Opioids Methadone and Fentanyl combination?

[ovo1024]

Hi so I finally got on and enrolled at the Methadone clinic because my life is fucked up currently. I've been going there for 3 weeks now. My dose is 60mg a day, but it's not enough and I put in to see the doctor over a week ago (that's what you have to do regarding dosage increases) but she didn't have an available appointment until 02/06/2023 which that annoyed me but whatever. But anyways I've tried to not use much but I still have been, albeit much less.

And where I live in Arizona, on the North western part of the state, Heroin is very hard to find, for opioids, your only real choice is those pressed blue pills. Which contain one of the Fentnyal analogues. Oh and sometimes the pure Fentnyal powder will come thru town but not too often. Anyways, it's crazy cuz I can easily smoke 10-12 blues in a day, but my friend said she only smoked half of one of these blues and she said her boyfriend almost had to call 911...

so now I'm wondering, is the methadone I'm on just increasing my overall opioid tolerance? Or is it just Making it so I get fucked up quicker and easier? And am I in any real danger of overdosing myself? Mind you I've also been either IV'ng Heroin daily or smoking Fent daily for the past 3 years or so.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

You're still using 12 blues on top of 60mg of methadone? Or are you switching?

And yes, you're playing with fire and could easily OD. Don't forget that methadone has a very long half life.

 

[ovo1024]

You're still using 12 blues on top of 60mg of methadone? Or are you switching?

And yes, you're playing with fire and could easily OD. Don't forget that methadone has a very long half life.

I'm sorry I guess I should have been more clear, what I meant was before I got on methadone my habit was I would smoke 10-12 Fentnyal blues a day or if I didn't have any of that I would need at least a half gram of Heroin throughout the day to keep me well. Usually doing about 3 good good sized shots a day.

 

[ovo1024]

You're still using 12 blues on top of 60mg of methadone? Or are you switching?

And yes, you're playing with fire and could easily OD. Don't forget that methadone has a very long half life.

But also, I'm not gonna lie, I've picked up blues many times since getting on the Methadone clinic.

 

[gustofer]

That's your tolerance 100%. 60 is a pretty low dose. Idk why the clinics fuck with people like this. Thr clinic where I live currently in the PNW - ive been going for exactly 1 week and I'm only at 44mg. I finally have another appointment tommorow but the dr will only raise it 14mg per app. It is super annoying. When I lived in vegas they would get you up to 90mg/day within like 3 or 4 days which is usually where I would stay but I've known people at like 140mg or 160mg a day. The blues are here too and tbh I only used this time for like 6 weeks, maybe 10/day and once I got on methadone I used like 5 pills the first few days so I know my tolerance isn't crazy right now but I still feel sick at 44mg of methadone. This post was from like a month ago so I hope you got your dose raised but for 10-12 pills a day habit I personally would think 60mg is like half of where you should be. I also read that the fentanyl stays in your system like methadone, in terms of withdrawals and tolerance. So if you still using plus your methadone your tolerance is gonna stay high like that.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

That's your tolerance 100%. 60 is a pretty low dose. Idk why the clinics fuck with people like this. Thr clinic where I live currently in the PNW - ive been going for exactly 1 week and I'm only at 44mg. I finally have another appointment tommorow but the dr will only raise it 14mg per app. It is super annoying. When I lived in vegas they would get you up to 90mg/day within like 3 or 4 days which is usually where I would stay but I've known people at like 140mg or 160mg a day. The blues are here too and tbh I only used this time for like 6 weeks, maybe 10/day and once I got on methadone I used like 5 pills the first few days so I know my tolerance isn't crazy right now but I still feel sick at 44mg of methadone. This post was from like a month ago so I hope you got your dose raised but for 10-12 pills a day habit I personally would think 60mg is like half of where you should be. I also read that the fentanyl stays in your system like methadone, in terms of withdrawals and tolerance. So if you still using plus your methadone your tolerance is gonna stay high like that.

Most chronic pain patients would eat literal shit to get a fraction of the dose addicts get for their withdrawal pain.

 

[gustofer]

Most chronic pain patients would eat literal shit to get a fraction of the dose addicts get for their withdrawal pain.

Yea I agree 100%. Ive had a few friends that once they hit 155mg/day they had to start paying double but it didn't stop them from going higher. Its pretty crazy but I think the clinics like having the guaranteed repeat customer. I was on suboxone for awhile, like 18 months up until I relapsed mid February. Then I used for like 6 weeks and now have been on methadone for about 2 weeks and normally my dose would be way higher but I'm still at 44mg after 2 weeks and the doc here is making it soooo difficult to go higher. First i had to get blood work and theyre waiting on that, then she was out of the office on my appointment day, now ill have another appointment on like the 11th but that will be over 2 weeks since I started the program. So TBH I think I might just stay at 44. Maybe go up 1 more time to 58mg/day. I know having liquid handcuffs is no fun. I guess I feel stable enough at 44 I could go back to work and function like a normal human being. I'm just not completely comfortable but this doc up here is making it so difficult.
I'm really just debating if I'm the kind of person who needs this for the rest of my life, or can I actually just use it to get off opiates? Idk but I gotta figure it out.

 

[FlippedFaith]

honestly t

Yea I agree 100%. Ive had a few friends that once they hit 155mg/day they had to start paying double but it didn't stop them from going higher. Its pretty crazy but I think the clinics like having the guaranteed repeat customer. I was on suboxone for awhile, like 18 months up until I relapsed mid February. Then I used for like 6 weeks and now have been on methadone for about 2 weeks and normally my dose would be way higher but I'm still at 44mg after 2 weeks and the doc here is making it soooo difficult to go higher. First i had to get blood work and theyre waiting on that, then she was out of the office on my appointment day, now ill have another appointment on like the 11th but that will be over 2 weeks since I started the program. So TBH I think I might just stay at 44. Maybe go up 1 more time to 58mg/day. I know having liquid handcuffs is no fun. I guess I feel stable enough at 44 I could go back to work and function like a normal human being. I'm just not completely comfortable but this doc up here is making it so difficult.
I'm really just debating if I'm the kind of person who needs this for the rest of my life, or can I actually just use it to get off opiates? Idk but I gotta figure it out.

honestly you shouldnt have to figure anything out, this was planned out when you started. they know you need more medicine especially at 44mg...even at 100mg u might need more.. i would complain, tell the front staff ..if i cant get the dose increase ima just use because its not holding " you ". they will get your dose up super fast knowning you might use a deadly substnace like fentanyl. but 15mg dose increase at one time is ideal and rare. only had 1 clinic that allowed that before. and don't do the blues anymore that stuff is garbage, once you get a theraputic dose of methadone you will be so happy. and you will nod. remember try your best not to go above 140mg. Methadone is a real opioid and should be treated with the utmost respect. it will kill you if you play around with high doses of methadone/benzos or using methadone just to not be sick and do other drugs.

 

[Dextro .45]

Methadone 80mg daily 7am + additional 20mg at 6pm is sore from hard day

Methadone 20mg (100mg that day total)
Diazepam 10mg X 5 tablets (50mg Valium)
Pregabalin 300mg
Phenibut 1.5g @ 11am
LSD-25 / 100ug standard tab @ 11am (2pm Acid & Phenibut both onset and near peak)
Jin 2oz in Ginger Ale

Every time I make a nice drink and head out to balcony for a fresh Belmont I usually blast a nice like of oily shimmering tropane alkaloid, god the U.S. markets insatiable appetite for Cocaine & Heroin


Two oldest drugs know to man kind…..papivier somniferum (opium poppy) with its invaluable natural alkaloids Morphine, Codiene, theBaine, Papivier, etc, etc

The direct translation to the opium poppy “plant of joy” potent analgesic painkilling properties in addition to dopaminergic/opioid euphoric elation in our complexed mammalian CNS with all its monoamines and natural opioid peptides

Khat in the Horn of Africa (beta-ketone-amphetamine) chewing fresh bushels of freshly harvested Khat …..would have an amphetamine dopaminergic euphoric stimulant mood-boosting properties

South America the Incas chewing Coca for 3,000+ years ……god bless 19th/20th century pharmacology & science …isolating 100% pure tropane alkaloid……Cocaine Hydrochloride

d-N-Desoxyephedrine Hydrochloride “METHEDRINE” Methamphetamine HCL
Pervitin
Desoxyn
Desbutal


Bayer Pharmaceutical- Diacetylmorphine (Heroin)

Pure Pharma grade powder, Cocaine & Heroin intravenously injected into someone in the comfort of their own home, beside a roaring fireplace, reading a book, cleaning your brand new Colt Government Model .45 ACP M1911-A1 in polished blued mirror bright finish with American walnut grips, two 7-round magazines, owners manual, box, papers

Just a heavy, SOLID, build like a freaking TANK of Forged ordnance grade steel, over 100 Years Of Service

the American flagship ….. legendary Colt M1911-A1 .45 Automatic Govt Model

WW1
WW11
Korean War
Vietnam War
Gulf War
Gulf War (Beretta M9 1985 replaced the Colt M1911 .45 ACP)

But that p@$$y European 9mm round does t have the MASS & MUSCLE to drop a jacked up combatant fucked on Amphetamines/Khat

.45 ACP is a Massive 230 grain JHP. Special Forces are using custom match grade Colt 1911 .45 Auto that will drop some f@ck at close range with 8+1 capacity of premium +P bonded Jacketed Hollow Point .45 Caliber @ 1,000 feet per second out of the muzzle

9mm 115 grain FMJ ball ammo goes right through the target, no energy deposited, no massive internal ballistic tissue damage…….the guy will pick up his POF AK-47 7.62mm Soviet and continue to fight

When that Delta Force Special Operator would’ve pumped a double tab of massive weight/mass/diameter .45 Cal bonded +P hyper velocity premium hollow point ammo designed to expand in soft human targets cause catistrophic terminal ballistic damage

The Colt M1911A1 Government Model .45 Cal will NEVER DIE

.45 ACP ….google it sized against the European 9mm Luger cartridge lol

 

[RxVeritas]

Most chronic pain patients would eat literal shit to get a fraction of the dose addicts get for their withdrawal pain.

I believe, and I could be wrong here, but methadone tablets prescribed for pain are usually racemic, whereas the liquid methadone used for maintenance therapy has barely any of the more desirable D-isomer; something like a 1:16 to 1:32 D:L ratio, which varies by brand.

I'm pretty sure I looked this up back in the day because I scored a bunch of 10mg methadone tablets, and at the time I was also consitently getting maintenance doses (120mg) from a dude who I used to drive to the methadone clinic once a week.

I would generally consume at least half of that 120mg, combined with varying amounts of prescribed (6mg/day) klonopin (anywhere from two or three milligrams, to well in the double digit milligrams) and cannabis, often times drinking casually; a few beers at the bar with the boys (OBVIOUSLY I do not endorse this).

When I contrast those experiences, of which there were many, with the few times I had methadone tablets, the difference in potency, analgesia, side effects (including euphoria), and the overall experience, qualitatively, is HUGE.

Three 10mg methadone tablets, the usual several mgs of klonopin and cannabis, two hours, and a couple beers later and I was throwing up, higher than

Imagine being on "mixed amphetamine salts" that, instead of being 62.5% (I'm not positive on that number, just sticks out to me for some reason) dextroamphetamine (the D-isomer, which is responsible for the CNS stimulation and the desirable affects that one gets from "mixed amphetamine salts") was instead only 3% dextroamphetamine
(that would be a 1:32 D:L ratio, please correct me if I'm wrong becuase I may be a little out of my league here). You would still get the peripheral nervous system stimulation, but qualitatively it would be NOTHING like the standard "mixed amphetamine salts", although it would keep you clear of any kind of withdrawals.


It's not a perfect comparison because methadone and amphetamine are obviously quite different drugs, but point being:


Methadone tablets, as far as I know, are only racemic.

I forget which brand it was, but the ratio of their liquid methadone was 1:32 D:L, I believe.

Maybe things have changed, because this was 10-15 years ago.

But never, ever, assume that liquid methadone and methadone tablets are the same, because they're not. You could probably use google the color to figure out (or at least narrow down) the brand that a clinic uses, and therefore the D:L ratio, in order to see how much of the good stuff you're actually getting,


IDK, I think most of this is right but if I'm off base here please let me know, it's been a wonky day

 

[bboyyychik]

Hi so I finally got on and enrolled at the Methadone clinic because my life is fucked up currently. I've been going there for 3 weeks now. My dose is 60mg a day, but it's not enough and I put in to see the doctor over a week ago (that's what you have to do regarding dosage increases) but she didn't have an available appointment until 02/06/2023 which that annoyed me but whatever. But anyways I've tried to not use much but I still have been, albeit much less.

And where I live in Arizona, on the North western part of the state, Heroin is very hard to find, for opioids, your only real choice is those pressed blue pills. Which contain one of the Fentnyal analogues. Oh and sometimes the pure Fentnyal powder will come thru town but not too often. Anyways, it's crazy cuz I can easily smoke 10-12 blues in a day, but my friend said she only smoked half of one of these blues and she said her boyfriend almost had to call 911...

so now I'm wondering, is the methadone I'm on just increasing my overall opioid tolerance? Or is it just Making it so I get fucked up quicker and easier? And am I in any real danger of overdosing myself? Mind you I've also been either IV'ng Heroin daily or smoking Fent daily for the past 3 years or so.

You are increasing ur tolerance by a huge percentage. Eventually, if you keep upping you methadone dose, it will have a blocking effect on any opioids (even fet), but if ur like me, you'll spend $15,000 trying to get high anyway until you accept the fact that you cannot, no matter how much fet you take. And you will be able to tolerate huge amounts of fet in each shot is because ur tolerance will be high af, yet you STILL WON'T BE BE TO GET HIGH...and it takes a long ass time to be able to feel opioid effects after stop taking methadone. It is good to know that u chose to go on methdone and have decreased ur usage. I live in New York, where anything you want is available within a 5-min radius any time of the day or night. Good luck to you!

 

[negrogesic]

You are increasing ur dose by a huge percentage. Eventually, if you keep upping you methadone dose, it will have a blocking effect on any opioids (even fet), but if ur like me, you'll spend $15,000 trying to get high anyway until you accept the fact that you cannot, no matter how much fet you take. And you will be able to tolerate huge amounts of fet in each shot is because ur tolerance will be high af, yet you STILL WON'T BE BE TO GET HIGH...and it takes a long ass time to be able to feel opioid effects after stop taking methadone. It is good to know that u chose to go on methdone and have decreased ur usage. I live in New York, where anything you want is available within a 5-min radius any time of the day or night. Good luck to you!

I dunno, I was once on a whopping 380mg/day of methadone and I used to shoot the entire contents of a 100ug/hr fentanyl patch (back when they were the gel reservoir type) in a giant shot, and I definitely felt it. Granted that's the equivalent of shooting 10 average blue's worth of fentanyl in a single shot. On occasion I'd shoot two patches (so around 20 blues worth), and would lose consciousness, wake up on the floor, etc. So the methadone blocking veil can be pierced, even at 380mg/day of methadone, but you have to go to extremes.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

I dunno, I was once on a whopping 380mg/day of methadone and I used to shoot the entire contents of a 100ug/hr fentanyl patch (back when they were the gel reservoir type) in a giant shot, and I definitely felt it. Granted that's the equivalent of shooting 10 average blue's worth of fentanyl in a single shot. On occasion I'd shoot two patches (so around 20 blues worth), and would lose consciousness, wake up on the floor, etc. So the methadone blocking veil can be pierced, even at 380mg/day of methadone, but you have to go to extremes.

Where would you put 80mg methadone regards to dose of oxy/hydromorph that would work through the methadone etc

 

[tokayeahok]

Most chronic pain patients would eat literal shit to get a fraction of the dose addicts get for their withdrawal pain.

yeah was gunna say, 60mg is a really high dose for any opiate naive person.

OP, just heed the advice most people have said on here. you’ve got a tolerance but still doesn’t mean you could get a batch of carfentanyl and a pill with one hot spot and it all be over for. up your methadone dose and keep doing that until you don’t feel the need to use blues - it’s not a scotch-free way out of addiction, you’ve got to want to put some mental effort into it as well otherwise MAT is just a bandaid if you don’t address that inner demon y’know?

be careful, come to the recovery thread and chat with us all if you’d like

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hi so I finally got on and enrolled at the Methadone clinic because my life is fucked up currently. I've been going there for 3 weeks now. My dose is 60mg a day, but it's not enough and I put in to see the doctor over a week ago (that's what you have to do regarding dosage increases) but she didn't have an available appointment until 02/06/2023 which that annoyed me but whatever. But anyways I've tried to not use much but I still have been, albeit much less.

And where I live in Arizona, on the North western part of the state, Heroin is very hard to find, for opioids, your only real choice is those pressed blue pills. Which contain one of the Fentnyal analogues. Oh and sometimes the pure Fentnyal powder will come thru town but not too often. Anyways, it's crazy cuz I can easily smoke 10-12 blues in a day, but my friend said she only smoked half of one of these blues and she said her boyfriend almost had to call 911...

so now I'm wondering, is the methadone I'm on just increasing my overall opioid tolerance? Or is it just Making it so I get fucked up quicker and easier? And am I in any real danger of overdosing myself? Mind you I've also been either IV'ng Heroin daily or smoking Fent daily for the past 3 years or so.

The system for maintenance is not designed to deal with the levels of dependence that have occured as a result of the Fentanyl problem. As you said in your post, people are all over the place with this shit. Someone can die from coming into contact with one of these, while people like yourself can use a dozen per day.

If the clinic were set up to handle Fentanyl dependence, they'd be starting people at 60mg instead of 30mg at the very least and making jumps much more quickly than the usual 5m-10mg/5 days that seems to be the standard. This leaves people like yourself in limbo, needing to keep using while they take the time to get their dosage raised. I'm sorry your clinic is shitty. They're not all operated like that. At my clinic, the doctor can pretty easily say "120mg will be your cap and we can raise every 5 days until that point, at which time you will need to see me again", This is how most people are inducting at the clinic now.

I live in Vermont and I'm from Boston originally. We had a really bad Heroin problem before it became cool to have a really bad Heroin problem so some of our practitioners are more liberal or should I say, pragmatic in their approach.

It's likely that your situation will entail continuing to use Fentanyl while you get your dose to the appropriate level. However, doing this right means really digging deep and asking yourself how much you need to be okay. Going to the clinic is a major crossroads for people. Some turn right and end up getting better, while many go left and develop significantly worse addiction issuses; for instance, having your Opioids taken care of might mean more funds for Crack or Booze. The clinic then turns these people into wicked bad poly-substance addicts.

So you need to decide what you're going to do. The clinic is either going to make you better or worse and that is all dependent upon what you do next. I would harang the shit out of that doctor short of being aggressive. Make sure she knows you're in the shit. Show up to her office sick as fuck and vomit into her wastebasket (Yes, I've done this and it works like a fucking charm). If you can't actually puke on command, take a swig of red gatorade, chew up some saltines in your mouth and as soon as you walk in without saying a word (cause you can't) violently spew this mixture on the floor and into the wastebasket as if you can't control it. After that, start crying like a little bitch and act hysterical.

The art of deception that we all are so great at can come in handy for getting shit done in other areas of your life. This is one of those. Convince that clinic that you could potentially be dead from dehydration and that your widow might sue the shit out of them for malpractice.

Unfortunately, this is pretty clear cut. You're going to need to taper yourself while you wait for the right dosage to come into play. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[tokayeahok]

The system for maintenance is not designed to deal with the levels of dependence that have occured as a result of the Fentanyl problem. As you said in your post, people are all over the place with this shit. Someone can die from coming into contact with one of these, while people like yourself can use a dozen per day.

If the clinic were set up to handle Fentanyl dependence, they'd be starting people at 60mg instead of 30mg at the very least and making jumps much more quickly than the usual 5m-10mg/5 days that seems to be the standard. This leaves people like yourself in limbo, needing to keep using while they take the time to get their dosage raised. I'm sorry your clinic is shitty. They're not all operated like that. At my clinic, the doctor can pretty easily say "120mg will be your cap and we can raise every 5 days until that point, at which time you will need to see me again", This is how most people are inducting at the clinic now.

I live in Vermont and I'm from Boston originally. We had a really bad Heroin problem before it became cool to have a really bad Heroin problem so some of our practitioners are more liberal or should I say, pragmatic in their approach.

It's likely that your situation will entail continuing to use Fentanyl while you get your dose to the appropriate level. However, doing this right means really digging deep and asking yourself how much you need to be okay. Going to the clinic is a major crossroads for people. Some turn right and end up getting better, while many go left and develop significantly worse addiction issuses; for instance, having your Opioids taken care of might mean more funds for Crack or Booze. The clinic then turns these people into wicked bad poly-substance addicts.

So you need to decide what you're going to do. The clinic is either going to make you better or worse and that is all dependent upon what you do next. I would harang the shit out of that doctor short of being aggressive. Make sure she knows you're in the shit. Show up to her office sick as fuck and vomit into her wastebasket (Yes, I've done this and it works like a fucking charm). If you can't actually puke on command, take a swig of red gatorade, chew up some saltines in your mouth and as soon as you walk in without saying a word (cause you can't) violently spew this mixture on the floor and into the wastebasket as if you can't control it. After that, start crying like a little bitch and act hysterical.

The art of deception that we all are so great at can come in handy for getting shit done in other areas of your life. This is one of those. Convince that clinic that you could potentially be dead from dehydration and that your widow might sue the shit out of them for malpractice.

Unfortunately, this is pretty clear cut. You're going to need to taper yourself while you wait for the right dosage to come into play. Let me know if you have any questions

very well said.

 

[FlippedFaith]

Methadone is way better then this garbage fentanyl that is n the streets, as soon as i got on methadone i felt way better for at least 3 hours compared to 10minutes on fentanyl with no euphoria, the fentanyl on the street is the not same as pharma fentanyl ie patches suckers w/e.. i was doing 12 fent pills a day up to 15 but i had to not go too crazy or i would be broke but i know i could probably do at least 30 a day easily. once u get to around 80mg methadone you will be fine, rest is mental, granted u mighr wake up at 12midnight waiting to go the clinic like iam right now

 

[hwbush336]

honestly t

honestly you shouldnt have to figure anything out, this was planned out when you started. they know you need more medicine especially at 44mg...even at 100mg u might need more.. i would complain, tell the front staff ..if i cant get the dose increase ima just use because its not holding " you ". they will get your dose up super fast knowning you might use a deadly substnace like fentanyl. but 15mg dose increase at one time is ideal and rare. only had 1 clinic that allowed that before. and don't do the blues anymore that stuff is garbage, once you get a theraputic dose of methadone you will be so happy. and you will nod. remember try your best not to go above 140mg. Methadone is a real opioid and should be treated with the utmost respect. it will kill you if you play around with high doses of methadone/benzos or using methadone just to not be sick and do other drugs.

Oh I totally agree , exactly a month after I stopped the fyntinol completely and was fully detoxed off fyntinol at the time I was at 178 mg and I soon found out that was wayyy to much lol . I had no idea when the said the methodone would work way better when I got off the Fetty there were not joking. I'm down to 162 in 8 days still nodding like crazy when I get off work so started to split doses

Methadone is way better then this garbage fentanyl that is n the streets, as soon as i got on methadone i felt way better for at least 3 hours compared to 10minutes on fentanyl with no euphoria, the fentanyl on the street is the not same as pharma fentanyl ie patches suckers w/e.. i was doing 12 fent pills a day up to 15 but i had to not go too crazy or i would be broke but i know i could probably do at least 30 a day easily. once u get to around 80mg methadone you will be fine, rest is mental, granted u mighr wake up at 12midnight waiting to go the clinic like iam right now

I totally agree I'm on 162 and bro I nod every fucking day I'm down from 178 and soon as I got off the Fetty I started feeling the done and WOWWW