mygreenbic
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2011
- Messages
- 413
First off there isn't much that will stop methadone withdrawal. You are going to go through it at one point or another. Even if you go the suboxone route, you still have to withdrawal for a while before you hop on the subs because of methadone's long half life. If you jump the gun and take it too soon, you will get to enjoy precipitated methadone withdrawal. I've been through it and I can say it was a complete nightmare. I've been through methadone withdrawal (coming off of the clinic) about 3 times in the past. I couldn't sleep for about 3 months and I honestly felt like I was dying each time. It was horrible. That being said...
I think I found out a huge reason of why methadone withdrawal and even straight use of methadone can cause so much misery. They don't tell you this at the clinics either. Methadone completely screws up your hormones. If you are a guy, your testosterone will plumit so far that it is below the reference range of the labs normal test levels. This is by the pituitary adrenal gonad axis. The methadone interrupts your pituitary gland from producing adequate amounts of hormones. This causes loss of libido, extreme anxiety and depression, anhedonia, insomnia, weight gain (adipose tissue which produces aromatase, an enzyme that converts the little bit of testosterone you might have into estrogen)) which in turn causes a steeper fall in test and an increase in estradiol *a form of estrogen you don't want*. This causes a vicious cycle called estrogen dominance. Its pretty much akin to menopause in women but its andropause in men.. So if you put this on top of opiate withdrawal its going to make it so much more difficult.
I recommend you get your levels checked and if your levels are hypogonadal which they most likely are, you can get your doctor to put you on testosterone replacement therapy. You aren't looking for enough test to body build, just enough to get you where you should be as a normal person. You may get your libido back, and it will help you to battle the methadone withdrawal . Its still going to be difficult but why would you want to have your hormones all out of whack (which is a system that is very confusing and difficult to manage) while you are trying to fix your life.
This is knowledge that I really wish I had before finding out the hard way. I was with a girl for 12 years and I never wanted to have sex. She ended up leaving me (we were engaged) without warning. It was such a terrible thing to go through because I couldn't figure out why my libido was not just low but completely absent. I ended up scowering the internet and coming across clinical studies on methadone induced hypogonadism... I could not believe my eyes because I have asked the nurses, counselors, and even the doctor at the methadone clinic if it possibly was messing with my hormones..... They all looked me in the face and said "Absolutely not! Its just an urban legend!" And I really trusted the nurses there so I didn't research it any further until it was too late and the love of my life left me.
My doctor started me on 40.5 mg of testosterone gel a day. It took close to 2 months to feel the difference and let me tell you, its night and day. While I would be happier with a higher dose, Im not going to complain because I have parts of my life back that I thought were gone forever. The feelings of emotionlessness are ameliorated... I sleep like a baby now, and I am hardening up. I was really doughy prior to this now my muscles are hard (although not very big)..... Im so upset that I had to live years of my life suffering in the state of estrogen dominance.
While everyone is different, and your hormone profile is going to be different than mine, I can almost guarantee that your hormones are out of balance and that you arent even close to a state of homeostasis. Ask your doctor if you can get your levels checked. If someone could have given me this knowledge years ago, Id be living a much better life right now. Low T levels is a serious health issue that can cause issues such as prostate cancer or even gynecomastia (man boobs).
If your doctor wont put you on testosterone replacement therapy you could try a TRT clinic.. If you cant afford that I can offer you some tips as to how you can increase your T levels naturally:
1) Take vitamin d3 supplements (at least 5000IU's daily)
2) Vitamin K2 is necessary while taking vitamin d. It also promotes healthy T levels.
3) Supplement with BORON. This elemental supplement is known to increase test levels over 35% as well as decreasing estradiol receptors.
4) Zinc. If you can afford it get Zinc Picolinate. If not then you can get zinc glucanate pretty much anywhere (even Dollar General). Zinc is another amazing supplement that raises testosterone levels. It inhibits the aromatase enzyme I mentioned earlier.... Remember aromatase is responsible for converting the little bit of T you might have into estrogen. causing a terrible cycle leading to hypogonadism and estrogen dominance. Zinc is a pretty good aromatase inhibitor. There is also other pathways of how zinc increases test but they are complicated and not necessary for this post.
5) copper.. Copper is necessary because Zinc levels are inversely proportional to copper levels. This means if you supplement with Zinc then your Copper levels will decrease. You want your body in a state of homestasis, not mineral or vitamin deficiency..
6) Nicotine patches, toothpicks, lozenges, or gum. Im not recommending smoking nor vaping. But nicotine helps in a couple ways. First it is a powerful aromatase inhibitor. While you are getting your Test levels up with the prior suggestions, you don't want the enemy- aromatase -converting your newly produced testosterone into estrogen... Nicotine can also work as a nootropic that will help you to get your dopamine firing again which definitely helps when you are lacking in Test... You'll see what I mean when it happens..
7) d-ASPAARTIC acid.. This has been known to give incredible test gains but only in people with incredibly low testosterone levels which is most likely the category that you fall under. Its very easy to find online with just a simple search. I don't want to lose this post by giving you sources or I would. Put it this way, its very easy to find, you wont have to look far when it comes to online purchasing of pretty much anything
8) Holy Basil - There are animal studies showing that holy basil increases testosterone to incredible levels.. In fact the levels it produces are so high that they arent even within the range that the tests provide. HOWEVER, there is a problem with this.. If you are planning on impregnating someone, then you may want to skip the holy basil. There are some studies online that show there may be a trade off with the gain in testosterone and that is your leydig cells stop the spermmogenesis process which may leave you sterile. There are even some anecdotes about ancient ancestors using holy basil for contraception. You may want to do your own research on Holy Basil to come to your own conclusions. I don't want to be responsible for your sterility if it were to occur.
9) Giinger.. Studies show that even though the mechanism is unclear, ginger has been proven time and time again to raise testosterone levels.
10) a few bonus supplements to get your levels up and to protect your testicles from oxidative damage.. Ashwagandha is amazing for test levels. It also lowers cortisol, the stress hormone, which is something you don't want flowing through your body whether you are on a steady dose of methadone maintenance or especially if you are tapering off or withdrawing. Cortisol can wreak havoc in your body and brain. Something that your body is loaded with while going through opiate withdrawal. Ashwagandha also prevents adrenal fatigue by acting as a modulator of the adrenal glands. Luteolin, apigenin, narigenin, cannabidiol, delta 8 thc, glycine, Clonazepam (this is if you are already on a different benzodiazepine or tranquilizer and you are coming off of methadone... While Benzos are a hard recommendation, you are going to need them during methadone withdrawal and clonazepam is by far the best choice for this... It will help in the case of glutamate storms, keep you from having seizures, and also possibly help you to sleep-- lack of sleep causes a rise in cortisol, a drop in testosterone, and a whole lot of oxidative stress, you need sleep and withdrawing from methadone without a sleep aid is next to impossible to get sleep. The less sleep you get, the harder it is to get sleep at all. Even if you are not withdrawing from methadone, low T levels cause insomnia, and insomnia causes low T levels... So forget what you hear from people that have practically zero training in addiction that tell you that you will die if you take a benzo on methadone. While this may be true if you take large doses of strongly hypnotic benzos while being methadone naive. Clonazepam is perfect for it has a nice half life, it causes sedation but in safe levels. Don't mess with hypnotic powerhouses such as clonazolam, alprazolam, lorazepam, or even temazepam.) vitamin B complex (especially b1, b6, b12 but you still need all of them). For example vitamin b6 helps to clear the body of homocysteine while assisting the brain in producing more gaba. You probably already know that GABA is the brain's primary Inhibitory mechanism. What this means is that when the nervous system becomes overwhelmed with noise, glutamate, etc GABA is the inhibitory pathway that quiets down all of this anxiety, seizure provoking activity. Benzodiazepines work by attaching to their own receptor sites on GABA. What the BZ receptors are for is activating the GABA neurons and increasing their inhibitory powers. Valerian is another supplement that helps to produce GABA receptors. It also can help you relax or possibly even sleep. It works much like a benzodiazepine but in a not so powerful way. N Acetyl Cysteine may not help with your testosterone levels, but it will help you to produce more glutathione (debatable the bodies most powerful anti oxidant. This is key for proper health while living on or coming off of methadone. Kava (only sparingly and if you do not have liver problems for kava is known to be hepatoxic).. Pine Needle Pollen (an androgen powerhouse! look it up as this post is way too long as it is).. Lemon balm, magnolia extract, a glass of red wine a night (if you are predisposed to alcoholism skip the red wine and go right for the following two supplements:} Resveratrol and Quercetin, hesperidin for circulation, lots of water, black coffee is a testosterone producer- if the caffeine provokes anxiety in you then try green tea which contains many beneficial phytonutrients especially ltheanine...., Taurine prevents neuroinflammation, Pepto Bis. for severe withdrawal diarrhea.. Loperamide also for diarrhea but beware, if you are not yet making bowel movements, the Pepto and Loperamide will almost surely constipate you. Loperamide is actually a chemical relative of fentanyl that does not cross the blood brain barrier, however. Anecdotal reports say that loperamide ameliorates some of the peripheral opioid withdrawal symptoms such as joint pain, stomach problems, gooseflesh, etc. Cannabis is so key to help withdrawal from Methadone. The body's cannabinoid receptors main function is to correct imbalances in your body which present both in maintenance and withdrawal. Get whatever kind of cannabis you can come across but if you have a medical marijuana card you should stack up on RSO (a full spectrum, high THC edible form of Cannabis called Rick Simpson Oil created by yes Rick Simpson in a last ditch effort to cure his skin cancer. Believe it or not it worked! This stuff is incredibly potent and you can simply squeeze a rice sized piece of the oil to start into a capsule and swallow it down. Youll get incredibly effects from this seemingly tiny amount. It may actually be the only thing that can efficiently get you to sleep. However your tolerance will sky rocket almost immediately and youll need to double your dose every day. There is instructions online that explain how to make your own RSO from fresh cannabis. Edible forms of cannabis mainly RSO will help your body return to homeostasis quicker than probably anything else....) Try to get as many THC vape cartridges as you can afford because most likely you'll be too sick to want to get up and break up some flower and smoke it. Vapes will allow you to grab your pen, take a coupe hits, and set if back down for later. Some people, such as yours truly, prefer flower to vapor. I guess Im old school but flower contains all of the terpenes which add to the healing effects of cannabis... I recommend you chose an Indica as the help you relax. Sativa is more psychedelic. Most people chose to stay away from psychedelia while withdrawling. One example of a great Indica to chose while in this condition is Afghany. That stuff is one of the original Indicas and is incredibly mellow and comforting. More so than most any other strains I've tried. If you don't have access to medical marijuana and don't want to risk trouble with the law by purchasing it off the street, you have a few options as of Feb 2022. Because President Trump legalized hemp containing .3% thc or less, the door was opened for all kinds of goodies. This move legalized CBD which allowed chemists to manipulate certain molecules that are naturally in the Hemp into beautiful molecules such as Delta 8 THC, Delta 10 THC, THC-O Acetate, THCV, THC-P (30 times stronger than d9 thc (the main psychoactive component of cannabis)), CBN, and many more. You can purchase these molecules legally at your local head shop..... They come in flower form, tinctures (the strongest way to go), gummies (easiest way to control your dose), vape cartridges, disposable vapor pens, and more. Out of the lot d8 thc is IMO the most relaxing easy going of the lot. This will help you get a meal down which is incrediblly important. May even help you sleep. . If you are too tolerant then try THC-O first then finally for those with brass balls give the THC-P tinctures a try. Warning this stuff is very strong. Don't let its legality fool you! Its actually stronger than medical marijuana (in most cases).
OK that's all for now. Later after my fingers heal from typing this all up, Ill attach a post on how I used DXM to get over the post acute withdrawal period. It really did work!
I've been a member of BLUELIGHT forever now, and I still don't know how to start a new topic or thread. I think this post would have done better as a new thread entitled "Methadone, Testosterone, and Withdrawal Amelioration". If anyone knows how I can do that and move this post to start a new thread will you please help me to do that? I put a lot of work into this post. I did it for the bluelight community, as a way of paying back for all of the help I've obtained from BL over the years.
Thanks for your time and good luck!
@sp0r412 aka mygreenbic
Bonus:
1) pregabalin is amazing during withdrawal
2) essential oils such as linalool and patchouli
[IMG alt="mygreenbic"]https://bluelight.org/xf/data/avatars/m/218/218730.jpg?1643765428[/IMG]
I think I found out a huge reason of why methadone withdrawal and even straight use of methadone can cause so much misery. They don't tell you this at the clinics either. Methadone completely screws up your hormones. If you are a guy, your testosterone will plumit so far that it is below the reference range of the labs normal test levels. This is by the pituitary adrenal gonad axis. The methadone interrupts your pituitary gland from producing adequate amounts of hormones. This causes loss of libido, extreme anxiety and depression, anhedonia, insomnia, weight gain (adipose tissue which produces aromatase, an enzyme that converts the little bit of testosterone you might have into estrogen)) which in turn causes a steeper fall in test and an increase in estradiol *a form of estrogen you don't want*. This causes a vicious cycle called estrogen dominance. Its pretty much akin to menopause in women but its andropause in men.. So if you put this on top of opiate withdrawal its going to make it so much more difficult.
I recommend you get your levels checked and if your levels are hypogonadal which they most likely are, you can get your doctor to put you on testosterone replacement therapy. You aren't looking for enough test to body build, just enough to get you where you should be as a normal person. You may get your libido back, and it will help you to battle the methadone withdrawal . Its still going to be difficult but why would you want to have your hormones all out of whack (which is a system that is very confusing and difficult to manage) while you are trying to fix your life.
This is knowledge that I really wish I had before finding out the hard way. I was with a girl for 12 years and I never wanted to have sex. She ended up leaving me (we were engaged) without warning. It was such a terrible thing to go through because I couldn't figure out why my libido was not just low but completely absent. I ended up scowering the internet and coming across clinical studies on methadone induced hypogonadism... I could not believe my eyes because I have asked the nurses, counselors, and even the doctor at the methadone clinic if it possibly was messing with my hormones..... They all looked me in the face and said "Absolutely not! Its just an urban legend!" And I really trusted the nurses there so I didn't research it any further until it was too late and the love of my life left me.
My doctor started me on 40.5 mg of testosterone gel a day. It took close to 2 months to feel the difference and let me tell you, its night and day. While I would be happier with a higher dose, Im not going to complain because I have parts of my life back that I thought were gone forever. The feelings of emotionlessness are ameliorated... I sleep like a baby now, and I am hardening up. I was really doughy prior to this now my muscles are hard (although not very big)..... Im so upset that I had to live years of my life suffering in the state of estrogen dominance.
While everyone is different, and your hormone profile is going to be different than mine, I can almost guarantee that your hormones are out of balance and that you arent even close to a state of homeostasis. Ask your doctor if you can get your levels checked. If someone could have given me this knowledge years ago, Id be living a much better life right now. Low T levels is a serious health issue that can cause issues such as prostate cancer or even gynecomastia (man boobs).
If your doctor wont put you on testosterone replacement therapy you could try a TRT clinic.. If you cant afford that I can offer you some tips as to how you can increase your T levels naturally:
1) Take vitamin d3 supplements (at least 5000IU's daily)
2) Vitamin K2 is necessary while taking vitamin d. It also promotes healthy T levels.
3) Supplement with BORON. This elemental supplement is known to increase test levels over 35% as well as decreasing estradiol receptors.
4) Zinc. If you can afford it get Zinc Picolinate. If not then you can get zinc glucanate pretty much anywhere (even Dollar General). Zinc is another amazing supplement that raises testosterone levels. It inhibits the aromatase enzyme I mentioned earlier.... Remember aromatase is responsible for converting the little bit of T you might have into estrogen. causing a terrible cycle leading to hypogonadism and estrogen dominance. Zinc is a pretty good aromatase inhibitor. There is also other pathways of how zinc increases test but they are complicated and not necessary for this post.
5) copper.. Copper is necessary because Zinc levels are inversely proportional to copper levels. This means if you supplement with Zinc then your Copper levels will decrease. You want your body in a state of homestasis, not mineral or vitamin deficiency..
6) Nicotine patches, toothpicks, lozenges, or gum. Im not recommending smoking nor vaping. But nicotine helps in a couple ways. First it is a powerful aromatase inhibitor. While you are getting your Test levels up with the prior suggestions, you don't want the enemy- aromatase -converting your newly produced testosterone into estrogen... Nicotine can also work as a nootropic that will help you to get your dopamine firing again which definitely helps when you are lacking in Test... You'll see what I mean when it happens..
7) d-ASPAARTIC acid.. This has been known to give incredible test gains but only in people with incredibly low testosterone levels which is most likely the category that you fall under. Its very easy to find online with just a simple search. I don't want to lose this post by giving you sources or I would. Put it this way, its very easy to find, you wont have to look far when it comes to online purchasing of pretty much anything
8) Holy Basil - There are animal studies showing that holy basil increases testosterone to incredible levels.. In fact the levels it produces are so high that they arent even within the range that the tests provide. HOWEVER, there is a problem with this.. If you are planning on impregnating someone, then you may want to skip the holy basil. There are some studies online that show there may be a trade off with the gain in testosterone and that is your leydig cells stop the spermmogenesis process which may leave you sterile. There are even some anecdotes about ancient ancestors using holy basil for contraception. You may want to do your own research on Holy Basil to come to your own conclusions. I don't want to be responsible for your sterility if it were to occur.
9) Giinger.. Studies show that even though the mechanism is unclear, ginger has been proven time and time again to raise testosterone levels.
10) a few bonus supplements to get your levels up and to protect your testicles from oxidative damage.. Ashwagandha is amazing for test levels. It also lowers cortisol, the stress hormone, which is something you don't want flowing through your body whether you are on a steady dose of methadone maintenance or especially if you are tapering off or withdrawing. Cortisol can wreak havoc in your body and brain. Something that your body is loaded with while going through opiate withdrawal. Ashwagandha also prevents adrenal fatigue by acting as a modulator of the adrenal glands. Luteolin, apigenin, narigenin, cannabidiol, delta 8 thc, glycine, Clonazepam (this is if you are already on a different benzodiazepine or tranquilizer and you are coming off of methadone... While Benzos are a hard recommendation, you are going to need them during methadone withdrawal and clonazepam is by far the best choice for this... It will help in the case of glutamate storms, keep you from having seizures, and also possibly help you to sleep-- lack of sleep causes a rise in cortisol, a drop in testosterone, and a whole lot of oxidative stress, you need sleep and withdrawing from methadone without a sleep aid is next to impossible to get sleep. The less sleep you get, the harder it is to get sleep at all. Even if you are not withdrawing from methadone, low T levels cause insomnia, and insomnia causes low T levels... So forget what you hear from people that have practically zero training in addiction that tell you that you will die if you take a benzo on methadone. While this may be true if you take large doses of strongly hypnotic benzos while being methadone naive. Clonazepam is perfect for it has a nice half life, it causes sedation but in safe levels. Don't mess with hypnotic powerhouses such as clonazolam, alprazolam, lorazepam, or even temazepam.) vitamin B complex (especially b1, b6, b12 but you still need all of them). For example vitamin b6 helps to clear the body of homocysteine while assisting the brain in producing more gaba. You probably already know that GABA is the brain's primary Inhibitory mechanism. What this means is that when the nervous system becomes overwhelmed with noise, glutamate, etc GABA is the inhibitory pathway that quiets down all of this anxiety, seizure provoking activity. Benzodiazepines work by attaching to their own receptor sites on GABA. What the BZ receptors are for is activating the GABA neurons and increasing their inhibitory powers. Valerian is another supplement that helps to produce GABA receptors. It also can help you relax or possibly even sleep. It works much like a benzodiazepine but in a not so powerful way. N Acetyl Cysteine may not help with your testosterone levels, but it will help you to produce more glutathione (debatable the bodies most powerful anti oxidant. This is key for proper health while living on or coming off of methadone. Kava (only sparingly and if you do not have liver problems for kava is known to be hepatoxic).. Pine Needle Pollen (an androgen powerhouse! look it up as this post is way too long as it is).. Lemon balm, magnolia extract, a glass of red wine a night (if you are predisposed to alcoholism skip the red wine and go right for the following two supplements:} Resveratrol and Quercetin, hesperidin for circulation, lots of water, black coffee is a testosterone producer- if the caffeine provokes anxiety in you then try green tea which contains many beneficial phytonutrients especially ltheanine...., Taurine prevents neuroinflammation, Pepto Bis. for severe withdrawal diarrhea.. Loperamide also for diarrhea but beware, if you are not yet making bowel movements, the Pepto and Loperamide will almost surely constipate you. Loperamide is actually a chemical relative of fentanyl that does not cross the blood brain barrier, however. Anecdotal reports say that loperamide ameliorates some of the peripheral opioid withdrawal symptoms such as joint pain, stomach problems, gooseflesh, etc. Cannabis is so key to help withdrawal from Methadone. The body's cannabinoid receptors main function is to correct imbalances in your body which present both in maintenance and withdrawal. Get whatever kind of cannabis you can come across but if you have a medical marijuana card you should stack up on RSO (a full spectrum, high THC edible form of Cannabis called Rick Simpson Oil created by yes Rick Simpson in a last ditch effort to cure his skin cancer. Believe it or not it worked! This stuff is incredibly potent and you can simply squeeze a rice sized piece of the oil to start into a capsule and swallow it down. Youll get incredibly effects from this seemingly tiny amount. It may actually be the only thing that can efficiently get you to sleep. However your tolerance will sky rocket almost immediately and youll need to double your dose every day. There is instructions online that explain how to make your own RSO from fresh cannabis. Edible forms of cannabis mainly RSO will help your body return to homeostasis quicker than probably anything else....) Try to get as many THC vape cartridges as you can afford because most likely you'll be too sick to want to get up and break up some flower and smoke it. Vapes will allow you to grab your pen, take a coupe hits, and set if back down for later. Some people, such as yours truly, prefer flower to vapor. I guess Im old school but flower contains all of the terpenes which add to the healing effects of cannabis... I recommend you chose an Indica as the help you relax. Sativa is more psychedelic. Most people chose to stay away from psychedelia while withdrawling. One example of a great Indica to chose while in this condition is Afghany. That stuff is one of the original Indicas and is incredibly mellow and comforting. More so than most any other strains I've tried. If you don't have access to medical marijuana and don't want to risk trouble with the law by purchasing it off the street, you have a few options as of Feb 2022. Because President Trump legalized hemp containing .3% thc or less, the door was opened for all kinds of goodies. This move legalized CBD which allowed chemists to manipulate certain molecules that are naturally in the Hemp into beautiful molecules such as Delta 8 THC, Delta 10 THC, THC-O Acetate, THCV, THC-P (30 times stronger than d9 thc (the main psychoactive component of cannabis)), CBN, and many more. You can purchase these molecules legally at your local head shop..... They come in flower form, tinctures (the strongest way to go), gummies (easiest way to control your dose), vape cartridges, disposable vapor pens, and more. Out of the lot d8 thc is IMO the most relaxing easy going of the lot. This will help you get a meal down which is incrediblly important. May even help you sleep. . If you are too tolerant then try THC-O first then finally for those with brass balls give the THC-P tinctures a try. Warning this stuff is very strong. Don't let its legality fool you! Its actually stronger than medical marijuana (in most cases).
OK that's all for now. Later after my fingers heal from typing this all up, Ill attach a post on how I used DXM to get over the post acute withdrawal period. It really did work!
I've been a member of BLUELIGHT forever now, and I still don't know how to start a new topic or thread. I think this post would have done better as a new thread entitled "Methadone, Testosterone, and Withdrawal Amelioration". If anyone knows how I can do that and move this post to start a new thread will you please help me to do that? I put a lot of work into this post. I did it for the bluelight community, as a way of paying back for all of the help I've obtained from BL over the years.
Thanks for your time and good luck!
@sp0r412 aka mygreenbic
Bonus:
1) pregabalin is amazing during withdrawal
2) essential oils such as linalool and patchouli
[IMG alt="mygreenbic"]https://bluelight.org/xf/data/avatars/m/218/218730.jpg?1643765428[/IMG]
mygreenbic
Last edited:
