Harm Reduction Methamphetamine and the heart

[MindSeeker]

Hello!

For a few years I've been smoking meth, let me call it, occasionally. 5-10 times a year I get 1-3 grams and smoke it over 1-2 weeks than take a break. I remember about eating and sleeping as much as I can and I haven't noticed any long term issues yet. The only lasting "side effect" is weight loss, I often lose 10-20 lbs and later, unless I binge with food, I manage to keep at least some of weight off. In all these years I managed to go down 40 lbs.

I know most common death reason for stimulant users is heart issues but my research shows that when it happens it's either someone does crazy amounts or has a genetic predisposition. I haven't found any research showing lasting heart problems with moderate use however. If there was one, I would stop using it completely.

My question is - has anyone seen any scientific research on this - possible heart damage with moderate use on coke, meth or any other hard stimulant - on humans or any mammals?

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

Hello!

For a few years I've been smoking meth, let me call it, occasionally. 5-10 times a year I get 1-3 grams and smoke it over 1-2 weeks than take a break. I remember about eating and sleeping as much as I can and I haven't noticed any long term issues yet. The only lasting "side effect" is weight loss, I often lose 10-20 lbs and later, unless I binge with food, I manage to keep at least some of weight off. In all these years I managed to go down 40 lbs.

I know most common death reason for stimulant users is heart issues but my research shows that when it happens it's either someone does crazy amounts or has a genetic predisposition. I haven't found any research showing lasting heart problems with moderate use however. If there was one, I would stop using it completely.

My question is - has anyone seen any scientific research on this - possible heart damage with moderate use on coke, meth or any other hard stimulant - on humans or any mammals?

Meth and heart disease: A deadly crisis we don't fully fathom, report says

Methamphetamine has potentially fatal long-term effects, but researchers say the public's knowledge hasn't kept up with the problem's scope.

www.heart.org

Most important takeaway: "When people look at overdose deaths from drugs, opioid is a much bigger problem. But what people are overlooking is the fact that meth users, while they're not overdosing, they're dying of other things. They're dying of heart attacks, they're dying of heart failure," said Wayne Orr, senior author of the report."

I've never even seen Meth but I wrecked my life with coke. Stop now if you want to, you're worth it.

 

[justactNaTuRaL]

It constricts your blood flow and accelerates your heart rate. Your body naturally does these things temporarily in response to everyday stimuli.

However on meth, it's not temporary. It lasts 12-24 hours after last dose depending on how fast your body gets rid of it. I'm not a doctor but that sounds equivalent (in relation to your heart) to jogging that entire time. It definitely can't be good.

 

[MindSeeker]

Meth and heart disease: A deadly crisis we don't fully fathom, report says

Methamphetamine has potentially fatal long-term effects, but researchers say the public's knowledge hasn't kept up with the problem's scope.

www.heart.org

Most important takeaway: "When people look at overdose deaths from drugs, opioid is a much bigger problem. But what people are overlooking is the fact that meth users, while they're not overdosing, they're dying of other things. They're dying of heart attacks, they're dying of heart failure," said Wayne Orr, senior author of the report."

I've never even seen Meth but I wrecked my life with coke. Stop now if you want to, you're worth it.

Thank you for this link! Even though American Heart Associationis usually more after money than science (and they still recommend cereal for breakfast) the example of an ex-meth user who died of " a massive heart attack due to just getting excited at their son's football game" is definitely sobering!

 

[Phobos]

Thank you for this link! Even though American Heart Associationis usually more after money than science (and they still recommend cereal for breakfast) the example of an ex-meth user who died of " a massive heart attack due to just getting excited at their son's football game" is definitely sobering!

To expand on what @ColoradoOpiateGirl said, people might die from a heart attack or a stroke or other cardiovascular issue caused by meth, while they are not on meth, maybe they have been sober for a decade or more, so they won't be in any statistic related to meth.

Chronically elevated HR and BP are known to cause serious issues in the long term.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Anecdotal but I've been using meth off and on since I was about 14-15 (I'm 35 now) and I had my heart looked at (EKg & X-ray) in 2022 & it was normal.
Of course i used on & off, not everyday for years at all time, otherwise it might be a different story.


Honestly, with all the drugs I've done, i'm shocked that I keep getting a clean bill of health (at least physically anyway)


Meth's way more destructive than opioids IMO though.
Opioids aren't neurotoxic, nor are they as harsh on the body. Overdose concerns are overblown.

I used heroin & opioids for 15 years & never even once overdosed. But then again I was the type of person to research everything I put in my body & I didn't mix my opioids with 50 other CNS depressants, which is where overdoses become a reality. I think they get unfairly labeled as "the most dangerous drugs" though.

A long term alcohol user (legal & totally acceptable) is gonna have a lot more problems than a long term opioid user when it comes to brain & organ damage.
Yet one gets stigmatized & the other doesn't.

 

[MindSeeker]

Anecdotal but I've been using meth off and on since I was about 14-15 (I'm 35 now) and I had my heart looked at (EKg & X-ray) in 2022 & it was normal.

I'm happy for you!

There's a lot of lies told by governments to demonize everything they consider illicit, yet everyday alcohol use, even moderate, would kill most people in a few years yet most people think serious health problems only happen to those who drink in gallons.

Meth's way more destructive than opioids IMO though. Opioids aren't neurotoxic, nor are they as harsh on the body. Overdose concerns are overblow

I agree, opioids have close to nonexistent bad influence on the body, it's just most people can't limit the use and tolerance goes up so bad that they end up using fentanyl sooner or later, where overdosing is a matter of a few milligrams.

The question about neurotoxicity of meth is still open though. Desoxyn is pure meth and can still be prescribed by doctors in the USA, it's between 5 to 25 mg daily, and no neurotoxicity has been observed with this dosage. The dose makes the poison. Animals treated with mega doses of crystal did have neuronal damage but no one checked if after some it wasn't repaired.

The only decent study I heard of was not with meth but MDMA, a daily MDMA heavy user did show some damage to neurons but when examined 2 years after she stopped using, neurons got back to normal. The problem is they didn't test all MDMA she had been taking and there was a huge posibility it was laced with meth or something else.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm happy for you!

There's a lot of lies told by governments to demonize everything they consider illicit, yet everyday alcohol use, even moderate, would kill most people in a few years yet most people think serious health problems only happen to those who drink in gallons.



I agree, opioids have close to nonexistent bad influence on the body, it's just most people can't limit the use and tolerance goes up so bad that they end up using fentanyl sooner or later, where overdosing is a matter of a few milligrams.

The question about neurotoxicity of meth is still open though. Desoxyn is pure meth and can still be prescribed by doctors in the USA, it's between 5 to 25 mg daily, and no neurotoxicity has been observed with this dosage. The dose makes the poison. Animals treated with mega doses of crystal did have neuronal damage but no one checked if after some it wasn't repaired.

The only decent study I heard of was not with meth but MDMA, a daily MDMA heavy user did show some damage to neurons but when examined 2 years after she stopped using, neurons got back to normal. The problem is they didn't test all MDMA she had been taking and there was a huge posibility it was laced with meth or something else.

I had a cat scan done recently in the past 2 years & they said my brain was normal.
I was in shock & even asked them how somebody with my history of drug use (everything from heroin, meth, to inhalants) doesn't have any "brain damage" or anything visible on a cat scan? They said they didn't know & that maybe "I had good genes". Yeah okay. lol

The only physical issues I faced from opioids was constipation, which I was always able to remedy & keep on track with.
The maintenance opioids are even worse for constipation, since they never come off the damn receptors.

Other than that, some mild sedation & nodding. Maybe some itching. Iol I'll take those side effects over alcohol's side effects anyway.
Opioids save me from being an alcoholic.

I see propaganda about opioids being pumped everywhere, They're being made out to be some "the most dangerous" drugs ever & it's just ridiculous.
Anything can be fucking dangerous if it's extremely potent & uneducated people are using it.

It really boils my blood seeing so much misinformation & lies pushed about opioids when they're actually amazing drugs that don't completely impair your ability to function or be yourself like most other drugs.

 

[Baphomet64]

My step dad has heart failure, my mom has heart disease neither of them have used, I found a research paper on google for you, type in "Methamphetamine use and cardiovascular disease research paper" and pick the .gov sites (.gov sites for research papers are legitimate scientific research papers produced by the government, you can find research papers on anything this way)

To quote the research paper: "Methamphetamines may promote cardiovascular disease through catecholamine toxicity or through direct effects on cardiac and vascular tissue."

"Remodeling of cardiac tissue following methamphetamine exposure promotes dilated cardiomyopathy and may enhance the susceptibility to cardiac arrhythmias." apparently meth effects your heart in a way that it reshapes the cardiac tissue? Sounds horrible.

From what I can tell Methamphetamine use leads to hypertension, which at an old age leads to a stroke.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

.gov sites for research papers are legitimate scientific research papers produced by the government, you can find research papers on anything this way

Just a small clarification. While there are government research agencies, these .gov websites are not only hosting papers produced there but rather they're repositories for any peer reviewed research. There are numerous nongovernmental institutions that do scientific research