Opioids Morphine/Down to 50mg, how hard would Cold Turkeying be right now

[Branggen]

Well Im down pretty low, after a year of tapering and cutting out heroin/cocaine I am down from 1000 mg of morphine daily to 50mg. I started fentanyl around 6 years ago and have been on either methadone, suboxone or morphine for 5 years. I dont plan to jump off yet, but considering instant morphine has to be dosed every 4-6 hours my dose is something equivalent to like 10mg every 5 hours. (I get a 24hr sustained release form, taken once a day).

Now, I have read that the threshold (minimum) morphine dose is something like 10mg for a single dose. Do you guys think that if I get down to say 30mg, (6mg every 5 hours) that I should have minimal withdrawals trying to cold turkey that? I feel like if I am taking (the equivalent of) half the threshold dose in instant release it cant be too bad right, even if its every 5 hours. What do yall think?

10mg morphine is equivelent to 6.5mg oxy

 

[HoldBack]

50 mg morphine is definitely a low dose for an addict with tolerance (and I assume oral use given the ER).

However, I think there’s still going to be significant withdrawal. It will be mostly mental but in my experience, the brain easily exaggerates your physical symptoms.

a six year run with drug switching I think just pushes your tolerance (and therefore the subsequent withdrawal is worse.

I understand that when a junkie wants to quit, they want to quit now. In my opinion keep a taper going for six months. It is just a smoother way to do it that I think keeps the relapse risk lower.

 

[Branggen]

@HoldBack
Hey, I do plan on tapering more, recently been doing 10mg/2 weeks and I think Ill probably have to continue doing that as 10mg is the lowest dose of these pills. That would have me done in 2.5 months, might end up slowing if needed.
Ive learned to deal with a lot of the mental withdrawals having experienced them as ive tapered, most nights I wake up and am just so restless I cant fall back asleep but you get used to it and I am quite positive and happy these days.

For whatever reason having faith that there is a creator, and this whole universe wasn't just somehow shat out via some sort of evolution, has made it 100% easier to deal with the the rough withdrawals. I was never religious but after a few really tough withdrawals I found that that worldview was very conducive to my sobriety, probably the thing that has kept me from using many many times. Im not sure if god is real but Im believing for now because it has been so good for me.

 

[HoldBack]

@HoldBack
Hey, I do plan on tapering more, recently been doing 10mg/2 weeks and I think Ill probably have to continue doing that as 10mg is the lowest dose of these pills. That would have me done in 2.5 months, might end up slowing if needed.
Ive learned to deal with a lot of the mental withdrawals having experienced them as ive tapered, most nights I wake up and am just so restless I cant fall back asleep but you get used to it and I am quite positive and happy these days.

For whatever reason having faith that there is a creator, and this whole universe wasn't just somehow shat out via some sort of evolution, has made it 100% easier to deal with the the rough withdrawals. I was never religious but after a few really tough withdrawals I found that that worldview was very conducive to my sobriety, probably the thing that has kept me from using many many times. Im not sure if god is real but Im believing for now because it has been so good for me.

Your lengthy experience with tapering is why I recommend continuing to do it rather than jumping off.

i absolutely agree with you that God (or however you assign meaning to your life) is so vitally important to staying sober, I know it’s impossIble for me if I’m in that mindset of “what’s the point?”

I stand by my recommendation to continue to taper, the length of which is not so important (especially because it sounds like you’re on very solid footing and made the right changes in your life).

How old are you if you don’t mind me asking? My life is infinitely better than it was a few years ago but I have a long long way to go.

 

[JessFR]

50 mg morphine is definitely a low dose for an addict with tolerance (and I assume oral use given the ER).

However, I think there’s still going to be significant withdrawal. It will be mostly mental but in my experience, the brain easily exaggerates your physical symptoms.

a six year run with drug switching I think just pushes your tolerance (and therefore the subsequent withdrawal is worse.

I understand that when a junkie wants to quit, they want to quit now. In my opinion keep a taper going for six months. It is just a smoother way to do it that I think keeps the relapse risk lower.

I definitely agree with this.

50mg morphine isn't all that high of a tolerance all things considered, but it's still well above opioid naive. I suspect it'll still result in quite unpleasant withdrawal.

EDIT: Sorry I missed where you said extended release. Yeah that should be better. I'm not sure. I don't have enough experience with your kind situation to feel confident guessing.

 

[Branggen]

@HoldBack
Good morning, Im in my early 20s so I still have a lot to look forward too, Id say my age is a big thing that helped me make the decision, I don't know how much longer I could have gone on for like that and still had a chance to go back, after 5 or 6 years, I sort of felt like I was nearing the point of no return, at least without a lot more difficulties.

Glad to hear you have made good changes in your life in the past years that's what I think matters a step however small as long as its in the right direction, progress is what gives us pleasure/joy ime. I have always been of the view that meaning in life comes from whatever you assign it to and that life is what you make it as it sounds you are, but I do question that a little bit these days, I am still undecided, and I try to be on most things to keep an open mind. I was curious, what would you say you assign meaning to in your life, and does it make life feel meaningful for you? I assigned meaning to having new experiences, knowledge and being a nice person mostly I think in the past but these days I think love is most important, its not that easy to always love everyone but the more I focus my life on that feeling the more good I feel comes

 

[JessFR]

Man you're fortunate to be trying to get off it now in your 20s. A lot of people wind up losing a significant chunk of their life to this shit.

I feel fortunate enough getting away from heroin at all at 29.

 

[Branggen]

Yea for sure, a ton of us basically never see another day of sobriety again I suppose, whether they OD or just die as addicts in old age. Really though I don't think the addiction is the main problem for most addicts because without whatever underlying issue causing them stress/sadness I think stopping wouldn't be as much of an issue. Opiates being painkillers I think majority of us got addicted because of some type of pain, even if you say you just love the feeling I feel that is sort of code for it is covering up a pain I don't fully comprehend/know about. From what ive read emotional pain and physical are essentially the same in many ways. A lot of us know how psychological withdrawal is too so that kind of points to it covering up pain imo

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Time release definitely helps ease withdrawals.

You're almost at the end now, 50mg is a low dose of oral morphine considering it has on average 20% BA. That's some mad progress you made.

Tapering down to 10mg then jumping off from there is certainly the best option if you're able to.

 

[JessFR]

Yea for sure, a ton of us basically never see another day of sobriety again I suppose, whether they OD or just die as addicts in old age. Really though I don't think the addiction is the main problem for most addicts because without whatever underlying issue causing them stress/sadness I think stopping wouldn't be as much of an issue. Opiates being painkillers I think majority of us got addicted because of some type of pain, even if you say you just love the feeling I feel that is sort of code for it is covering up a pain I don't fully comprehend/know about. From what ive read emotional pain and physical are essentially the same in many ways. A lot of us know how psychological withdrawal is too so that kind of points to it covering up pain imo

Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to that.

It can't be a coincidence that so many people here, and sooo many people I've known in real life with significant opioid habits also happen to have either chronic physical pain, or substantial mental health issues. Or both.

Sure, some people are probably genetically predisposed or not disposed to enjoying opioids and finding them addictive, but it's the psychological and/or physical pain that I think leads them to them to start with, and causes them to be less likely to be able to leave, and keep away from them after they do.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

without reading this whole thread, i’d go down further. but my opinion is always to taper super low before jumping, if you can. for both benzos and opiates.

 

[HoldBack]

@HoldBack
Good morning, Im in my early 20s so I still have a lot to look forward too, Id say my age is a big thing that helped me make the decision, I don't know how much longer I could have gone on for like that and still had a chance to go back, after 5 or 6 years, I sort of felt like I was nearing the point of no return, at least without a lot more difficulties.

Glad to hear you have made good changes in your life in the past years that's what I think matters a step however small as long as its in the right direction, progress is what gives us pleasure/joy ime. I have always been of the view that meaning in life comes from whatever you assign it to and that life is what you make it as it sounds you are, but I do question that a little bit these days, I am still undecided, and I try to be on most things to keep an open mind. I was curious, what would you say you assign meaning to in your life, and does it make life feel meaningful for you? I assigned meaning to having new experiences, knowledge and being a nice person mostly I think in the past but these days I think love is most important, its not that easy to always love everyone but the more I focus my life on that feeling the more good I feel comes

I’m 28, have a good job (that I’m able to hold down thanks to methadone) and haven’t been strung out, stealing and scheming and what not for years. I am, however, still a daily user of fent, crack, and illicit kpin.

I don’t think there’s such a thing as a functional addict. It may take a month or a decade but aa people say it best you will end up jailed, institutionalized, or dead.

For me, your social interaction and quality of the relationships you have determines your happiness and is the sole source of meaning. And I may be wrong but I think the above is true for every human.

Even a belief in god is a relationship with an omnipresent being. And going to church is just building your relationship with a community.

I think the greatest barrier to actually getting off drugs for me is the lack of relationships. It’s not zero, but it’s pretty darn close.

Sorry to ramble and espouse my views but I’ve definitely thought of why I’m still an addict when I can’t identify any trauma or pain.

 

[Branggen]

@HoldBack Im with you on everything you said, regaining those relationships is probably the hardest part and if done is a massive help to getting clean, if not a sole reason. Really explains why people have quite good results with church/aa because it puts them right into a community.

Makes me think of that rat park experiment, where isolated rats would abuse drugs if given the opportunity, but rats in a social setting with lots of food and mates etc wouldn't. I personally still dont think taking drugs in itself is necessarily a problem, its the overuse, for me though I think I need to take a break from anything too euphoric for a good while.

Wish you the best of luck, those were my drugs of choice too, fent, crack after I stopped IVing coke and a benzo to sleep, usually xanax. The hardest part so far for me was probably going from taking street drugs to purely the prescribed opiates, it was like buying and using street drugs was half of who I was and I just had to let that half go