My Derealization

[Luciiz]

I'll try and make this as simple as possible.

I've had derealization - Wikipedia has the best version I can put - "Derealization (DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems strange or unreal. Other symptoms include feeling as though one's environment is lacking in spontaneity, emotional colouring and depth"

Trust me, it's real. It's intense and has been ruining every day of my life for the year I've had it.

I've had sticky mucous dripping down from my sinuses when I smoked what I think was moldy cannabis last summer. This caused pain in my head and these weird derealization feelings, leading to panic attacks. I've never had panic attacks, anxiety, depression, derealization or depersonalization or any other psychological conditions before this. I had derealization at this point on and off. I then smoked Salvia divinorum - and this made it permanent. I remember it crystal clear like it was yesterday - Salvia did it.

I found the site dpselfhelp.com which has a lot of depersonalization sufferers. However when made a poll on there in this thread: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20298

(for those of you not registered the results were 21 feeling feelings of depersonalization and or derealization and only ONE feeling derealization - Me.

And then I found this thread on the same site: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20559

which states "He also refers to a kappa anti-opioid drug which I think may be in the pipeline. It is the kappa part of the antiopioids which are relevant to DP. Neither naxolone not naltrexalone are specific to this constituent and yet naxolone as an injection has caused the DP to remit completely in some of the subjects of an experiment in 2001 which Dr. Sierra describes."

I've also found many sites on google that claim kappa opioid antagonists (opposite to salvinorin A - an agonist) can help psychological conditions and in my case especially (because of salvia) - with no previous mental health conditions - could be true. It's not even mental - it's purely visual cutoff perception with the world. And it's fucking annoying.

I've been to the doctor about the sinus infection and had a CT scan which showed nothing despite spitting out thick, sticky clear mucous out everytime I take a drink/bite to eat. The antibiotics do nothing. I guess it's got to be fungal.

The ONLY time the derealization has left me for 12 hours in the past year is when for the ifrst time I forced myself to sneeze and something pressurized behind my right eye caused me to cry, and the world suddenly became unhazy again. Just like that. At a sneeze. The derealization then creeped up on me the next day. I didn't even try to get rid of it.

Also, when I overdosed on GBL and sent to hospital, they gave me naloxone which made me feel less derealized for the night.

So, I've just told all this to the doctor. I don't particular care about the sinus infection the most - it's the derealization that's really getting me down.

So what do I ask my doctor for (he has never heard of derealization, and I'm sure most of you havn't)? A Kappa opioid antagonist? Naltrexone?

 

[Hammilton]

Buprenorphine is a kappa antagonist, though I doubt it'll be very useful. Check out the affinities for naloxone and naltrexone. They're antagonists, but I don't know about their affinity for kappa, it might be quite low.

Cannabis didn't cause the mucus. A fungul infection wouldn't produce the symptoms you describe, that's obviously out. Try those inhaler things, either the L-meth or the hexahydrometh ones (I'm forgeting the actual name for the latter, someone will know it) or maybe mucinex.

 

[Luciiz]

Buprenorphine is a kappa antagonist, though I doubt it'll be very useful. Check out the affinities for naloxone and naltrexone. They're antagonists, but I don't know about their affinity for kappa, it might be quite low.

Cannabis didn't cause the mucus. A fungul infection wouldn't produce the symptoms you describe, that's obviously out. Try those inhaler things, either the L-meth or the hexahydrometh ones (I'm forgeting the actual name for the latter, someone will know it) or maybe mucinex.

I think it was the weed. It had brown black spots on it and I did it anyway because I was young and stupid. The mucous began in the next day or two. And a fungal sinus infection "allergic fungal sinusitis" does produce thick clear mucus.

I'm waiting for a blood test from my doctor. This is a serious mucous problem. When I do a sinus rinse, I make a hypertonic salt solution with boiled then cooled water, put my head down the back of my bed so its 180 degrees, then squeeze the bottle with the solution in, leave it 15 seconds, and then spit out a load of mucous. And by the end of the solution, theres a buckload of thick, sticky clear mucous. All in my head. Every day. It's fucked up.

 

[The Chemist]

i'm going through this and Depersonalization right now, i completely sympathize with you.

 

[Hammilton]

I think it was the weed. It had brown black spots on it and I did it anyway because I was young and stupid. The mucous began in the next day or two. And a fungal sinus infection "allergic fungal sinusitis" does produce thick clear mucus.

I'm waiting for a blood test from my doctor. This is a serious mucous problem. When I do a sinus rinse, I make a hypertonic salt solution with boiled then cooled water, put my head down the back of my bed so its 180 degrees, then squeeze the bottle with the solution in, leave it 15 seconds, and then spit out a load of mucous. And by the end of the solution, theres a buckload of thick, sticky clear mucous. All in my head. Every day. It's fucked up.

Over the past 2 decades, allergic fungal sinusitis (AFS) has become increasingly defined. Historically mistaken for a paranasal sinus tumor, allergic fungal sinusitis (AFS) now is believed to be an allergic reaction to aerosolized environmental fungi, usually of the dematiaceous species, in an immunocompetent host. This is in contrast to invasive fungal infections that affect immunocompromised hosts, such as patients with diabetes mellitus and patients with AIDS. Most patients with allergic fungal sinusitis (AFS) have a history of allergic rhinitis, and the exact timing of allergic fungal sinusitis (AFS) development can be difficult to discern. Thick fungal debris and mucin are developed in the sinus cavities and must be surgically removed so that the inciting allergen is no longer present. Recurrence is not uncommon once the disease is removed. Anti-inflammatory medical therapy and immunotherapy are being employed to help prevent recurrence.

Doesnt seem to be the case.

 

[Luciiz]

Doesnt seem to be the case.

Well what do I have then?

 

[dread]

hexahydrometh ones (I'm forgeting the actual name for the latter, someone will know it) or maybe mucinex.

propylhexedrine?

Anyway, buprenorphine should be effective as a kappa antagonist. I've never had any effects from salvia when I've tried it while being on buprenorphine. So you could give it a try. However it's easy to get addicted on the stuff, so start with extra low dosages.

Naloxone/naltrexone would of course have the plus sides that they won't get you addicted. So maybe you should try those before trying buprenorphine.

 

[hamhurricane]

naltrexone is relatively easy to get, naloxone not so much. i suggest you get some naltrexone tablets and find out for yourself (carefully titrating the dose of course).

 

[theWorldWithin]

Buddy I hate to be the bringer of bad news here but you are clearly a wack job. Do you have any idea how crazy your "fungus to DP/DR" hypothesis sounds? Also it is no coincidence that you became depersonalized after cannabis and salvia, clearly you are a bit mental and the psychedelics triggered an underlying condition (or triggered a new one depending upon your school of thought). I think you need to stop pursuing this fungus idea and get evaluated professionally to find out what is wrong with you. I'm not saying you are a mentally crippled crazy loon, but it is clear there is something a bit different about your thinking process. Figuring this out early will save you a lot of medicated, committed, suffering in the long run.

 

[Luciiz]

Buddy I hate to be the bringer of bad news here but you are clearly a wack job. Do you have any idea how crazy your "fungus to DP/DR" hypothesis sounds? Also it is no coincidence that you became depersonalized after cannabis and salvia, clearly you are a bit mental and the psychedelics triggered an underlying condition (or triggered a new one depending upon your school of thought). I think you need to stop pursuing this fungus idea and get evaluated professionally to find out what is wrong with you. I'm not saying you are a mentally crippled crazy loon, but it is clear there is something a bit different about your thinking process. Figuring this out early will save you a lot of medicated, committed, suffering in the long run.

Nope, I've had no change in thought processes, just derealization - there's a forum dedicated to it in the link. Obviously I cannot convey this to you over the internet, and if you'd see the sticky mucus that comes out of my mouth every time I take a sip of water you'd be able to see something was up.

I'm just kind of desperate to get rid of the two though...

 

[daddysgone]

Buddy I hate to be the bringer of bad news here but you are clearly a wack job. Do you have any idea how crazy your "fungus to DP/DR" hypothesis sounds? Also it is no coincidence that you became depersonalized after cannabis and salvia, clearly you are a bit mental and the psychedelics triggered an underlying condition (or triggered a new one depending upon your school of thought). I think you need to stop pursuing this fungus idea and get evaluated professionally to find out what is wrong with you. I'm not saying you are a mentally crippled crazy loon, but it is clear there is something a bit different about your thinking process. Figuring this out early will save you a lot of medicated, committed, suffering in the long run.

Dont be thick. Based on what the OP has told us, no one could say with any certainty, what is going on here. For you to say he is "clearly a wack job" is not just rude and pointless, but also has no basis. Im going to go out on a limb and assume that you aren't a doctor, and likely not an expert on fungus and what effects it can cause.
Now Im not saying that I believe that the moldy weed is the source of this guys problems, but Im not going to just throw out the possibility and label him "a wack job", just because it sounds a bit far fetched.

My advice to the OP: If you are really convinced this is the source of your problems, seek an EXPERT in this field. I know this can be costly and difficult, but if you are suffering as much as you seem to be, and are convinced it is due to the mold, you owe it to yourself to see an expert in this field who will be able to tell you if your theory is accurate, or if you are barking up the wrong tree and need to pursue other avenues.

One thing Ive learned in my medical training is to listen to your body- I know that is a terrible cliche, but it is often overlooked. This is not at all to say that your body will always let you know what is wrong, but if you feel everything pointing in one particular direction, you'd be a fool not to investigate. As I said, seeing an expert will likely let you know if your suspicions are warranted, or if you are looking in the wrong place. Either way its win win. good luck-DG

 

[Hammilton]

but also has no basis. Im going to go out on a limb and assume that you aren't a doctor, and likely not an expert on fungus and what effects it can cause.

No, anyone who would conclude that moldy weed was the problem is a little soft in the head, that's obvious. You don't need to be an expert to know that the symptoms being described aren't related to fungus.

One thing Ive learned in my medical training is to listen to your body- I know that is a terrible cliche, but it is often overlooked. This is not at all to say that your body will always let you know what is wrong, but if you feel everything pointing in one particular direction, you'd be a fool not to investigate.

Actually, as most doctors will tell you, people aren't good at knowing what causes their problems. Quite bad at it actually. Self diagnosis inthe world of the internet is rampant, and very ineffective.

Your body will tell you when something is wrong- but in those with mental issues, as this person is suggesting, interpreting normal stimuli as problems is not uncommon.

 

[daddysgone]

Geez......

Fine, don't listen to any suspicions or intuitions you may have regarding your own health. In fact, be sure to completely ignore all avenues that you think might be the cause of your health issues.

 

[Hammilton]

Probably a good idea. When it comes to diagnosis, people are notoriously bad at doing it to themselves.

Treatment, probably even worse.

You can tell if you have a headache, you probably won't diagnose a fungal infection in your sinuses, though.

 

[daddysgone]

Probably a good idea. When it comes to diagnosis, people are notoriously bad at doing it to themselves.

Treatment, probably even worse.

You can tell if you have a headache, you probably won't diagnose a fungal infection in your sinuses, though.

I understand what you are saying, but really, I have no idea why you are arguing with my post/advice.

I encouraged the guy to have an expert check out the mold possibility, which he has obviously convinced himself is the route of the problem. Whether or not mold is the culpret (and I agree that it's highly unlikely), he owes it to himself to have it checked out. Until someone in a position of authority tells him that he's barking up the wrong tree, this question will always loom in his mind. This is true for all chronically ill people who have not received a diagnosis. You seem to suggest that people in this position NOT pursue the avenue which is of greatest concern to them. What kind of advice is that?
If he goes and sees a specialist in this field, one of 2 things will happen. The specialist will confirm his suspicions (unlikely), or he will put his mind at ease that mold is not the culprit. The sooner he can check that off the list definitively, the sooner he will be willing to pursue more likely causes.

For you to say that its "probably a good idea" for people to intentionally NOT pursue the avenues which they feel, for whatever reason, are responsible for their illness, is just absurd.

Also, you keep referring to "self diagnosis". I completely agree that the internet (and world) are rampant with people making foolish self-diagnoses. However, there is a big difference between a self-diagnosis, complete with self-treatment, and simply seeing a specialist in the field which you "sense" might be responsible for your illness. I see absolutely no down-side in someone listening to their body or intuition, however illogical it may be, and seeking the opinion in the related field, but there are plenty of upsides.


PS-at the risk of sounding like a ditzy, naive, yoga-devotee (which is as far away from what I am as possible), I will happily attest to MANY (not just a few) cases where patients have presented with symptoms that were not even remotely suggestive of disorders or illnesses which they nonetheless, felt with great conviction, were stricken with. And I have been truly astonished in many of these situations to eventually discover that the cause of these patients' symptoms, turned out to be the very thing which these patients so adamantly maintained was responsible. And I am not talking about something mundane like a patient who presents with textbook symptoms for diabetes, suggests that he believes it to be diabetes, and it then turn out that it is diabetes. I am talking about situations where a patient presents with a set of symptoms, and then professes his certainty that his symptoms are due to something which I could not find any logical reason to suspect he may be correct. I am telling you that I have seen many situations like this, where it turns out the patient was either dead right, or else led us down the path which led to his diagnosis.

So, in some ways I completely agree with you that people are often terrible at self-diagnosis. Their judgment is often clouded by fears, life experience, and many other factors which have nothing at all to do with a logical approach to diagnostics. However, I cannot ignore the many many situations where a patient has explained his symptoms, offered his opinion regarding what is causing them, and despite the fact that their theory not only didnt occur to me, but seemed unlikely, bordering on impossible, we ultimately discover that their suspicions had been right all along. You can ascribe cases like this to coincidence, an atypical presentation of a certain illness, or simply reason that given enough patients, one will see every type of bizarre twist and outcome, and all can be explained by the large sample size. Im sure all of these things factor in, but I cannot be dissuaded that people are often capable of having some sort of special knowledge regarding their health and what may be causing their illness.
And while anyone in the medical field would be foolish to rely too heavily on unscientific, vague things like "patient intuition", I firmly believe its equally naive and close-minded to completely discount the potential insight that can be gained by exploring possibilities that make sense to the patient, even if they seem unlikely to you.-DG

 

[Shaywinters]

I hope you still get this years later! I've had derealization practically my whole 30+ years. Finally I found the answer: yeast. After taking Diflucan for a random yeast infection (feminine issue), my derealization was GONE!! Within 1-2 days I was feeling NORMAL. I had forgotten what that felt like! Don't give up! Fungus and derealization definitely are related for some people. I hope you find the meds or herbs you need to treat yourself. My alternative dr figured this out in my first visit. I didn't believe her until 3 years later. Lol What time I wasted!! You know your body better than anyone - even medical Drs. Never lose faith in yourself!!

 

[drinkfekarse]

re your kappa antagonist quest, CERC-501 sounds like it could be interesting. Obtaining it is another matter. Good luck, and hope you get relief. I have had bouts of depersonalization , thankfully only fleeting.

 

[adder]

I've been suffering from derealization/depresonalization (they are interrelated, and another term for this is dissociation) since I quit benzodiazepines or perhaps for much longer when I was still taking them. A year before I quit benzodiazepines, I quit methadone and shortly after started taking buprenorphine, and one thing I can say is that it doesn't do anything for that, at least it's far from a solution. However, being a partial mu agonist perhaps it might add to derealization by blocking GABA release via mu agonism. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is merely over-active glutamate system along with desensitized GABA receptors and GABA release impeded, I presume, thus any additional negative factor impacting GABA release can worsen dissociation. I've been struggling with it for over 2 years now, although my dissociative episodes are much different in nature than my early derealization/depersonalization symptoms right after quitting benzodiazepines, they're making doing basic stuff almost impossible which is debilitating. However, I stopped believing that you could easily fix any so-called psychological/psychiatric condition if only you had the right medication, nothing is going to work if your relationship with your environment doesn't favour recovery (unless your condition is caused by chemical/biological factors). After all a lot of psychiatric conditions simply come from social problems.