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Heroin Methadone or Suboxone?

freesolo123

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 13, 2018
Messages
490
I have been smoking Heroin since May and have a appointment with the doctor at the drug clinic next Thursday, I know that these two drugs will be discussed and I would love to hear your thoughts on them.

It's not the first time I have got off Heroin, I have used Suboxone in the past and found jumping off it extremely hard and had very bad withdrawal, I have never used Methadone and always seen it as a old drug that is hard to get off but that's just my perception.

Has anyone ever found it smoother with Methadone? I actually really liked Suboxone in the 2-4mg range and felt very good on it, found it better than any antidepressant at treating my low mood, felt extremely motivated and could think clearly on that dosage too.

just trying to get a idea before I go in this time so I can make the decision instead of letting the Dr make the decision for me.

Thanks.
 
I have only experience in withdrawing from methadone, but for the most part they are both fairly equal in withdrawal. slightly more common is for methadone to be slightly more severe in how it stays in your fat cells and its full agonist effect, but its very common for this to vary due to each individuals chemistry. Its common for people to experience suboxone withdrawal more intensely than the methadone, but as a rule of thumb I'd place my bets on methadone being the real bully. the thing is though, for people who really do need the methadone it does work wonders maintenance wise in ways suboxone can not . so its always a trade off
 
Thanks for you Input lunchbox.

How long were you on it for? Did you ever use on top of your Methadone thats one positive on Suboxone it has Naloxone in it so using is pretty pointless.
 
I was on for close to 2 years, was initiated in at 30mg per day and worked my way up to around 90-100mg where I stayed for the majority of my experience, then moderately titrated by 2/mg a week to 30mg then jumped off. jumping off cold turkey was probably the biggest regret I have period when it comes to all my drug withdrawals. I can not stress how important it is to NOT jump off from any substantial dose for either subs or done. as long as you taper off PROPERLY and patiently you should reduce almost all risk of the horror story year long PAWS you hear about. also if you use it therapeutically an never take your daily dose above 50 or 60 mg, this will greatly help you in the long run.

I definitely used while for periods of time while I was in the methadone program. but it greatly reduced my demand and urge too, which is great. and it happened naturally, rather than by suboxone induced force, which psychologically definitely helped me realize I could overcome and there was infact happiness after opiates. I was able to save a lot of money and appreciate it more when I did use, progressively separating my emotional addiction from it further and further .

interestingly enough though methadone CANwork like a "ghetto" suboxone in certain situations. though it may not have naloxone or antagonist properties, at a high enough dose its affinity to the receptor and half life is so long and powerful that your receptors can be fully flooded at any given moment of the day, meaning sometimes if your dose is high enough, even short acting powerful opiates can prove to be much much weaker in effect than normal, you're basically stabilizing at full agonism and this even can take away certain pain managing effects over long periods of time. in fact I can recall the MOST painful tattoo experience I had was when I was on 90 mg of methadone and I even smoked heavily before and throughout the tattoo and it was SUBSTANIALLY more painful than what I'm used too, on opiates or sober. just as an example, this was after years of daily exposure to this dose tho.

when I was at 90mg I felt basically ZERO from BTH no matter how much I smoked, besides maybe slight potentation of the already present methadone slump, no real rush from the smoke atleast nothing substantial. . this isn't a white or black issue as it is for suboxone though so keeping a responsible dose is the make it or break it for this effect. after 50 or 60 mg is my guess on where the receptor starts getting fairly full.

methadone helped me much more than suboxone, with suboxone I wasn't able to stabalize and psychologically exacerbated my not yet ready to quit psyche while methadone allowed me to get into the groove of a dope free life while enjoying the chemistry of full agonism, so for me personally it was the only thing that possibility got me over that first year hump that we serious addicts have to suffer, though I did pay for it greatly with my withdrawals. it really depends on the situation, if you've been through this particular ringer a few times, methadone might be a good option. but consider the duration of time you plan on staying and if you ever plan on getting off before making a decision, for most methadone is only better because they dont plan on ever getting off. a MAJORITY of the people in my clinic were on the liquid handcuffs for life, and where well aware of it. depressing to say the least. but hey, life is too short , sometimes you gotta work with what you got.

wish you the best,
any questions let me know.
 
Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences, lots of great information, Much appreciated!!

Just a quick question about taking Methadone, I think I recall a Key worker saying that if you enjoy the high you get from Heroin then Methadone can replace that high where as Suboxone wont give you any real buzz. Do you feel this way? Does Methadone give you a high of some sort?
 
yes definitely, thats kind of what I meant when I said methadone allowed my not yet ready to quit self to actually enjoy the buzz I was so desperately needing while furthering myself away from not only the addiction of the street opiates but the scene and people as well. with suboxone the craving and intense want to use is still present for me, along with many of the withdrawal symptoms. there is a very pleasurable buzz that comes from the done, just at my starting dose of 30mg I was already MUCH more relieved than any dose of suboxone I've ever taken, it is an actual full opiate buzz. only problem is my drug addict self wanted to keep riding higher and higher even though I was well and stable. with methadone, another way its similar to suboxone is less is more and the higher I went up the more sedation I got until I hit around 50-70 then felt much less actual buzz and mostly just tiredness/lethargy.

there is definitely a high, in fact a very strong and strange one. its kind of like the kpins of opiates, long and subtle yet still quite acutely intense relatively speaking to its half life. some of the strongest nods I've ever had were from some of my first doses of methadone. the first time I tried methadone, a month or two before instating in the Program, I took 45mg of liquid and literally nodded out in MID SEX with my girlfriend at the time...like literally fell asleep while inside her vagina, that was a first for me lol. the strange thing was, although I felt massive relief and buzz, I could definitely tell I was high as a kite but I couldn't TELL I was nodding and drooling. I actually felt normal until I looked in the mirror and saw my jaw on the floor and my eyes shut LOL.

so its definitely powerful, very powerful. it just doesnt have the same exact incredibly distinct rush short acting opiates do, but it is ten fold more powerful than suboxone. I would suggest trying to once before making a full decision, as you know how suboxone effects you and you also know its withdrawals, and if you said the withdrawals were very difficult assess how much more relief you might get from the methadone and consider if its worth it. if you already have quite negative responses to suboxone it may make sense to atleast get more maintainence and stability out of the methadone, if only to not risk relapse again. but again suboxone also has its positives, like not having to dose daily at a clinic and take monthly UA's and all the sorts of fun they have you do at methadone clinics.
 
now that I re read your first post I have a question , have you only been using opiates since may period and the suboxone was since then? or where you using other opiates for longer periods of time before and may is only marking your relapse back onto H?

I ask because if you've only been using opiates for this year to even only a couple years, I would suggest getting on neither and riding through whatever withdrawal may be present for the 1-2 weeks of acute symptoms. maybe get some gabapentin clonidine and vitamins . these maintenance medications are easy to get on but normally should be reserved for people who have failed continuously and after relapse and relapse find themselves in the same position. if the addiction is still in mild to moderate stages, getting on a full agonist or even suboxone might be overkill and just taking out a loan you will have to pay back with greater interest than profit.

sometimes though the addiction is so severe that the actual trade off of longer and sometimes for severe withdrawals is actually a great trade off in relativity to risking jail time on the street daily, constantly sick and hurting daily, etc. I attempted getting clean multiple multiple times, relapsing over and over, going weeks and months sick like a dog just to relapse and start all over, it was wearing on my body and I ended up broke and quasi-homeless and had little to no other options. and even then I STILL sometimes beat myself up for getting in there in the first place. but as I said, for desperate times call for desperate measure and methadone is definitely the only reason I'm even clean right now off any opiates whatsoever.
 
I have been using Heroin + Crack since May and everyday last month but have used on and off for the last 10 years, have done a straight rattle off Heroin a few times but it never lasts, the 2 times I managed to stay clean the longest were when I came off using Suboxone.

I understand your concerns and know just how powerful these drugs are. I just feel I need to get myself into a good place mentally go to groups NA/CA. Ideally I could to a 6 month rehab but the spaces are really hard to get and you have to have shown that you are willing to work hard and try to get better, Maybe If I see the Dr and get a Script then show them that im willing to put the work in I could get a place in a rehab to come off Methadone/Suboxone?

I'm really not 100% sure what I want to do yet, yesterday I wanted a clean break and today I'm thinking Medication route who knows what tomorrow will be but that is the nature of addiction i guess.
 
Okay that makes more sense . I would personally suggest the methadone route , as you?ve hand prior experience with suboxone which was only somewhat successful. Either that or cold turkey. To me the withdrawals of suboxone don?t seem worth it for the amount of help they give.

As I?m sure you know well, kindling effect / withdrawal sensitivity increases over time and duration , so even though you?ve only been using since may this go around, your withdrawals will be the severity of this current span with the addition of already registered earlier withdrawals you?ve experienced. This is why maintaining is normally the go to way for people with decades invested into the addiction. One thing you could attempt is a short taper with methadone , using it for just a week or so. Although this is very impossible to have accOmplished through a clinic as they want to keep you and stabilize you as much as possible. Potentially with your doctor though. With methadones nature and fat storage it might be smarter to stabilize on it until your life seems a little more normal. Either way it?s a great crutch for people in our situation, it?s just very easy to dig yourself a whole that might take your whole life to dig back out of. I know I?ve kind of went back and forth but I hope it is helping .
 
I was on for close to 2 years, was initiated in at 30mg per day and worked my way up to around 90-100mg where I stayed for the majority of my experience, then moderately titrated by 2/mg a week to 30mg then jumped off. jumping off cold turkey was probably the biggest regret I have period when it comes to all my drug withdrawals. I can not stress how important it is to NOT jump off from any substantial dose for either subs or done. as long as you taper off PROPERLY and patiently you should reduce almost all risk of the horror story year long PAWS you hear about. also if you use it therapeutically an never take your daily dose above 50 or 60 mg, this will greatly help you in the long run.

I definitely used while for periods of time while I was in the methadone program. but it greatly reduced my demand and urge too, which is great. and it happened naturally, rather than by suboxone induced force, which psychologically definitely helped me realize I could overcome and there was infact happiness after opiates. I was able to save a lot of money and appreciate it more when I did use, progressively separating my emotional addiction from it further and further .

interestingly enough though methadone CANwork like a "ghetto" suboxone in certain situations. though it may not have naloxone or antagonist properties, at a high enough dose its affinity to the receptor and half life is so long and powerful that your receptors can be fully flooded at any given moment of the day, meaning sometimes if your dose is high enough, even short acting powerful opiates can prove to be much much weaker in effect than normal, you're basically stabilizing at full agonism and this even can take away certain pain managing effects over long periods of time. in fact I can recall the MOST painful tattoo experience I had was when I was on 90 mg of methadone and I even smoked heavily before and throughout the tattoo and it was SUBSTANIALLY more painful than what I'm used too, on opiates or sober. just as an example, this was after years of daily exposure to this dose tho.

when I was at 90mg I felt basically ZERO from BTH no matter how much I smoked, besides maybe slight potentation of the already present methadone slump, no real rush from the smoke atleast nothing substantial. . this isn't a white or black issue as it is for suboxone though so keeping a responsible dose is the make it or break it for this effect. after 50 or 60 mg is my guess on where the receptor starts getting fairly full.

methadone helped me much more than suboxone, with suboxone I wasn't able to stabalize and psychologically exacerbated my not yet ready to quit psyche while methadone allowed me to get into the groove of a dope free life while enjoying the chemistry of full agonism, so for me personally it was the only thing that possibility got me over that first year hump that we serious addicts have to suffer, though I did pay for it greatly with my withdrawals. it really depends on the situation, if you've been through this particular ringer a few times, methadone might be a good option. but consider the duration of time you plan on staying and if you ever plan on getting off before making a decision, for most methadone is only better because they dont plan on ever getting off. a MAJORITY of the people in my clinic were on the liquid handcuffs for life, and where well aware of it. depressing to say the least. but hey, life is too short , sometimes you gotta work with what you got.

wish you the best,
any questions let me know.

It doesn't fill every receptor, though at high doses, street drugs are pointless (almost)

OP: Some people need ORT for periods, or life , even - is there a reason you want to "get off of methadone/suboxone " anytime soon, (after kicking) or is it a misguided being "clean" - 'cause the latter, well you keep relapsing, ORT should at least be considered (although also smoking crack, stopping that(the speedballing) should be near the top of the list

We have threads about methadone vs suboxone, and this is getting a bit off of our (Other 1D) goal in this subforum. Wish you well, though, and hope you find your answers and help

:)
 
My recommendation is always to try sub first especially especially if you are not a long term iv heroin user.

You may have great success on sub if you have been smoking your Dope.

If you were snorting oxy it would be even better.

I do not believe methadone detox can be succceasful. By that I mean those 21 day methadone tapers. Where as a 5-21 day sub taper can be effective.

It?s all about your duration of use, drug you used and roa. And that ultimately will determine how you react to the sub and how well it will work for you.

However, I found sub to work less and less the more times I started Andrew stopped it. The first 3 days off heroin and onto sub became unbearable.
 
Sober living has some good methadone threads you may want to read . It'll give you a good idea what it's like day by day during WDs . I'm 23 days off of methadone . From what I've gathered they are pretty similar withdrawal wise . Methadone causes some different WDs because it acts on some other receptors also . A good rule of thumb is methadone causes half the WD intensity of short acting opiate , but twice as long acute WDs. Hope what ever choice you make that it works for you .
 
^ Except the doses of methadone they give are ABSURD, in some cases. ~100mg methadone, That is ABOUT a quarter gram; (equivalent to)

If you don't inject morphine or derivatives like crazy, and take a pill addiction to a clinic, then you may double or triple your tolerance; even 80mg is 200-300 mg pxycodone, with a (sometimes) very long duration, and slow elimination

Just saying have witnessed people snorting Roxie 30's and H-morphone, getting out of hand, and then the clinic help (s/ed) however the WD if they ever have to come to off is far worse, and lasts so long, days later it starts waxing and waning, it has s kinda crazy
Completely support ORT, just saying - One guy had a pacemaker put in, because he was on ~300 mg methadone per day, and it was causing heart issued (methadone, in very large doses mind you (typically) prolong la the QT interval )

Apperantly this guy refused to lower his dose, so... eventually a pacemaker. Wtf?

Ok being random now. Carry on, carry on BL, ers? ;)
 
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