before to taper off the oxy and stopped for about 3 weeks the first time and 2 weeks the second time and I just couldn't handle the pain, devastating depression, and just overall terrible feeling. I'm hoping it isn't as bad with the bupe because after trying more I'm even more ready to taper and get off. Are the acute withdrawals just as bad as oxy or is it more the mental funk? If I'm going to be having this depression and nasty feeling then I would rather not be on anything and working on healing and getting to a better place.

I used to be very athletic and wouldn't mind doing something now but I hate the cold and my preferred exercise is riding my mountain bike which makes the cold even worse with the extra wind. I'm thinking that maybe this winter I will try to taper and in the spring stop and just go nuts exercising. It would really help if I had a wife that was understanding and loving but she has no tolerance for anything. I'm the type of person that needs affection and will give even more and like doing things for the people I love. And when I get upset and frustrated and just need a little affection she just gets pissed and does nothing which just makes it worse because then I start thinking about how screwed up our relationship is. I know I'm not the easiest person to live with right now but I know for a fact things would be better if I was in a more loving relationship. But it is what it is right now and I just need to figure out how to not obsess over it and work on getting better somehow and worry about it once I'm in a better place which it's been so long I'm starting to wonder if that's even possible anymore.

I've gone and seen therapists in the past and they have never really helped. It's like they just listen to me talk and ask what seem like silly questions and don't ever give any useful advise or coping techniques. I may have not found a good one yet but they have never seemed very helpful before. The Dr that gave me the bupe was going to send me to AA if I had any cravings and I don't so he never did. From what I've seen I'm not sure it would do me any good. I think just getting out and meeting people would help and some type of recovery group might give me something to have in common. I was an engineer before I got sick and most of my hobbies are strange and finding people I get along with has never been very easy.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I wish I knew what the right thing to do was but I guess we all want that knowledge. I think I'm going to try to taper and stop the bupe and hope I can deal with it. Having to watch my daughter all day during the week makes it difficult to be a terrible wreck for days and weeks at a time. But if I know it will eventually get better and if I can find something positive it might be enough to tough it out.

Anymore suggestions or comments are greatly appreciated. I would really like to feel human again and be able to have fun and want to do things without always feeling so yucky. More for my daughter and family than anything else.

Thanks again.

 

[danequeed]

At the outpatient facility I went to we had a men's group twice a week with a bunch of regular members and a really good counselor moderating it. It can really help clear things up when you get to explain things to a bunch of really good people that have been in similar situations.

My only other suggestion would be carefully selected marijuana strains. I'm not talking about the stereotypical "fun" weed, but strains that give an overwhelming sense of wellbeing and happiness without all the gnarly side effects of adding even more drugs like antidepressants. I went between heroin and suboxone for over a year, then finally went cold turkey and weed saved my life. At least for the time that you're going through the worst of the paws, being stoned will make life much more bearable. Stick with strong indicas (northern lights, godfather OG) you can get concentrate to put in a vaporizer to cut down on smell, just don't tell the wife

 

[herbavore]

I've gone and seen therapists in the past and they have never really helped. It's like they just listen to me talk and ask what seem like silly questions and don't ever give any useful advise or coping techniques.

The sad reality is that it is a field full of many incompetent people. But, just like finding a good doctor or a teacher or professor that you click with, finding a therapist that gives you practical tools can be very life changing. The good news is that we can all learn what many of them failed to learn: the strategies of CBT, DBT, mindfulness are all out there in print and on the web. The easy part is finding the information but the harder part is internalizing changed habits. Drug habits pale in comparison to mental habits!!

 

[Lost_Vet]

After quitting fentanyl and oxy, I felt the same way as you. I've been off everything for over a month and I still have that rage that seems to come from no where and is generally directed at loved ones and idiot drivers. My primary care doc started me on Prozac and its has helped a bunch. I still get pissed at silly stuff but not nearly to the degree I did before. So maybe something like that would help you.

LV

 

[Xorkoth]

Drug habits pale in comparison to mental habits!!

I'd evem venture to say that drug habits are mental habits, but higher-level (and thus easier to change) than some.