LandsUnknown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2014
- Messages
- 1,077
My Research On It/Things That I've Read About It
First off, I'm not a medical professional. And if someone knows more than me about the things I'm talking about in terms of specific figures/the research that I have done, please do let me know. Often, I see on forums like this one people saying things about how there's very little known about oral use of it, nobody knows how safe it is, that it's basically like an over the counter RC, etc. But I actually was able to find quite a bit of info about it from doing research online. Apparently, it actually was given to people orally for a variety of conditions, including as an appetite suppressant and also as an ingredient in a seizure medication to offset the sedation of the barbiturate. The medications it was in were/are barbexaclone, obesin, and eventin. These were the ones I saw though there may be others. According to JO drugs, it historically was given in divided doses of 50-150 milligrams daily. Though, the form of propylhexedrine that was used was the s-isomer of it, whereas what's in the inhalers is the racemic version. The s-isomer is believed to be a bit more biologically active, therefore the oral medications that were given to people were stronger milligram for milligram than the racemic version. In some cases, lower doses of around 25 milligrams were used as well, but it has been given in significantly higher doses than this orally.
It is a bit stronger in terms of alpha-adrenergic stimulation than amphetamine is. According to JO drugs, it's about 1/12th the potency of d-amphetamine in terms of CNS stimulation and 1/8 as strong as a "pressor", which I later found to mean as a vasoconstrictor. So, milligram for milligram it has more vasoconstrictive/PNS type effects, which I knew previously. Overall, it's far weaker milligram for milligram, which I realized. If I'm understanding correctly, what I read means that a given dose of propylhexedrine in mg gives the CNS effects that are equivalent to a dose of d-amp that's 1/12th the size. And in terms of vasoconstriction/blood pressure a dose of d-amp that's 1/8th the size. For some reason, injecting it is basically straight up deadly. But it's somewhat of a mystery as to why. For some reason, injecting it causes some type of problems with the brain stem, which is somewhat of a mystery. But apparently this isn't an issue with oral use, as it has actually been prescribed to people. But injecting it will likely kill you, though there is a bit of a mystery as to the overall mechanism behind this. Some say that it's because of vasoconstriction, but there appears to be something else going on with that as well. However, it's not true that no one has ever overdosed on the stuff taking it orally, which is something I've heard people say on r/drugs and similar places. Not that this is any surprise, it is a potent stimulant. Most of the overdoses involve people who took a lot of the stuff though. Though, there actually were a few people who overdosed from simply taking the whole 250mg in the inhaler. Not fatally, but there were a few individual case reports of people having serious symptoms/medically significant issues as a result of this, no idea as to whether they were previously healthy or had medical issues or any other info on it. Though, I don't think one can generalize the safety of a drug in entirety based on the reactions of one or a handful of individuals, as there are likely people who have had serious side effects that warranted medical attention from commonly used stimulants like Adderall or Ritalin. Or even from something seemingly innocuous like drinking a cup of coffee. Mostly though, the reports of overdoses involved people taking very large doses (e.g. people who had ingested numerous inhalers). For instance, there were reports of people overdosing after taking 4, 6, 8, 10 inhalers of the stuff at once.
All that I saw about why they stopped giving it to people orally is that "it was withdrawn from the market due to abuse" and "because of the addictive properties of the drug". Though, it doesn't make sense to me, because Adderall and Ritalin probably have been abused much more than the oral preparations of propylhexedrine, and they haven't been withdrawn from the market. However, I also didn't see anything to indicate that it was withdrawn from the market due to people having bad reactions to it when it was given to people orally or anything like that. I didn't see anything to indicate that the oral use of it was considered to be inherently damaging or anything like that. Overall, I couldn't exactly tell why it was taken off the market for oral use precisely, other than there having been "problems with abuse" of the substance. But really, I couldn't find anything about why it isn't currently used for any sort of oral medication. Some things that I have read have said that it causes "more damage" to the body than amphetamine due to the fact that milligram per milligram it has greater vasoconstrictive and blood pressure raising effects. And I have heard people saying that it's "worse than meth". But would this be true regardless of dosage? As I read, it has 1/8th the intensity as a "pressor" compared to amphetamine. So, unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't that basically mean that 250mg of it would cause the same level of vasoconstriction and cardiovascular/physical effects as a little over 30mg of d-amp? If so, it seems like all this talk about it being "worse than meth" and all would be kind of overstated. I suppose that an equivalent dose in terms of CNS effects would produce more strain on the body, given that it's 1/12th as potent as d-amp in terms of CNS effects and 1/8th as potent for vasoconstriction/blood pressure increasing properties. But still that would depend on how much the person took rather than it being a sign that propylhexedrine is inherently "worse for the body" than other stimulants, unless I'm mistaken? Unless I'm somehow not understanding something, it also seems like the effects of it when taken orally are somewhat well-understood if it was prescribed to people.
The only thing that seemed to paint the particular substance in a negative light was a piece from the LA Times saying titled "Abuse of Potentially Fatal Nasal Inhaler Medication By Injection Called Widespread". Clearly, by the headline, this piece has quite a sensationalist tone. And also, by nature, I am thinking that some of the things that the doctors were saying referred to IV abuse. Which given the research I have done on propylhexedrine, is quite different than the oral use of it unless I am mistaken. There are doctors saying things like that the whole issue is "self-limiting because a person who uses it for long enough is going to drop dead". And "if you use it long enough you're going to drop dead". Though, give my research I am inclined to think that this is dose-dependent. And one is not necessarily going to "drop dead" unless they take a dose that's strong enough to produce such effects. It was prescribed to people, which again makes me think that it's dose-dependent. And also this article was referring to IV use of the substance, which given my research produces very different effects than use of it orally. According to JO Drugs, oral "abuse" of the substance orally has the potential to produce neurological issues/brainstem problems that are not associated with oral use. And that the effects are different when taken in this manner. And the title of this article suggests it's not even about oral use of propylhexedrine, but IV use.
Though still, if it's like I'm understanding it to be, ingesting the extracted contents of an inhaler wouldn't really be that bad physically speaking? I mean if it were 1/8th as potent as d-amp in terms of its ability to increase blood pressure/cause vasoconstriction, then like I said physically it would produce effects that are equivalent to like 30mg or so of d-amp. Which is a decent bit, though not enough that would seem like something that's putting a crazy level of strain on the body either? Unless I am somehow missing something. I did see the thing about the brain stem dysfunction, but unless I'm wrong this only pertained to people who inject propylhexedrine. I didn't find anything to indicate that there are any propylhexedrine-specific side effects that couldn't happen as a result of the use of other stimulants, unless I'm mistaken about this? I did see some individual case reports of people who had bad reactions to the drug, though it was unclear if they had any pre-existing heart issues, etc. I didn't really see anything to indicate that it's necessarily all that bad in comparison to other stimulants, though from what I see as with any drug obviously it would seem like this is a matter of dosage more than anything. In other words, from what I saw it would seem like the average person extracting and ingesting the contents of an inhaler wouldn't be likely to experience any issues. But obviously someone with heart problems or someone otherwise prone to bad reactions to stimulants may. And that for the average person, if one were to take dangerously and absurdly large amounts of it they could OD and die. But that unless I'm mistaken, it's probably not inherently worse than any other stim physically speaking.
My Own Experiences With It
I have taken propylhexedrine a decent bit. In fact, I have used it perhaps 4-6 times per month for the last year or two, though I have not and wouldn't use crazy dosages of it. With no negative effects from it. One thing that I've noticed with it and some other people have noted is that mentally, the effects of propylhexedrine are very different than amphetamine. Some people have even described the effects as MDMA-like. I've never taken MDMA personally, but I have done classical psychedelics quite a lot (e.g. mushrooms, LSA, 2C-B, 25-I NBOME, and LSD). Obviously, I've never tripped on propylhexedrine, but I have experienced some vaguely psychedelic-esque stuff at a very mild level. Such as sharper vision and just certain tendencies of wandering with regard to my patterns of thought. Many people have referred to the experience as a "roll" rather than simply being "tweaked out". And say that it's like a "cross between MDMA and meth" in higher doses. I've never done MDMA, so I don't know. But I have noticed that, especially in higher doses, it seems to have some sort of empathogenic effect that can be quite strong. It may be similar to amphetamine physically, as JO drugs seemed to be comparing it to d-amphetamine in terms of effects in potency. Which may be true physically, but mentally...…. the stuff is different. Mentally, it really does seem to have these strong empathogenic qualities in high dosages. Given the research that I have done, I have found that other people have noticed this as well. Some have said that it has stronger effects as a serotonin releasing agent when compared with amphetamine. However, I was not able to find any clear evidence of this.
Though, this makes sense for sure given my experiences and the experiences of users who were calling it MDMA-like. If anyone has any information on this or it having more effects on serotonin receptors than amphetamine, I'd be interested to read about this. One other thing that I have noticed is that it has less of a productive push as amphetamine/Adderall. High doses don't tend to cause an increase of this either, as in high doses it tends to have a different sort of quality that's difficult to describe. But I can definitely see the people saying it has "empathogenic" effects at high doses. I've done it at times simply because I ran out of Adderall and wanted to take a stim of some kind. Yet other times, I have honestly did it because I really enjoy the effects. And have found the empathogenic/euphoric properties to be quite intense, even beautiful at higher doses. And also, even at lower doses, it has a unique sort of effect. I'd be very interested to see if this is true that it has more strongly serotonergic effects when compared to amphetamine. I have seen this said many times but never saw any info specifically saying that, though I could see this for sure. I've also noticed that at times, I feel like it helps to enhance my overall creativity somewhat, but obviously this is something that's quite subjective by nature.
As for negative side effects, I have noticed that at times it has taken a bit of time to get a stream going when taking a piss. Nothing crazy, not like urinary backup or anything like that. Just that it took a little while to get a stream going. Not every time, but I've gotten this sometimes. I have gotten this to some extent from Adderall as well. But not to the same degree. But then I usually do not take more than 25mg of Adderall XR, so I would imagine that it would probably be possible to get this side effect from Adderall or any amphetamine-type stimulant with the right dosage. Also, I'll say that there was once when after taking a bit less than 250mg of propylhexedrine (e.g. the whole soda I extracted it with, without chewing the cotton/using a straw to suck it out/sucking on it) I took my own pulse in the same way that I learned during first aid courses that I took. And it was not or barely even elevated. My pulse was like 60-70 BPM or so, my resting heart rate has been as low as 55-60 BPM with nothing. So, perhaps it was a slight increase. But fairly minimal. And interestingly, less than I've gotten from even having a cup of coffee (e.g. I only drink coffee when I do not take other stims, and when I do I usually drink 24-32oz of it or more as sometimes I feel a bit sluggish if I do not take a proper stim lol). The only noteworthy side effects that I've gotten is that I have felt rather nauseous at times, but this is not something I've noticed in recent times (perhaps partly due to the fact that I tend to space out my intake of propylhexedrine when I use it nowadays rather than taking the whole inhaler's worth of it right at once). And/or that my body has adjusted to its effects to some degree. Sometimes, I have had a bit of heart palpitations, though I get this from Adderall as well. I also have gotten a headache from it, at times. Particularly on the comedown. I have gotten headaches from Adderall as well, but the propylhexedrine headaches I've had seemed to have a somewhat different quality. Though, I do not get this either to any great extent anymore. Also, another important thing to note is that I tend to be quite prone to headaches and have had symptoms of migraines. Even without taking this stuff or any stim.
P.S.
Do not eat the cotton. Extract the propylhexedrine and if you wish, chew/suck on the cotton or use a straw to get the rest out. Do not eat the cotton as it can cause a bowel obstruction (e.g. the block prevents you from taking a dump and everything has nowhere to go but up 8(, not the sort of thing worth chancing IMO). Also, getting it out of the cotton is very easy to say the least
http://www.jodrugs.com/products/37937-propylhexedrine.aspx
https://drugsdetails.com/propylhexedrine-uses-side-effects-abuse-high-drug-test-addiction/
http://www.jodrugs.com/toxicologies/3824-propylhexedrine.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5741979/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylhexedrine
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-09-05-mn-24755-story.html
First off, I'm not a medical professional. And if someone knows more than me about the things I'm talking about in terms of specific figures/the research that I have done, please do let me know. Often, I see on forums like this one people saying things about how there's very little known about oral use of it, nobody knows how safe it is, that it's basically like an over the counter RC, etc. But I actually was able to find quite a bit of info about it from doing research online. Apparently, it actually was given to people orally for a variety of conditions, including as an appetite suppressant and also as an ingredient in a seizure medication to offset the sedation of the barbiturate. The medications it was in were/are barbexaclone, obesin, and eventin. These were the ones I saw though there may be others. According to JO drugs, it historically was given in divided doses of 50-150 milligrams daily. Though, the form of propylhexedrine that was used was the s-isomer of it, whereas what's in the inhalers is the racemic version. The s-isomer is believed to be a bit more biologically active, therefore the oral medications that were given to people were stronger milligram for milligram than the racemic version. In some cases, lower doses of around 25 milligrams were used as well, but it has been given in significantly higher doses than this orally.
It is a bit stronger in terms of alpha-adrenergic stimulation than amphetamine is. According to JO drugs, it's about 1/12th the potency of d-amphetamine in terms of CNS stimulation and 1/8 as strong as a "pressor", which I later found to mean as a vasoconstrictor. So, milligram for milligram it has more vasoconstrictive/PNS type effects, which I knew previously. Overall, it's far weaker milligram for milligram, which I realized. If I'm understanding correctly, what I read means that a given dose of propylhexedrine in mg gives the CNS effects that are equivalent to a dose of d-amp that's 1/12th the size. And in terms of vasoconstriction/blood pressure a dose of d-amp that's 1/8th the size. For some reason, injecting it is basically straight up deadly. But it's somewhat of a mystery as to why. For some reason, injecting it causes some type of problems with the brain stem, which is somewhat of a mystery. But apparently this isn't an issue with oral use, as it has actually been prescribed to people. But injecting it will likely kill you, though there is a bit of a mystery as to the overall mechanism behind this. Some say that it's because of vasoconstriction, but there appears to be something else going on with that as well. However, it's not true that no one has ever overdosed on the stuff taking it orally, which is something I've heard people say on r/drugs and similar places. Not that this is any surprise, it is a potent stimulant. Most of the overdoses involve people who took a lot of the stuff though. Though, there actually were a few people who overdosed from simply taking the whole 250mg in the inhaler. Not fatally, but there were a few individual case reports of people having serious symptoms/medically significant issues as a result of this, no idea as to whether they were previously healthy or had medical issues or any other info on it. Though, I don't think one can generalize the safety of a drug in entirety based on the reactions of one or a handful of individuals, as there are likely people who have had serious side effects that warranted medical attention from commonly used stimulants like Adderall or Ritalin. Or even from something seemingly innocuous like drinking a cup of coffee. Mostly though, the reports of overdoses involved people taking very large doses (e.g. people who had ingested numerous inhalers). For instance, there were reports of people overdosing after taking 4, 6, 8, 10 inhalers of the stuff at once.
All that I saw about why they stopped giving it to people orally is that "it was withdrawn from the market due to abuse" and "because of the addictive properties of the drug". Though, it doesn't make sense to me, because Adderall and Ritalin probably have been abused much more than the oral preparations of propylhexedrine, and they haven't been withdrawn from the market. However, I also didn't see anything to indicate that it was withdrawn from the market due to people having bad reactions to it when it was given to people orally or anything like that. I didn't see anything to indicate that the oral use of it was considered to be inherently damaging or anything like that. Overall, I couldn't exactly tell why it was taken off the market for oral use precisely, other than there having been "problems with abuse" of the substance. But really, I couldn't find anything about why it isn't currently used for any sort of oral medication. Some things that I have read have said that it causes "more damage" to the body than amphetamine due to the fact that milligram per milligram it has greater vasoconstrictive and blood pressure raising effects. And I have heard people saying that it's "worse than meth". But would this be true regardless of dosage? As I read, it has 1/8th the intensity as a "pressor" compared to amphetamine. So, unless I'm mistaken, wouldn't that basically mean that 250mg of it would cause the same level of vasoconstriction and cardiovascular/physical effects as a little over 30mg of d-amp? If so, it seems like all this talk about it being "worse than meth" and all would be kind of overstated. I suppose that an equivalent dose in terms of CNS effects would produce more strain on the body, given that it's 1/12th as potent as d-amp in terms of CNS effects and 1/8th as potent for vasoconstriction/blood pressure increasing properties. But still that would depend on how much the person took rather than it being a sign that propylhexedrine is inherently "worse for the body" than other stimulants, unless I'm mistaken? Unless I'm somehow not understanding something, it also seems like the effects of it when taken orally are somewhat well-understood if it was prescribed to people.
The only thing that seemed to paint the particular substance in a negative light was a piece from the LA Times saying titled "Abuse of Potentially Fatal Nasal Inhaler Medication By Injection Called Widespread". Clearly, by the headline, this piece has quite a sensationalist tone. And also, by nature, I am thinking that some of the things that the doctors were saying referred to IV abuse. Which given the research I have done on propylhexedrine, is quite different than the oral use of it unless I am mistaken. There are doctors saying things like that the whole issue is "self-limiting because a person who uses it for long enough is going to drop dead". And "if you use it long enough you're going to drop dead". Though, give my research I am inclined to think that this is dose-dependent. And one is not necessarily going to "drop dead" unless they take a dose that's strong enough to produce such effects. It was prescribed to people, which again makes me think that it's dose-dependent. And also this article was referring to IV use of the substance, which given my research produces very different effects than use of it orally. According to JO Drugs, oral "abuse" of the substance orally has the potential to produce neurological issues/brainstem problems that are not associated with oral use. And that the effects are different when taken in this manner. And the title of this article suggests it's not even about oral use of propylhexedrine, but IV use.
Though still, if it's like I'm understanding it to be, ingesting the extracted contents of an inhaler wouldn't really be that bad physically speaking? I mean if it were 1/8th as potent as d-amp in terms of its ability to increase blood pressure/cause vasoconstriction, then like I said physically it would produce effects that are equivalent to like 30mg or so of d-amp. Which is a decent bit, though not enough that would seem like something that's putting a crazy level of strain on the body either? Unless I am somehow missing something. I did see the thing about the brain stem dysfunction, but unless I'm wrong this only pertained to people who inject propylhexedrine. I didn't find anything to indicate that there are any propylhexedrine-specific side effects that couldn't happen as a result of the use of other stimulants, unless I'm mistaken about this? I did see some individual case reports of people who had bad reactions to the drug, though it was unclear if they had any pre-existing heart issues, etc. I didn't really see anything to indicate that it's necessarily all that bad in comparison to other stimulants, though from what I see as with any drug obviously it would seem like this is a matter of dosage more than anything. In other words, from what I saw it would seem like the average person extracting and ingesting the contents of an inhaler wouldn't be likely to experience any issues. But obviously someone with heart problems or someone otherwise prone to bad reactions to stimulants may. And that for the average person, if one were to take dangerously and absurdly large amounts of it they could OD and die. But that unless I'm mistaken, it's probably not inherently worse than any other stim physically speaking.
My Own Experiences With It
I have taken propylhexedrine a decent bit. In fact, I have used it perhaps 4-6 times per month for the last year or two, though I have not and wouldn't use crazy dosages of it. With no negative effects from it. One thing that I've noticed with it and some other people have noted is that mentally, the effects of propylhexedrine are very different than amphetamine. Some people have even described the effects as MDMA-like. I've never taken MDMA personally, but I have done classical psychedelics quite a lot (e.g. mushrooms, LSA, 2C-B, 25-I NBOME, and LSD). Obviously, I've never tripped on propylhexedrine, but I have experienced some vaguely psychedelic-esque stuff at a very mild level. Such as sharper vision and just certain tendencies of wandering with regard to my patterns of thought. Many people have referred to the experience as a "roll" rather than simply being "tweaked out". And say that it's like a "cross between MDMA and meth" in higher doses. I've never done MDMA, so I don't know. But I have noticed that, especially in higher doses, it seems to have some sort of empathogenic effect that can be quite strong. It may be similar to amphetamine physically, as JO drugs seemed to be comparing it to d-amphetamine in terms of effects in potency. Which may be true physically, but mentally...…. the stuff is different. Mentally, it really does seem to have these strong empathogenic qualities in high dosages. Given the research that I have done, I have found that other people have noticed this as well. Some have said that it has stronger effects as a serotonin releasing agent when compared with amphetamine. However, I was not able to find any clear evidence of this.
Though, this makes sense for sure given my experiences and the experiences of users who were calling it MDMA-like. If anyone has any information on this or it having more effects on serotonin receptors than amphetamine, I'd be interested to read about this. One other thing that I have noticed is that it has less of a productive push as amphetamine/Adderall. High doses don't tend to cause an increase of this either, as in high doses it tends to have a different sort of quality that's difficult to describe. But I can definitely see the people saying it has "empathogenic" effects at high doses. I've done it at times simply because I ran out of Adderall and wanted to take a stim of some kind. Yet other times, I have honestly did it because I really enjoy the effects. And have found the empathogenic/euphoric properties to be quite intense, even beautiful at higher doses. And also, even at lower doses, it has a unique sort of effect. I'd be very interested to see if this is true that it has more strongly serotonergic effects when compared to amphetamine. I have seen this said many times but never saw any info specifically saying that, though I could see this for sure. I've also noticed that at times, I feel like it helps to enhance my overall creativity somewhat, but obviously this is something that's quite subjective by nature.
As for negative side effects, I have noticed that at times it has taken a bit of time to get a stream going when taking a piss. Nothing crazy, not like urinary backup or anything like that. Just that it took a little while to get a stream going. Not every time, but I've gotten this sometimes. I have gotten this to some extent from Adderall as well. But not to the same degree. But then I usually do not take more than 25mg of Adderall XR, so I would imagine that it would probably be possible to get this side effect from Adderall or any amphetamine-type stimulant with the right dosage. Also, I'll say that there was once when after taking a bit less than 250mg of propylhexedrine (e.g. the whole soda I extracted it with, without chewing the cotton/using a straw to suck it out/sucking on it) I took my own pulse in the same way that I learned during first aid courses that I took. And it was not or barely even elevated. My pulse was like 60-70 BPM or so, my resting heart rate has been as low as 55-60 BPM with nothing. So, perhaps it was a slight increase. But fairly minimal. And interestingly, less than I've gotten from even having a cup of coffee (e.g. I only drink coffee when I do not take other stims, and when I do I usually drink 24-32oz of it or more as sometimes I feel a bit sluggish if I do not take a proper stim lol). The only noteworthy side effects that I've gotten is that I have felt rather nauseous at times, but this is not something I've noticed in recent times (perhaps partly due to the fact that I tend to space out my intake of propylhexedrine when I use it nowadays rather than taking the whole inhaler's worth of it right at once). And/or that my body has adjusted to its effects to some degree. Sometimes, I have had a bit of heart palpitations, though I get this from Adderall as well. I also have gotten a headache from it, at times. Particularly on the comedown. I have gotten headaches from Adderall as well, but the propylhexedrine headaches I've had seemed to have a somewhat different quality. Though, I do not get this either to any great extent anymore. Also, another important thing to note is that I tend to be quite prone to headaches and have had symptoms of migraines. Even without taking this stuff or any stim.
P.S.
Do not eat the cotton. Extract the propylhexedrine and if you wish, chew/suck on the cotton or use a straw to get the rest out. Do not eat the cotton as it can cause a bowel obstruction (e.g. the block prevents you from taking a dump and everything has nowhere to go but up 8(, not the sort of thing worth chancing IMO). Also, getting it out of the cotton is very easy to say the least
http://www.jodrugs.com/products/37937-propylhexedrine.aspx
https://drugsdetails.com/propylhexedrine-uses-side-effects-abuse-high-drug-test-addiction/
http://www.jodrugs.com/toxicologies/3824-propylhexedrine.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5741979/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylhexedrine
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-09-05-mn-24755-story.html
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