Opioids Moderately strong opiate buzz with methadone + tobacco?? How??

[Bomb319]

I've been taking methadone for a long time now - about 4 years. My dose is high - 370 mg daily, although I sometimes take closer to half that. Anyway, methadone does NOT produce significant euphoria on its own for me unless I take a lot and precede that with several days off. That's not the point though.

After I've taken my normal dose and it's had time to kick in, I get a distinct and sometimes surprisingly good opiate feeling when I inhale from my vape. It comes on quickly and passes just as quickly...about 5-10 seconds or so after drawing on it. I have enough experience with these drugs to know I'm not mistaking a normal nicotine buzz for an opiate one; it's absolutely there and what's more, it usually happens every time I inhale for at least the rest of the day, and sometimes well into the next! If I have little methadone left in my system after a break of several days, this does NOT happen at all. It's certainly not psychogenic either, because I often totally forget about it and am reminded once I inhale.

My question is, how does this possibly work? Does the nicotine potentiate the methadone over the very short term? Or does the dopamine normally released by nicotine have an additive but temporary effect with it? I'd really like to know what's going on here on the level of neurotransmitters. Second, does doing this cause a more rapid depletion of the methadone in the body, causing a quicker onset of withdrawal symptoms? It seems intuitive that getting "extra highs" constantly throughout the day might be using tiny amounts of methadone each time, resulting in this. On the other hand, maybe the methadone stays fixed attached to the mu receptors (causing some degree of dopamine release) while the nicotine releases still further amounts that go above a certain threshold, giving the opiate feeling without using up the drug. I really have no idea. If anyone has ANY insight about this at all, I would really appreciate it. Also your personal experiences would be very helpful to share...does this happen to others? Everyone? etc.

Thanks a lot, all!

 

[Patrickforsterter]

Tobacco enhancing opiates is well known I use tobacco, cannabis, promethazine and caffeine with my codeine all the time I find you should always wait for the opiate to start hitting it's peak and then slowly start smoking or vaping or you can actually overpower the opiate high.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Might be interesting to play around with your diet. See what happens with consuming a bit of fatty just before or after dosing. The donut shop is a pretty normal hangout place post morning dose for a lot of clinic folks.

With the nicotine, no idea. Smoking always was a hell of a lot more enjoyable after taking methadone though, very nice synergy if I don't consider how fucked it made my mouth/throat/lungs.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Smoking tobacco on opiates certainly has an extra. Now without having any experience with nicotin vapes Bomb is refering to. Didn't tobacco, the whole leaf product, and pure nicotin differ in effects. And is nicotin, pure form, actually doing something special on the Methadon?

Nicotin sublingual tablets and Cytisine, an alkaloid from Golden Rain (common plant) present in a stop smoking aid, never gave my Kratom, Cannabis and Amphetamin a kick. But I only took those during one of my cessation's of tobacco so in wd so to speak. The nicotin replacements I mean.
Betel Nut did somehow produce a sort of like tobacco effect.

 

[Opioidergic]

Bro I get the same exact thing as you but my methadone does provide slight euphoria most days I take it for a few hours after but I notice that the peak time for me is around the 2 hour mark when I hit on my vape I get an opiates rush that's short lived but I love it

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Smoking a cigarette while chasing the dragon was standard practice back in the day as it was well known to potentiate the heroin. I always presumed this was due to the additives in cigarettes that cause slight MAO inhibition. However, these additives are not present in vape juice afaik, so why your vape is providing this effect I haven't a clue.

Incidentally, I cannot achieve any satisfaction from vaping whatsoever - even after 24 hours without nicotine. Pull on a vape, nothing. A few tokes on a cigarette and I get that dopamine rush...

 

[Sertürner]

I am a chronic smoker and I tend to want a cigarette or my vape after literally anything I do. Once I start feeling any kind of change of emotions, I need a cigarette. if I realize I am happy, or suddenly feel, depressed, or more relaxed and maybe even euphoric, I want a smoke. I think there is a significant correlation between dopamine release from both dopamine agonists (amphetamines, cocaine, cathinones, ect.. ) and mu opioid receptor antagonists and nAChR's . It would be interesting to find this relationship.

 

[Sertürner]

sorry to double post. But maybe there is a downstream effect that affects both mu opioid and dopamine receptors?

 

[Coolwhip]

It's pretty common knowledge that tobacco has this effect with opiates, any opiate. I'm actually more in awe of the fact that one could go through an assumingly long opioid addiction then be on methadone maintenance long enough to get to 370mg daily doses, and are just now figuring this out. Did you not ever smoke cigarettes with your dope? If not you missed out.

 

[Lorne???]

Might be interesting to play around with your diet. See what happens with consuming a bit of fatty just before or after dosing. The donut shop is a pretty normal hangout place post morning dose for a lot of clinic folks.

With the nicotine, no idea. Smoking always was a hell of a lot more enjoyable after taking methadone though, very nice synergy if I don't consider how fucked it made my mouth/throat/lungs.

True true

 

[OpiumKing]

Same goes for BUPRENORPHINE.! I put a dip in after my Subutex, and it always gives me a nice buzzz.

 

[Skippwiggins]

Absolutely potentiates. Im on 140mg daily. It only lasts me 12 hours amd im yawning and startim to jonse, after 16 hours im im monderate withdrawal, 18 to 20 hours im hurting. If i smokw through out the day my methadone duration is definitely reduced so i try not to smoke more than 2 cigs a day. I hate the methadone program my clinic wont do splot doses and im afraid no dose will hold me for 24 hours unless i get intk the 250mgs and higher level and i dont wanna be on that much done. I really wanna switch back to subs, which gave me a small buzz throughout the day but i was never sick.

Tldr: Abusing RC fentanyl analogues put my tolerance in the stratosphere and methadone cannot hold me. Smoking makes this worse.

 

[Båtmannen]

Because nicotine stimulates the release of endogenous B-endorphines, and because tobacco contains MAOI's, boosting everything.

But nicotine itself should also work, as in enhances the analgesic effect of morphine..

 

[Opioidergic]

Smoking a cigarette while chasing the dragon was standard practice back in the day as it was well known to potentiate the heroin. I always presumed this was due to the additives in cigarettes that cause slight MAO inhibition. However, these additives are not present in vape juice afaik, so why your vape is providing this effect I haven't a clue.

Incidentally, I cannot achieve any satisfaction from vaping whatsoever - even after 24 hours without nicotine. Pull on a vape, nothing. A few tokes on a cigarette and I get that dopamine rush...

You have to get strong nicotine content most people vape like 6mg which is nothing I vape 12 and I find it gives me more satisfaction than smoking which is why o been able to stay off the cigs for almost a whole year now

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

You have to get strong nicotine content most people vape like 6mg which is nothing I vape 12 and I find it gives me more satisfaction than smoking which is why o been able to stay off the cigs for almost a whole year now

I was using 18mg/ml and still got fuck all.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Testing rat brain tissue, we found remarkable overlap between the effects of nicotine and opiates on dopamine signaling within the brain's reward centers," says Daniel McGehee, Associate Professor in Anesthesia & Critical Care at the University of Chicago Medical Center.

Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. "There is a specific part of the nucleus accumbens where opiates have been shown to affect behavior, and when we tested nicotine in that area, the effects on dopamine are almost identical," says McGehee.

This research is important to scientists because it demonstrates overlap in the way the two drugs work, complementing previous studies that showed overlapping effects on physiology of the ventral tegmenal area, another key part of the brain's reward circuitry.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080212171131.htm

Cigarette smoke (tobacco smoke in general) contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) like harmine in addition to nicotine. This explains why plain nicotine is not addictive and even dysphoric. It also explians why smoking 'feels good' and potentiates some monoaminergic drugs (MDMA, cocaine, etc) - an indirect increase in dopamine/serotonin levels due to the reduced activity of MAO.

588626-why-does-nicotine-seem-to-potentiate-kick-in-opiates