Methadone

[Bloodreina13]

How bad are the withdrawals when you lower your methadone dose to 3 to 1 mg?
I started on 170mg ... Started a taper in September of 5mg to 10mg a week. I'm now down to 20mg.
Also for those of you who gained weight on methadone.. How long did it take you to lose it ... After you stopped methadone?

 

[neversickanymore]

Congratulations on the amazing taper!!! Keep up the amazing work.

Have you come up with a plan for the end game detox. From my own and having read many other peoples experiences with methadone tapers and what happened at their jumping point it has varied pretty significantly. Some people get hit pretty hard, almost everyone feels rough and a few report very little physical withdrawals.

There are quite a few claims posted for the length of methadones half life. This is due to its half life being quite subjective and varying from 8 to over 55 hours. I think around 35 hours for the half life works out well for many people. So a drug is out of your system in 5 half lives and then it takes a few days for the system to begin to regulate itself to perform properly with the drug removed. Using this it puts you seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in around 12 days after your last dose. This may be a little long an estimate, but its always better to get through a little earlier than to have to go longer.

You can do this!!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Bloodreina13

Pretty dope self-improvement work in regards to your massive taper. That deserves some Kudos. I'm not even talking about those mini-Kudos bars my mom used to stick in my lunch. I'm talking about the real deal my friend.

Most anybody is going to tell you that the hardest part for you is likely over. You've come a very long way and I'm sure you don't need us to explain to you how difficult it is to taper from such a high dose of Methadone to where you are now. You already know all about that.

I've tapered and withdrawn from Methadone before, so I can give you a little bit from my experience:

Going to absolute zero is a hard thing. Going from anything 10mg,. 5mg,. 1mg or what have you to absolute zero is a little bit of a bitch. For me, it was the cherry on top of the sundae that gave me just one last slap in the face before it was all over. The feeling of every last Opioid leaving your body is a little bit difficult, but it's all totally manageable by someone like yourself who has already tapered successfully from such a high dose.

To answer your question directly, I'm sure the drop to 1mg Methadone is nothing you can't handle. The drop to zero won't be anything you can't handle either, but I do recommend preparing for some difficulty for the 7-10 days of first being totally free of the Methadone, as they can be a little bit difficult.

I always recommend going as slow as possible with this sort of thing. I rarely can see an advantage in taking on too much pain at once. It often just leads to failure. If you're at 20mg right now I would do something like:

Reduce dose by 2mg Methadone weekly. This will go on for 10 weeks until you're at 0mg Methadone.

There's no reason why you couldn't do it half as quick. As I said, I don't really see an advantage in going faster if you don't have to.

As far as the weight issue is concerned, I never experienced this with Methadone. I have known a lot of people who have dealt with this. Many of them find their appetite is greatly diminished when they stop taking Opioids. I imagine the first few weeks of zero Opioids will be a period of limited appetite. A lot of folks will lose a lot of the acquired weight throughout the withdrawal process, as the withdrawal process from Methadone is typically quite long.

Whatever you don't lose in the withdrawal, you can continue losing. Your eating habits throughout your first month without Methadone can be your foundation for new eating habits.

 

[neversickanymore]

Also as you are finishing up your taper I would come up with or shore up your recovery plan. Now that you will be free of the methadone you will also no longer have its benefits.

First thing is to solidify that you are not going to OD if you have a relapse. A couple of weeks after you take your last dose you will have the tolerance of a completely opiate naive system.

One dose has the real possibility of killing you, especially when it comes to the fent. That includes less dangerous ROA’s. Consider picking up an OD kit as there is no reason not to as it does not indicate that your secretly planning to relapse, but rather making sure you have every possible outcome covered. Relapse is one of, if not the most dangerous time for us to OD.

Plans either strengthen or build would be one for any PAWS you may experience and another to continue to successfully treat any psychological addiction. It’s important to also realize that you may get a spike in addiction symptoms and severity once the methadone is no longer on board.

It can be easier for people to work with their recovery plans before the end detox and it can be a really good thing to have strong plans already ready and working for you if you get hit with any PAWS or addiction.

 

[Bloodreina13]

Hey @Bloodreina13

Pretty dope self-improvement work in regards to your massive taper. That deserves some Kudos. I'm not even talking about those mini-Kudos bars my mom used to stick in my lunch. I'm talking about the real deal my friend.

Most anybody is going to tell you that the hardest part for you is likely over. You've come a very long way and I'm sure you don't need us to explain to you how difficult it is to taper from such a high dose of Methadone to where you are now. You already know all about that.

I've tapered and withdrawn from Methadone before, so I can give you a little bit from my experience:

Going to absolute zero is a hard thing. Going from anything 10mg,. 5mg,. 1mg or what have you to absolute zero is a little bit of a bitch. For me, it was the cherry on top of the sundae that gave me just one last slap in the face before it was all over. The feeling of every last Opioid leaving your body is a little bit difficult, but it's all totally manageable by someone like yourself who has already tapered successfully from such a high dose.

To answer your question directly, I'm sure the drop to 1mg Methadone is nothing you can't handle. The drop to zero won't be anything you can't handle either, but I do recommend preparing for some difficulty for the 7-10 days of first being totally free of the Methadone, as they can be a little bit difficult.

I always recommend going as slow as possible with this sort of thing. I rarely can see an advantage in taking on too much pain at once. It often just leads to failure. If you're at 20mg right now I would do something like:

Reduce dose by 2mg Methadone weekly. This will go on for 10 weeks until you're at 0mg Methadone.

There's no reason why you couldn't do it half as quick. As I said, I don't really see an advantage in going faster if you don't have to.

As far as the weight issue is concerned, I never experienced this with Methadone. I have known a lot of people who have dealt with this. Many of them find their appetite is greatly diminished when they stop taking Opioids. I imagine the first few weeks of zero Opioids will be a period of limited appetite. A lot of folks will lose a lot of the acquired weight throughout the withdrawal process, as the withdrawal process from Methadone is typically quite long.

Whatever you don't lose in the withdrawal, you can continue losing. Your eating habits throughout your first month without Methadone can be your foundation for new eating habits.

This taper has been a living hell.. I can honestly say I've been in stage 1 withdrawal for 6months.. This shit is killing me tho and the thought of being on it another year or 2 I just can't.. My plan next week was to drop by 2mg .. Cause this week's drop HURT.. I can't do anything on methadone.. All I did was sleep really.

Congratulations on the amazing taper!!! Keep up the amazing work.

Have you come up with a plan for the end game detox. From my own and having read many other peoples experiences with methadone tapers and what happened at their jumping point it has varied pretty significantly. Some people get hit pretty hard, almost everyone feels rough and a few report very little physical withdrawals.

There are quite a few claims posted for the length of methadones half life. This is due to its half life being quite subjective and varying from 8 to over 55 hours. I think around 35 hours for the half life works out well for many people. So a drug is out of your system in 5 half lives and then it takes a few days for the system to begin to regulate itself to perform properly with the drug removed. Using this it puts you seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in around 12 days after your last dose. This may be a little long an estimate, but its always better to get through a little earlier than to have to go longer.

You can do this!!

Thanks.. It's been hell.. I would normally just rip off the bandaid and go for it but after 6months of withdrawal I'm already at the end of my rope. Obviously I'm going to do it but I'd like it to be as painless as possible

 

[Bloodreina13]

Also as you are finishing up your taper I would come up with or shore up your recovery plan. Now that you will be free of the methadone you will also no longer have its benefits.

First thing is to solidify that you are not going to OD if you have a relapse. A couple of weeks after you take your last dose you will have the tolerance of a completely opiate naive system.

One dose has the real possibility of killing you, especially when it comes to the fent. That includes less dangerous ROA’s. Consider picking up an OD kit as there is no reason not to as it does not indicate that your secretly planning to relapse, but rather making sure you have every possible outcome covered. Relapse is one of, if not the most dangerous time for us to OD.

Plans either strengthen or build would be one for any PAWS you may experience and another to continue to successfully treat any psychological addiction. It’s important to also realize that you may get a spike in addiction symptoms and severity once the methadone is no longer on board.

It can be easier for people to work with their recovery plans before the end detox and it can be a really good thing to have strong plans already ready and working for you if you get hit with any PAWS or addiction.

I never did herion.. I was on pills for chronic pain. The pain clinic shut down. I went to the streets for oxy... Those went all counterfeit...I ended up on methadone. So for me fentanyl isn't an option in my mind. Now if I could have my pain treated with oxy that would be great but we'll apparently they want everyone on fentanyl, sub's and methadone. I can't begin to explain how much methadone has destroyed my life.

 

[neversickanymore]

I never did herion.. I was on pills for chronic pain. The pain clinic shut down. I went to the streets for oxy... Those went all counterfeit...I ended up on methadone. So for me fentanyl isn't an option in my mind. Now if I could have my pain treated with oxy that would be great but we'll apparently they want everyone on fentanyl, sub's and methadone. I can't begin to explain how much methadone has destroyed my life.

Sometimes it’s amazing how quickly not an option can become standard practice. As far as the OD kit goes even if you feel you will never need it it’s better to have and never need it then not having it if someone needs it. Depending on where your at it’s common to be able to obtain one easily and for free.

Have you had your vitamin D levels checked and testosterone levels checked if you are male? If not I would get that done asap as chronic methadone consumption commonly effects both of these. I’ll post a few links around this later today.

Sorry to hear of the negative effects you have experienced. Hopefully no damage that’s permanent and that your able to repair your life!

 

[Bloodreina13]

Sometimes it’s amazing how quickly not an option can become standard practice. As far as the OD kit goes even if you feel you will never need it it’s better to have and never need it then not having it if someone needs it. Depending on where your at it’s common to be able to obtain one easily and for free.

Have you had your vitamin D levels checked and testosterone levels checked if you are male? If not I would get that done asap as chronic methadone consumption commonly effects both of these. I’ll post a few links around this later today.

Sorry to hear of the negative effects you have experienced. Hopefully no damage that’s permanent and that your able to repair your life!

I'm female. Definitely have opioid induced endocrinopathy. I do have narcan.. I carry with me. My labs have been horrible since I got on methadone. I started a multi vitamin which helps but only so much.

 

[neversickanymore]

This is interesting as well. So chronic use of opiates often cause vitamin D deficiency and vitamin D deficiency has been shown to increase desire to use opiates.

Vitamin D deficiency may increase risk for addiction to opioids and ultraviolet rays

Lab animals deficient in vitamin D crave and become dependent on opioids, which is curbed when normal levels of the vitamin are restored. Human health records indicate that people with low vitamin D are more likely to use and misuse opioids. Study results suggest a potential role for vitamin D...

www.sciencedaily.com

Keep Fighting all the way through, your doing amazing!!! Freedoms on the other side

 

[Keif' Richards]

This taper has been a living hell.. I can honestly say I've been in stage 1 withdrawal for 6months.. This shit is killing me tho and the thought of being on it another year or 2 I just can't.. My plan next week was to drop by 2mg .. Cause this week's drop HURT.. I can't do anything on methadone.. All I did was sleep really.

Thanks.. It's been hell.. I would normally just rip off the bandaid and go for it but after 6months of withdrawal I'm already at the end of my rope. Obviously I'm going to do it but I'd like it to be as painless as possible

I don't want to make assumptions, but I think you're experience is pretty similar to mine and that of many others'.

I don't know if Black/White thinking is a symptom of addiction. I believe I always struggled with seeing life in multiple shades other than Good or Bad. It's been a major work in progress as I've tried to get better. It's still a daily struggle, especially when trying to begin a healthy romantic relationship.

I say you mention not "wanting to be on this for another x number of years". That seems like a reasonable emotion, but it's not really the reality. You came up with an idea that moved rather quickly. I had concerns that this would be too quick. I still feel that way. Nobody is telling you to return to Methadone for another couple of years. It will be a longer experience and more structured, but it also sets you up with a greater probability of success.

I think about two armies fighting each other in ancient times, like he Romans and th Gauls. Some would say the Gaul's were braver and feircer than the Romans, as they didn't hesitate, they ran into battle on their own, waving their sword and screaming. I'm sure these guys thought their bravery would be rewarded by victory, but that wasn't the case.

The Romans, meanwhile wait in a square, disciplined, not moving. I would say that maintaining this discipline, just standing there and enabling the unit to function as a whole could be said to make them much more brave than the berserker warrior.

I think that's how a lot of people feel about withdrawal. It is really painful and they adapt the "band-aid" method of going as fast as possible thinking they can blink their eyes and it will all be over. This is how a lot of people fail, try again, fail, try again and fail again over they course of years or even a lifetime. The idea of designing a taper, seeking medical advice, having a recovery program etc. is complicated and drawn-out. In the moment, we can psyche ourselves up for anything, but that energy is usually not enough to actually carry you through a problem like this.

Like I tell everyone. Use every tool in the kit at the same time. Half-assing it will not help. Get a program, be honest with yourself and those you love, endure the pain and stick to the established program. 10 weeks is like a microsecond in the life of a person. By taking on too much you could be going in with great intentions but a statistically-low likelihood of either long or short term success.

 

[Bloodreina13]

If I stay on this garbage it's going to be the death of me. I've been on methadone for 5 years in that time my health has decided rapidly. 1 year to the day my kidney, liver, body weight, triglycerides everything off the charts. I can't function.. No joke all I've done for 5 years is sleep. I wake up at 5am and I'm able to move about 3 hours. .. The thought of sitting here on this garbage for even 1 year there's no way .. I've tried everything from lowering my dose , activity, gym, vitamins.. This medicine is like taking benadryl all the time. You have no sex drive.. Can't lose weight. .. Your a walking zombie... It's pure hell.. It's like a prison sentence

 

[blow_in2night]

So I feel compelled to reply to this post. Everything you've said as to the effects your getting from methadone mirrors the same for me. I was on methadone for a little under a year and knew it was time to get off this shit!
You can get as high up on a dose with very little objection from anywhere up in the clinic. Now sliding the other way takes a month of Sundays to drop 50mg. I went up to 100mg( constipated, no sex drive, the feeling of being numb) to 40mg where I said fuck it and stopped going. Now I thought I got away with murder like the 4th day and was literally taken out of life by the withdrawal from this shit by the 8th day. Ended up on the mountain to get away from town cause let's be honest while going through this acute phase of withdrawal a friend of the devil is most certainly a friend of mine.
On day 15 and damn the complete lack of energy is astounding! I could really see this as being the complete opposite of how you'd want to get off this gear.
Going very slow can't be stated enough. Alas none of it means shit if you haven't changed people, places and things which a long stretch of methadone enables you to do...if you want.

 

[DD1146]

Hey @Bloodreina13

Pretty dope self-improvement work in regards to your massive taper. That deserves some Kudos. I'm not even talking about those mini-Kudos bars my mom used to stick in my lunch. I'm talking about the real deal my friend.

Most anybody is going to tell you that the hardest part for you is likely over. You've come a very long way and I'm sure you don't need us to explain to you how difficult it is to taper from such a high dose of Methadone to where you are now. You already know all about that.

I've tapered and withdrawn from Methadone before, so I can give you a little bit from my experience:

Going to absolute zero is a hard thing. Going from anything 10mg,. 5mg,. 1mg or what have you to absolute zero is a little bit of a bitch. For me, it was the cherry on top of the sundae that gave me just one last slap in the face before it was all over. The feeling of every last Opioid leaving your body is a little bit difficult, but it's all totally manageable by someone like yourself who has already tapered successfully from such a high dose.

To answer your question directly, I'm sure the drop to 1mg Methadone is nothing you can't handle. The drop to zero won't be anything you can't handle either, but I do recommend preparing for some difficulty for the 7-10 days of first being totally free of the Methadone, as they can be a little bit difficult.i

I always recommend going as slow as possible with this sort of thing. I rarely can see an advantage in taking on too much pain at once. It often just leads to failure. If you're at 20mg right now I would do something like:

Reduce dose by 2mg Methadone weekly. This will go on for 10 weeks until you're at 0mg Methadone.

There's no reason why you couldn't do it half as quick. As I said, I don't really see an advantage in going faster if you don't have to.

As far as the weight issue is concerned, I never experienced this with Methadone. I have known a lot of people who have dealt with this. Many of them find their appetite is greatly diminished when they stop taking Opioids. I imagine the first few weeks of zero Opioids will be a period of limited appetite. A lot of folks will lose a lot of the acquired weight throughout the withdrawal process, as the withdrawal process from Methadone is typically quite long.

Whatever you don't lose in the withdrawal, you can continue losing. Your eating habits throughout your first month without Methadone can be your foundation for new eating habits.

I think reducing by 2mg weekly is too much personally. I know keif knows his stuff but having also had the misfortune of being a long term methadone addict and having had to reduce down until off.

I found, again this is just my experience, that a reduction of 2mg once your daily dose reaches 20mg a day is too hard on yourself, it's fine when you drop to 18mg from 20 but each subsequent 2mg drop from 18 onwards, all the way down to 0mg will hurt.

The best way I have found is to reduce the dose by 10% at each drop. Also holding at the new dose for 2 weeks rather than one week before undertaking your next dose drop. of course, this is again personally speaking, you may find you can cope with one week intervals between drops.

I found 2 weekly drops easier to deal with physically & mentally having more time in between drops. Find the dosage for each drop each time using a calculator.

For example to find 10% of your dose, you simply type into your calculator your current dose, so in this case 18mg you would just type 18 followed by the minus sign followed by 10 then press the percentage key. This will give you your new dose of 16.2mg

Now carry on doing that until you are off the stuff altogether. It is the least painful way I have used to get clean.

Good luck to you in your endeavour to become abstinent from methadone. You can do this.