Opioids Narcan [Naloxone] Self-Administration to Expedite Opiate Withdrawal.

[d896629]

Hello ladies and gentlemen!

For those of you who have followed by threads, I honestly feel I am over opioid addiction after a two year struggle [with one year leading up, and being in some stage of quitting since March of 2019].

About two weeks ago, I decided to shove a Narcan nasal spray up my nose about 40 hours since I had taken methadone [which was the first opiate/opioid substance I had taken since 72 hours prior to that]. I was experiencing no withdrawal when I self-administered that 4mg Narcan nasal spray, and WOW - did I ever get sick as a dog for an hour or so there. Sheesh. No wonder addicts who are saved by Narcan immediately go back to putting an opiate in their body!

My doctor has prescribed me something called Naltrexone, which, as I understand it, is a full opioid ANTAGONIST...the same as Naloxone, right? I have not purchased my prescription yet.

What is the theory behind Naltrexone working? Is the logic that if we boot all remaining micro-particles of opioid off the receptors, that they "digest" faster when off the receptor? As in - withdrawal will last longer with the opiate bound to the receptor, thus booting opiates off their respective receptors will help us get through this process faster?

My doctor said it will "reduce cravings", but I'm just thinking physiologically about what a full opioid antagonist would do, and it seems like Naltrexone would do exactly what Narcan/Naloxone does, which is to simply bump the opiates off the receptors. So...what's the benefit to that? Faster processing of the opiates in terms of ejecting them from our bodies?

If this is the case, given that I want to accelerate my current post-acute withdrawal [PAWS] phase, and given that I have two more Narcan nasal sprays here at home [one of which expired in April...I'm not sure if that matters, so if anyone knows - please let me know], would it benefit me to just self-administer them, and continue with Narcan self-administration?

My guess is - the topic of Narcan/Naloxone or Naltrexone self-administration to accelerate opioid withdrawal hasn't been well-researched, thus we can all only speculate as to the physiological process that entails, if this is even an occurrence at all.

Regardless, any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you.

 

[Smichelle95]

Naltrexone is an antagonist of opioid receptors and blocks the effects of both natural endorphins and opiates. An antagonist blocks opioids by attaching to the opioid receptors without activating them. So you will feel no high but it still blocks the cravings. Naltrexone is used to block cravings for opioids and alcohol but naloxone is not, while naloxone can treat overdoses but naltrexone cannot. They both block the analgesic action of both exogenous opioids and the pleasure response of endogenous endorphins but naloxone acts quickly enough to treat an overdose while naltrexone doesn't. So naltrexone cannot be used to rescue someone from an overdose but can be used to help people who are addicted to opioids have less craving for them. From my understanding, usually you need to be off of opiates for 7-10 days before taking naltrexone, so there would be no opiates to bump off, but since it occupies the receptors, it gets rid of the cravings. Like you said there's not much studies on accelerating the withdrawal by self- administering narcan, but my thought would be it would only make your withdrawals come sooner and hit harder but not necessarily making the withdrawal period shorter.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

It will take away the cravings since you cannot get high.

I see no benefit to taking a super high affinity antagonist. Would this not also block natural chemicals trying to bind to those receptors? Given you are clean and have taken it, I see no use for more doses.

Scariest thing about being on something like that would be if you got injured and needed immediate pain relief, you would get nothing, even for days until that stuff wore off. 0 reason to ingest an antagonist unless you are in OD. Perhaps to scrub the receptors with a single dose down the line (I have read people taking a dose around 6 months clean or so, experiences may vary). Repeated use sounds worthless. Even not healthy for your mind playing receptor god. On your most precious receptors of all.

Don't listen to 99% of doctors regarding this stuff. He is getting visits out of you ($$$$) and script to sell. Go ahead and spray that dose up your nose. However, I do think it is best just to let whatever tiny pieces of opiates that may be left in you go on their own over time. Concentrate on your health, eating right, getting stronger, and PAWS will fade away fast. Slowest withdrawal is always best. Some people go into such horrible withdrawal, it will take months and months of clean time to even partially feel better. I would be certain that if you took 2 people both on 100mg of methadone and locked them in a room. Gave one of them a hit of narcan, leave the other. Check on a month, the dude that took the narcan will not be in better shape, I promise. (assuming he lived). And wold of gone through hell.

You are craving to go back into opiate addiction? Doubtful.

 

[d896629]

Thank you for the responses!!!

I last took 13mg methadone the day after I wrote this post [September 18th, or thereabouts - I would have to check my log file, but around there]. I took Suboxone five days ago.

So it's been 12 days since my last full opiate agonist, and five days since my last partial opiate agonist.

I feel fine. No withdrawal. Kratom and Ativan are helping with that. But generally speaking, I am not waking up with any sort of withdrawal.

Do you know what would happen to me if I shoved another 4mg Naloxone/Narcan up my nose? I'm hoping I would feel nothing...but I guess I don't know for sure.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I do think that it's important to never underestimate opiate addiction or say that "I'm through the woods." Everyone should be proud of their progress because holy sh!t it takes a lot to even get past the withdrawal alone. Everyone is highly prone to relapsing. There's no science behind it. I've seen people be clean for years relapse with no clear trigger or ability to predict a pattern to it. In a way I wonder if things like naltrexone are putting a bandaid on something that should be fixed to begin with, but then on the other hand they do work (with some unintended potential consequences that people posted above). I would not Narcan yourself if you feel that you do not need it because I have absolutely no idea what would happen lol.

 

[d896629]

I shot it about 30 minutes ago or more. I feel nothing! I think that's a good thing...it would seem to suggest I am over the withdrawal cycle, finally.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Thats wild. You are shooting narcan to see? I admire that in a way.

Grats. Stay clean

 

[Deru]

My guess is - the topic of Narcan/Naloxone or Naltrexone self-administration to accelerate opioid withdrawal hasn't been well-researched, thus we can all only speculate as to the physiological process that entails, if this is even an occurrence at all.

Some interesting reads:

Low-Dose Naltrexone (LDN)—Review of Therapeutic Utilization

Naltrexone and naloxone are classical opioid antagonists. In substantially lower than standard doses, they exert different pharmacodynamics. Low-dose naltrexone (LDN), considered in a daily dose of 1 to 5 mg, has been shown to reduce glial inflammatory ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ultra-low-dose naloxone suppresses opioid tolerance, dependence and associated changes in mu opioid receptor–G protein coupling and Gβγ signaling

Opiates produce analgesia by activating μ opioid receptor-linked inhibitory G protein signaling cascades and related ion channel interactions that sup…

www.sciencedirect.com

High-Affinity Naloxone Binding to Filamin A Prevents Mu Opioid Receptor–Gs Coupling Underlying Opioid Tolerance and Dependence

Ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists enhance opioid analgesia and reduce analgesic tolerance and dependence by preventing a G protein coupling switch (Gi/o to Gs) by the mu opioid receptor (MOR), although the binding site of such ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists was previously unknown. Here we...

journals.plos.org

 

[d896629]

Thats wild. You are shooting narcan to see? I admire that in a way.

Grats. Stay clean

Whoops...that was silly wording on my part. No, I did not shoot the Narcan intramuscularly - I "shot" the 4mg nasal spray up my nose.

No negative effects! Maybe a tiny bit of depression, but that could have been psychosomatic. I guess technically, the Narcan would even bump endogenous endorphins off the receptors, right? So maybe that led to a bit of malaise, but it was nothing like last time:

I used no full opioid agonist for five days, followed by two days of methadone, maybe 5-10mg each day, then two full days of nothing, and THEN I self-administered the 4mg nasal Narcan spray.

Oh my goodness...was I ever in pain. I was immediately on the toilet, and I also vomited. And I NEVER vomit. So quite obviously, that was the result of the Narcan.

But yesterday - there were no issues at all.

It's been 13 days since I last used methadone, although I used Suboxone six days ago. But whatever the reason, I felt no pain from the Narcan.

If anything, I just have Canadian Covid-19 depression. The reaction to the pandemic has not impacted me yet - but it may. And it has affected day to day life. This is NOT the world I wanted to come back to after getting over opiate addiction, which was the hardest thing in my life - but oh well.

 

[Deru]

guess technically, the Narcan would even bump endogenous endorphins off the receptors, right?

Yes, it affects both endogenous opioids (endorphins) as well as exogenous opioids bound to those receptors.