Harm Reduction Meth without the L

[tattooed Dude]

Clean meth ain't easy to get these days. This new stuff that is being mass produced by the cartel is a 50/50 at best of L-meth and D-meth. So tartaric is used to remove the L-meth. How would someone go about doing that? If they have the Tartaric acid, what else is needed? And what is the process for doing this?

 

[blazR]

Recycling unwanted by-product: a game-changer in methamphetamine production​

Previously, when the d-methamphetamine was separated using tartaric acid, the leftover material containing the l-isomer was regarded as an unwanted by-product to be discarded. Illustrating the continuous drive to improve efficiency and profits, illicit drug producers in Europe have introduced new methods to reconvert these discarded solutions back to a racemic 50:50 mixture of d- and l-methamphetamine, from which the d-methamphetamine can be separated using tartaric acid. These recycling procedures explain the record quantities of tartaric acid seized in Europe (see Figure Quantity of tartaric acid seized in Europe).

This process can be repeated several times: each time a fraction with the unwanted l-methamphetamine is produced, it can be reconverted (‘racemised’) back to a mixture and the d-isomer separated until the waste cannot be further recycled. The process, called ‘RRR’ (resolution-racemisation-recycling) (see Figure Processing of methamphetamine: resolution-racemisation-recycling), is a standard technique used in the pharmaceutical industry to increase production yields of medicines where only one isomer is pharmaceutically active (Astleford and Weigel, 1997). The RRR technique increases the yield of d-methamphetamine from BMK from 50 % to 75 % after one iteration, up to 87.5 % on the second iteration and 93.75 % by the third. The racemisation of the discarded solutions of l-methamphetamine is triggered using small amounts of a chemical such as AIBN (or another radical initiator) and a source of thiyl radicals (for example methyl thioglycolate, thioglycolic acid or dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate) (Escoubet et al., 2006; Yerande et al., 2014). AIBN has a low decomposition temperature, can easily ignite and its use presents a risk of explosion (National Center for Biotechnology Information, 2022).

Data reported to the European Commission indicates that in 2020, 327 kilograms of AIBN, 525 kilograms of methyl thioglycolate, 248 kilograms of dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate and 2.5 litres of thioglycolic acid were seized in Europe. Partial data available for 2021 indicate seizures of 19 kilograms of AIBN, 90 kilograms of methyl thioglycolate, 139 kilograms of dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate and 20 litres of thioglycolic acid. All seizures occurred in the Netherlands and some were seized during the dismantling of illicit laboratories. Information reported by Dutch police to the EMCDDA indicates that at least one shipment of 13 kilograms of AIBN in 2021 originated in Mexico. As well as indicating the level of sophistication involved, bearing in mind that these reagents are required in small amounts (relative to the quantity of methamphetamine being treated), the quantities seized provide further evidence of the scale of methamphetamine production using BMK methods in Europe. They also show that combining the expertise of Mexican and Dutch drug producers and applying techniques from the pharmaceutical industry has maximised production efficiency.

Main methamphetamine production methods used in Europe | www.emcdda.europa.eu

www.emcdda.europa.eu

 

[tattooed Dude]

Recycling unwanted by-product: a game-changer in methamphetamine production​

Previously, when the d-methamphetamine was separated using tartaric acid, the leftover material containing the l-isomer was regarded as an unwanted by-product to be discarded. Illustrating the continuous drive to improve efficiency and profits, illicit drug producers in Europe have introduced new methods to reconvert these discarded solutions back to a racemic 50:50 mixture of d- and l-methamphetamine, from which the d-methamphetamine can be separated using tartaric acid. These recycling procedures explain the record quantities of tartaric acid seized in Europe (see Figure Quantity of tartaric acid seized in Europe).

This process can be repeated several times: each time a fraction with the unwanted l-methamphetamine is produced, it can be reconverted (‘racemised’) back to a mixture and the d-isomer separated until the waste cannot be further recycled. The process, called ‘RRR’ (resolution-racemisation-recycling) (see Figure Processing of methamphetamine: resolution-racemisation-recycling), is a standard technique used in the pharmaceutical industry to increase production yields of medicines where only one isomer is pharmaceutically active (Astleford and Weigel, 1997). The RRR technique increases the yield of d-methamphetamine from BMK from 50 % to 75 % after one iteration, up to 87.5 % on the second iteration and 93.75 % by the third. The racemisation of the discarded solutions of l-methamphetamine is triggered using small amounts of a chemical such as AIBN (or another radical initiator) and a source of thiyl radicals (for example methyl thioglycolate, thioglycolic acid or dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate) (Escoubet et al., 2006; Yerande et al., 2014). AIBN has a low decomposition temperature, can easily ignite and its use presents a risk of explosion (National Center for Biotechnology Information, 2022).

Data reported to the European Commission indicates that in 2020, 327 kilograms of AIBN, 525 kilograms of methyl thioglycolate, 248 kilograms of dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate and 2.5 litres of thioglycolic acid were seized in Europe. Partial data available for 2021 indicate seizures of 19 kilograms of AIBN, 90 kilograms of methyl thioglycolate, 139 kilograms of dimyristyl peroxydicarbonate and 20 litres of thioglycolic acid. All seizures occurred in the Netherlands and some were seized during the dismantling of illicit laboratories. Information reported by Dutch police to the EMCDDA indicates that at least one shipment of 13 kilograms of AIBN in 2021 originated in Mexico. As well as indicating the level of sophistication involved, bearing in mind that these reagents are required in small amounts (relative to the quantity of methamphetamine being treated), the quantities seized provide further evidence of the scale of methamphetamine production using BMK methods in Europe. They also show that combining the expertise of Mexican and Dutch drug producers and applying techniques from the pharmaceutical industry has maximised production efficiency.

Main methamphetamine production methods used in Europe | www.emcdda.europa.eu

www.emcdda.europa.eu

So I found this as informative as can be expected. Thanx for the response. The only thing that I didn't get from this was the actual process. I understand that most information is going to be limited for the safety of my garage, the neighbors, ECT. So if you have any ideas on what I can do to find out what the process is, I would be grateful.

 

[blazR]

I don't, sorry.. I believe it should be pretty straight forward with a chem degree and lab training though.

Maybe this can help you further; https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.html

 

[negrogesic]

Unfortunately, resolution of isomers is not the type of thing that the average person can accomplish at home.

This new mass produced cartel meth does suck, but it's not quite as extreme as it being a 50:50 ratio (aka, racemic ratio) of d-meth/l-meth. The mexicans do perform resolution of the initial racemic product, but they do a half-assed job. They resolve it to the point where it has a high enough proportion of d-meth in it to make the product look similar (and also work effectively as a strong CNS stimulant), but they leave enough l-methamphetamine in it to make it feel far edgier and less enjoyable than the old school enantiomerically pure d-meth made from pseudoephedrine.

This is why you'll never see completely clear shards of this new meth; this new meth is noticeably more hazy than the shards from the good pseudoephedrine based meth (well made pseudoephedrine derived meth can take the form of completely clear shards). Also, another difference is that crystals of enantiomerically pure d-meth are much harder than this new stuff, and crushes up differently (behaving more like glass, whereas this cartel stuff is more shale-like, more fragile, and less glass-like). That said, this new stuff definitely contains more than 50% d-meth, because if this cartel crystal meth truly was 50:50 d-meth/l-meth (i.e., racemic meth), the crystals would look different. Racemic meth crystals would be white, completely opaque chunks, would not have any hint of clarity, and would be more nugget/ball-like in shape, rather than long shards.

So with regard to this mass produced cartel meth, it's unclear what proportion is actually l-methamphetamine, but based on physical presentation along, it's definitely less than half. I've read of long crystalline samples being up to something like 30% l-methamphetamine, so I'd say the cartel meth is at most 30% l-meth, though is probably less than that on average. Yet even if this new stuff is only say 8% l-meth on average, the problem is l-methamphetamine is a potent norepinephrine releasing agent, so if even small amounts of it are present it has the potential to significantly alter the experience (when compared to the effect of pseudoephedrine based d-meth).

I found that the difference between this new cartel crystal meth the good old d-meth is most notable when smoked. This is likely because the norepinephrine releasing properties of the small but active amounts of l-methamphetamine become immediately apparent. The same might be true when IV'd (haven't tried injecting this new stuff since I don't IV drugs anymore), however via the IV route you might be able to compensate for the l-meth by taking a large enough shot to leverage the serotonin releasing properties of high dose d-meth to offset the nastiness of the l-meth). But from my experience, this new meth is best when taken in large oral doses (like 100mg-200mg, for someone with low tolerance). A large oral dose smoothes out the rough edges of the l-meth by leveraging both the gradual onset of oral administration and as well as the calming/euphoric effects of the serotonin release that occurs at high doses. When taken this way it still doesn't feel the same as pure d-meth, but this route definitely feels way better than smoking it. The high from smoking this new stuff is almost non-existent, and is followed by a rapid comedown. I've even tried to smoke large amounts of it in a short period of time via a water pipe, and it still sucks. But a large oral dose, though not the same, is actually fairly enjoyable (though it feels hard on the body).

In anycase, surprisingly enough, this new shit actually is mostly d-methamphetamine, but contains enough l-meth (as well as potentially other active byproducts) to make the experience notably less enjoyable than pseudoephedrine derived d-meth (particularly when smoked, which i know is the preferred route for many). So, though they did a half assed job, the mexicans already removed a significant portion of the l-meth, and unless you have some aptitude with regard to chemistry and have experience working with reagents and performing basic procedures, removing the remaining l-meth isn't something the average person can do at home.

 

[tattooed Dude]

Er, well, I'm not going to get any mention in the latest organic chemistry books and Uncle Fester doesn't know who I am. But I have a few hours of garage Lab 101 under the belt and I have never blown up or turned a trailer in to an ashtray.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my inquiry. I value the knowledge and will apply it to future endeavors. But I'm not so sure if I applied myself to the task and had the right information I wouldn't succeed. Not that I would try it, my days of fun and exciting stupidity are over, but that's not stopping the youngsters and idiots from attempting the magic. This after all is harm reduction and what is the point if the information needed to do so, in any capacity, is kept from the people who are at risk of harm? I Just food for thought.

 

[charlz]

This might be how cartels do it (just on a much larger scale):

https://bbgate.com/media/d-methamphetamine-hydrochloride-synthesis-via-tartaric-acid.81/

 

[HesGone]

This may or may not be related to the d vs. l convo , but maybe someone has thoughts.

Recently picked up a small bag from a random on the street....lately in Canada its either l-meth and candle wax that burns into goop immediately, OR Grade AAAA old school shit. You never know, and I don't stay connected to the scene enough to have a steady source.

Anyway, this shit was neither. It instead tastes very diesel-y or like it was soaked in paint thinner or something. It's actually very potent and reacts nicely to heat. Decrystalizes almost immediately, and spreads itself very thin across the glass...but seems hard to actually burn. I didn't get anything that resembled shard, instead a very fine white powder with a couple of cloudy pebbles.

Probably worth sending off for testing, but in the meantime anyone have an idea on this gas stuff??

 

[snmfmy]

This may or may not be related to the d vs. l convo , but maybe someone has thoughts.

Recently picked up a small bag from a random on the street....lately in Canada its either l-meth and candle wax that burns into goop immediately, OR Grade AAAA old school shit. You never know, and I don't stay connected to the scene enough to have a steady source.

Anyway, this shit was neither. It instead tastes very diesel-y or like it was soaked in paint thinner or something. It's actually very potent and reacts nicely to heat. Decrystalizes almost immediately, and spreads itself very thin across the glass...but seems hard to actually burn. I didn't get anything that resembled shard, instead a very fine white powder with a couple of cloudy pebbles.

Probably worth sending off for testing, but in the meantime anyone have an idea on this gas stuff??

Eat some of it and see how long it gets you high.

I have reason to believe that this is a substituted aminorex analog or a substituted methcathinone.

Tastes like diesel. Not strong, just mild. Doesn't burn really much when you snort it.

If you can get a hold of Simon's reagent when you test it, it will not turn blue. It should if it's methamphetamine

 

[snmfmy]

This may or may not be related to the d vs. l convo , but maybe someone has thoughts.

Recently picked up a small bag from a random on the street....lately in Canada its either l-meth and candle wax that burns into goop immediately, OR Grade AAAA old school shit. You never know, and I don't stay connected to the scene enough to have a steady source.

Anyway, this shit was neither. It instead tastes very diesel-y or like it was soaked in paint thinner or something. It's actually very potent and reacts nicely to heat. Decrystalizes almost immediately, and spreads itself very thin across the glass...but seems hard to actually burn. I didn't get anything that resembled shard, instead a very fine white powder with a couple of cloudy pebbles.

Probably worth sending off for testing, but in the meantime anyone have an idea on this gas stuff??

@AlsoTapered

This is exactly what I was I believe exposed to even down to the burning and the powder and pebbles.

In Canada.

I don't live anywhere near canada.

 

[snmfmy]

Clean meth ain't easy to get these days. This new stuff that is being mass produced by the cartel is a 50/50 at best of L-meth and D-meth. So tartaric is used to remove the L-meth. How would someone go about doing that? If they have the Tartaric acid, what else is needed? And what is the process for doing this?

This is completely untrue.

I can post you DEA documentation that indicates current methamphetamine is 96+ % pure and 96+ %. D-Isomer methamphetamine.

The cartels have been able to resolve, re-raceimize, recycle since 2014 at the latest.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/DIR-008-21%25202020%2520National%2520Drug%2520Threat%2520Assessment_WEB.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjD_a3h_tGEAxXO4ckDHZPrBmoQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw18xb5zw-B_jYSUbYJhYt6Z

 

[AlsoTapered]

Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is apparently being used to cut methamphetamine.

But it's impossible to say with any certainty what a given material is actually composed of. without instrumental testing I think people have posted links to free testing services. You post a sample and a (large) random number and in the following weeks, the results appear on their website.

But one needs GC-MS and NMR to be sure.

The former will tentatively identify the major components of the sample. The latter will confirm the absolute structure of the main componant.

I will give you an example. Long ago a Chinese company was trying to sell the N-ethyl homologue of ketamine which was legal at the time. Now the GC-MS agreed with their formal specification BUT NMR uncovered the fact that the -Cl moiety was in the para (4) rather than the meta (2) position of the aromatic ring.

They even tried arguing that we were wrong so we sent them the NMR and explained why we were 100% certain that the -Cl was indeed in the para position. They still tried to sell it to us at a lower cost; we said no. Then the cheeky c*nts asked if we knew anyone who WOULD buy it.

Now I don't know if it was an intentional swindle of if they had been ripped off and just didn't know. I think the former because they were totally unfazed by the fact they were trying to sell a totally unknown compound.

So be under no illusions. The people who are making this stuff are only interested in making a profit.

But I am not prepared to just guess what something is - not when it's possible to confirm what it is.

 

[HesGone]

At the point where I'm splitting hairs on the physical structure and glassiness of shard...the most effective thing to do is probably take a break and let the Tolerance flatten out.

Anyway, here's Canada's mail-in testing and it seems like most of the cut (which isn't much) is Dimethyl Sulfone(?) and random bunk.

Test Results Archive - Get Your Drugs Tested

All drug analysis results from Get Your Drugs Tested.

getyourdrugstested.com

 

[snmfmy]

At the point where I'm splitting hairs on the physical structure and glassiness of shard...the most effective thing to do is probably take a break and let the Tolerance flatten out.

Anyway, here's Canada's mail-in testing and it seems like most of the cut (which isn't much) is Dimethyl Sulfone(?) and random bunk.

Test Results Archive - Get Your Drugs Tested

All drug analysis results from Get Your Drugs Tested.

getyourdrugstested.com

I believe that dimethyl sulfone is another name for methylsulfanomethane otherwise known as MSM the supplement you are supposedly to use for joint maintenance like your elbow joint, not your cannabis joint.