Opioids Naltrexone and Kratom?

[NorwegianElkhound]

So I take vivitrol injections once a month, so opiates/oids are useless on me. But I was looking into Kratom and if it would work on someone using Naltrexone, and this is what I found on a website:
"Two compounds in Kratom are known to interact with opioid receptors in the brain. The concurrent use of naltrexone, therefore, can cause precipitated withdrawal from Kratom."
Compared to the hydrocodone entry, which says:
"Vivitrol counters the effects of hydrocodone, rendering it useless for pain management. The combination can also cause acute opioid withdrawal symptoms in patients who take hydrocodone regularly."

Notice how they both say that Naltrexone will send you into WD if you have them in your system at the time of ingestion, but the Kratom entry does not explicitly say that Naltrexone blocks the effects.
Will Kratom work while on Naltrexone or would it still block the effects?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey man! I hope this finds you well. I noticed your avatar. I have a pup of my own. Australian Cattle Dog/Husky. Mitragynine is the name of the primary active substance in Kratom. It's kind of analogous to how Morphine is the primary active substance in Poppy/Opium. It is essentially an Opioid and I believe it exerts all of its desired effects through the Opioid receptors in the body. For this reason it's really not worth pursuing for someone on Opioid blockers of any kind. Sorry dude.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

The fact that they didn't mention that it would block kratom is purely by coincidence. I've never tried taking kratom after naltrexone but mitragynine is said to act very similarly to conventional opiates so I doubt it would have any noticeable effects.

 

[negrogesic]

Kratom has a complex mechanism of action, which is only partially mediated by the MOR (the opioid receptor site responsible for the reinforcing properties of opioids). Some of the stimulant and calcium channel blocking properties will remain.

If you do use kratom, please report back on its effects!

 

[Seekinganswers1231]

I've got a Kratom order coming (small order) and I'm on the vivitrol shot, I will report back, I'm assuming there will be no effect from the Kratom. But we shall see, I ordered red maeng da from a reputable vendor

 

[Lizzy1Fair]

I've got a Kratom order coming (small order) and I'm on the vivitrol shot, I will report back, I'm assuming there will be no effect from the Kratom. But we shall see, I ordered red maeng da from a reputable vendor

you probably won't feel anything like you said.. or it'll make you feel sick. I've had that happen with the naltrexone

 

[muffin_man]

Hey All!

im a 4-5 year daily user of kratom. About 10mg in the am, 10 midday and 10 at night. Usually green or red strains. I was addicted to opiates in my early 20s (33 now) and also have been taking whiskey shots for sleep everyday for the last 4-5 years or so as well. Not a day without it so I never had withdrawals from the alcohol. My wife has been taking kratom and alcohol with me, just not as much. She received 50mg pills of naltrexone from her doctor. I had some naltrexone pills given to me by an old neighbor years ago that have been sitting in a cabinet. Last night we decided to take our first dose of naltrexone because we were wanting to get off the alcohol. About half an hour after ingesting the pill, our bodies started to feel very dizzy and sweaty and achy. My skin was both on fire and freezing cold. My legs became intensely restless and I was feeling so insanely unwell that I had to call 911. My wife was having the same symptoms just not as bad as mine. She was able to keep it together and stay home. She threw up and had diarrhea and sweating and pains and whatnot but she decided against the ER. They took me in. I have not felt pain like that since my early 20s when I didn’t have an oxy dose for a couple of days. My muscles were aching like never before, I could not stay still, curling back and forth almost like a snake, it was absolutely horrible. They said I was having alcohol withdrawals but I don’t think they knew just how kratom works. I think the naltrexone kicked off the kratom off of my receptors and that along with the alcohol abuse created my hell. They kept me at the hospital for about 8 hours monitoring me so I don’t have seizures, they gave me an IV and something to help with how I was feeling but nothing helped at all. When I got home around 3-4am, I tried to lay down to sleep but there was zero chance I was going to get any sleep. I felt extremely awake and aware of everything around me, vividly. It was horrible. Muscle aches and restlessness and mental confusion. I decided to have a couple of shots of whiskey and some weed, which helped a tiny little bit but even then it was hard to fall asleep. I got maybe 3-4 hours of sleep but my wife said I was kicking and punching in my sleep.
I had to turn to kratom in the morning and I took half of my usual dose, which helped calm my legs a bit, still not near normal until naltrexone gets out of my system, then I can start tapering off of both alcohol and kratom. I just want to be able to sleep but not sure how that will happen in the future.
Anyway. Just wanted to put this out there, if you have kratom in your system, especially years of daily use, DO NOT TAKE naltrexone until 7-14 days after your last dose. Kicked me into the depths of hell that I’m still trying to climb out of.

 

[negrogesic]

Hey All!

im a 4-5 year daily user of kratom. About 10mg in the am, 10 midday and 10 at night. Usually green or red strains. I was addicted to opiates in my early 20s (33 now) and also have been taking whiskey shots for sleep everyday for the last 4-5 years or so as well. Not a day without it so I never had withdrawals from the alcohol. My wife has been taking kratom and alcohol with me, just not as much. She received 50mg pills of naltrexone from her doctor. I had some naltrexone pills given to me by an old neighbor years ago that have been sitting in a cabinet. Last night we decided to take our first dose of naltrexone because we were wanting to get off the alcohol. About half an hour after ingesting the pill, our bodies started to feel very dizzy and sweaty and achy. My skin was both on fire and freezing cold. My legs became intensely restless and I was feeling so insanely unwell that I had to call 911. My wife was having the same symptoms just not as bad as mine. She was able to keep it together and stay home. She threw up and had diarrhea and sweating and pains and whatnot but she decided against the ER. They took me in. I have not felt pain like that since my early 20s when I didn’t have an oxy dose for a couple of days. My muscles were aching like never before, I could not stay still, curling back and forth almost like a snake, it was absolutely horrible. They said I was having alcohol withdrawals but I don’t think they knew just how kratom works. I think the naltrexone kicked off the kratom off of my receptors and that along with the alcohol abuse created my hell. They kept me at the hospital for about 8 hours monitoring me so I don’t have seizures, they gave me an IV and something to help with how I was feeling but nothing helped at all. When I got home around 3-4am, I tried to lay down to sleep but there was zero chance I was going to get any sleep. I felt extremely awake and aware of everything around me, vividly. It was horrible. Muscle aches and restlessness and mental confusion. I decided to have a couple of shots of whiskey and some weed, which helped a tiny little bit but even then it was hard to fall asleep. I got maybe 3-4 hours of sleep but my wife said I was kicking and punching in my sleep.
I had to turn to kratom in the morning and I took half of my usual dose, which helped calm my legs a bit, still not near normal until naltrexone gets out of my system, then I can start tapering off of both alcohol and kratom. I just want to be able to sleep but not sure how that will happen in the future.
Anyway. Just wanted to put this out there, if you have kratom in your system, especially years of daily use, DO NOT TAKE naltrexone until 7-14 days after your last dose. Kicked me into the depths of hell that I’m still trying to climb out of.

Crazy. You should have told them you were addicted to opioids (and not even mentioned the kratom). Then again, there is a 99% chance that they wouldnt have done anything differently. In that situation they'd just have you ride it out. Perhaps clonidine and benzos would have been the best protocol. A particularly bright ER doc would have gone for benzos + gabapentin + low dose clonidine perhaps.

Definitely wasn't alcohol withdrawal.

I know the feeling you described. While on 380mg/day of methadone i was hit with narcan while wide awake from some douchebag paramedic I was talking shit to while restrained. What a horrible feeling, its like being burnt with ice. Very painful. Within minutes i was spontaneously shitting myself. Never threw up though (but ive never thrown up from opioid withdrawal).

 

[muffin_man]

Crazy. You should have told them you were addicted to opioids (and not even mentioned the kratom). Then again, there is a 99% chance that they wouldnt have done anything differently. In that situation they'd just have you ride it out. Perhaps clonidine and benzos would have been the best protocol. A particularly bright ER doc would have gone for benzos + gabapentin + low dose clonidine perhaps.

Definitely wasn't alcohol withdrawal.

I know the feeling you described. While on 380mg/day of methadone i was hit with narcan while wide awake from some douchebag paramedic I was talking shit to while restrained. What a horrible feeling, its like being burnt with ice. Very painful. Within minutes i was spontaneously shitting myself. Never threw up though (but ive never thrown up from opioid withdrawal).

Oh wow, yeah, you know the feeling for sure.
I didn’t think kratom was just another opioid. I thought it was only “tickling” your receptors and not binding to them like the pills. In any case, we’re starting a taper plan on both alcohol and kratom. Gonna try to lower it by a shot every 3-4 days. Usually we have 5 shots at night to help get drowsy enough to seep (she has insomnia and I just have a hard time falling sleep). Really hope we can do this because life is hell when you’re a slave to this routine.

We do have gabapentin at home tho, would it be wise to take that during the tapering process?

Your response is much appreciated. Feeling very alone and helpless against this monster :/

 

[Xorkoth]

Contrary to what many believe, kratom is an opioid. It's a partial agonist as opposed to a full agonist like strong opiates, but it produces its high largely from the mu opioid receptor agonism, and produces withdrawals the same way. It IS an opioid, it's not a miracle plant that is like an opioid... it's a plant that IS an opioid.

 

[muffin_man]

Contrary to what many believe, kratom is an opioid. It's a partial agonist as opposed to a full agonist like strong opiates, but it produces its high largely from the mu opioid receptor agonism, and produces withdrawals the same way. It IS an opioid, it's not a miracle plant that is like an opioid... it's a plant that IS an opioid.

I’m realizing that now after yesterday’s events. I guess I’ll focus on tapering off of alcohol first cuz doing the 2 at once would not be an option with work and everything. Would you say the tapering for kratom would be equivalent to tapering from alcohol? Plan is to go from 5 shots every night to 4 shots 3 days later to 3 shots 3 days later to 2 shots 3 days later etc until there’s none to be had.

 

[negrogesic]

Do the alcohol first. Its easier.

You are very unlikely to experience physical alcohol withdrawal from that amount and dosing schedule. You really need to drink all day long for that to happen. Ive stopped an 8 drink a night habit (years of it) cold turkey and nothing happened. I was worried I'd experience physical withdrawal but it never happened. Take 75mg of diphenhydramine once you stop and you'll sleep fine. Probably.

Kratom is trickier. Especially considering you just went through severe withdrawal your receptors are going to be a bit raw so to speak.

Get some black seed oil capsules. They help abit with kratom withdrawal. Particularly the restlessness.

 

[muffin_man]

Your words and input are greatly appreciated. Thank you guys. I will definitely be back to let you know how things went/are going. Thank you for existing in this corner of the net and giving a shit. Helps a lot, for real.

 

[pcberk]

Hey All!

im a 4-5 year daily user of kratom. About 10mg in the am, 10 midday and 10 at night. Usually green or red strains. I was addicted to opiates in my early 20s (33 now) and also have been taking whiskey shots for sleep everyday for the last 4-5 years or so as well. Not a day without it so I never had withdrawals from the alcohol. My wife has been taking kratom and alcohol with me, just not as much. She received 50mg pills of naltrexone from her doctor. I had some naltrexone pills given to me by an old neighbor years ago that have been sitting in a cabinet. Last night we decided to take our first dose of naltrexone because we were wanting to get off the alcohol. About half an hour after ingesting the pill, our bodies started to feel very dizzy and sweaty and achy. My skin was both on fire and freezing cold. My legs became intensely restless and I was feeling so insanely unwell that I had to call 911. My wife was having the same symptoms just not as bad as mine. She was able to keep it together and stay home. She threw up and had diarrhea and sweating and pains and whatnot but she decided against the ER. They took me in. I have not felt pain like that since my early 20s when I didn’t have an oxy dose for a couple of days. My muscles were aching like never before, I could not stay still, curling back and forth almost like a snake, it was absolutely horrible. They said I was having alcohol withdrawals but I don’t think they knew just how kratom works. I think the naltrexone kicked off the kratom off of my receptors and that along with the alcohol abuse created my hell. They kept me at the hospital for about 8 hours monitoring me so I don’t have seizures, they gave me an IV and something to help with how I was feeling but nothing helped at all. When I got home around 3-4am, I tried to lay down to sleep but there was zero chance I was going to get any sleep. I felt extremely awake and aware of everything around me, vividly. It was horrible. Muscle aches and restlessness and mental confusion. I decided to have a couple of shots of whiskey and some weed, which helped a tiny little bit but even then it was hard to fall asleep. I got maybe 3-4 hours of sleep but my wife said I was kicking and punching in my sleep.
I had to turn to kratom in the morning and I took half of my usual dose, which helped calm my legs a bit, still not near normal until naltrexone gets out of my system, then I can start tapering off of both alcohol and kratom. I just want to be able to sleep but not sure how that will happen in the future.
Anyway. Just wanted to put this out there, if you have kratom in your system, especially years of daily use, DO NOT TAKE naltrexone until 7-14 days after your last dose. Kicked me into the depths of hell that I’m still trying to climb out of.

This is so true. I just experienced the exact same thing. I have a lot of injuries and stopped take pain pills and found kratrom. So have been taken Kratrom everyday morning, afternoon, night, whenever I have a jug of water and a bag. Stopped measuring years ago. Been fine no problems with it all have noticed more resistance to other pain meds. Had couple procedures done on my knees and the dosing they had to give of phenyl and versed were for a patient that is 400 lbs I way 210-They barely touch me. So I have always had a feeling that Kratom has adjusted the pathways like everything you read. The is a really good podcast called ToxNox episode 41 and they break it down so well, why it is good and where it is in the world today. For me personally I like Kratom, but am wondering if this recent experience will have to change things. I am in the public service section and I Drink too much beer on my days off. I need to cut back multiple reasons. So My doctor and I decided to try naltrexone 50mg. Yes it typically works to help people with opined additions but it is amazing for people who are trying to cut back on their drinking. Great studies that make people just find themselves not as interested in having a drink or they do have one possible not even finish it. There pretty amazing science behind it. But the Kratom was in the back of my mind. So I cut back over the weekend to once a day. Monday morning woke took the med and within 10 minites starting feeling it.
Head starting feeling fuzzy (thoughts), a little dizzy, almost disassociation, cold but not, tingling, uncomfortable in my own skin. I had already left for work So came back home called in sick to work. I laid in bed thinking that would help. but couldn't stay they-that snake description was PERFECT. I had to get up but then lay down. Pains everywhere-My knees were killing me and then my body would have like a full body convulsion-just full tightening up. I began to wretch but was not nauseous it was horrible. My wife took mt to the ER. They are so judgmental it drives me nuts. RN quickly says alcohol withdrawals. Basically told her no and leave. Doctor come-in I explain everything to him. He doesn't know anything about kratom , but thought this was a reaction to the medication. So IV with Torodol, Ativan, zofran and hung for a couple hours. I came home took a bath some gabapentin and klonipin and went to sleep. Felt a lot better the next day. As a test I took the medication (naltrexone 50gm) with out any response. I do feel a little tired. So I do wonder if the Naltrexone caused a rapid detox of the Katom out my system. It lasted from 7am till about 3pm. It was horrible. That next I was a little tired but not pain, body is sore from the convulsions, and the wretching. I would like for someone with a science background to confirm it. I am on this thread looking for similar situations. I think I am done with Kratom. I never want to feel that way ever ever again. Fingers crossed. Good luck everyone!!!!

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I have a lot of injuries and stopped take pain pills and found kratrom

Same here. Decades of opioids was getting tiresome and boring... not to mention expensive when my meds ran out.
Welcome to bl. There is almost anything here. I started typing in a drug for info and back then my browser would show entries to bl and off I went. Years later bl is effectively buried in a search and replaced with detox centers. haha What a switch.
Thanks for posting experience with this and feeling kinda bad that yall had to go through it. Sounds absolutely torturous.
Best wishes and hope to see ya around.

 

[Xorkoth]

Kratom does have some effects besides opioid effects, but the vast majority of its effects are due to mu opioid receptor partial agonism. So you'll probably feel a tiny bit, but it won't be much. I have tried taking kratom on suboxone (which also blocks opioids like naltrexone and can send you into PWD, though in suboxone's case, it's due to it being a super high affinity agonist, rather than antagonist), and I am pretty sure it does something... but so little as to possibly be placebo.